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Physikus
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:20 am
Guest
Hello,

see: http://eqf.homedns.org/

The service supplies for each place of the world earthquake forecasts
with very high accuracy. Look at simply times!

Greeting, Physikus

P.S. You must translate the site because it is a german site (you can
try http://babelfish.altavista.com, for example).
Physikus
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:36 pm
Guest
On 15 Apr., 23:22, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
Quote:
Physikus <physik...@gmx.net> writes:
Hello,

see:http://eqf.homedns.org/

The service supplies for each place of the world earthquake forecasts
with very high accuracy. Look at simply times!

An inspection of the site makes the claims seem highly unlikely. First
off, there is a claim of near 100% accuracy following "months-long
tests." Secondly, in spite of this incredible accuracy, there is a
major section filled with weasel words to explain why a given forecast
doesn't even come to pass.

Furthermore, I did not find the forecasts to be all that informative.
At least, I couldn't figure out what the forecast itself was saying.
There is some numeric and color-coded indication of potential, but no
real explanation of what that actually means. I also didn't see any
particular indication of the strength of the forecast earthquake. So
that would make it seem like any seismic activity at all could be
considered to be a hit.

There were some other minor technical nits, including some very
confusing information about the time zone used for the forecasts.

I find it hard to take this seriously.

--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute

Now, unfortunately my English is not very good. But I would like to
put something clear:
The service (http://eqf.)homedns.org /, uses a completely new
algorithm for the preparation of earthquake-potentials - at every time
and at each place of the world.
The type of the analysis of mechanisms, which earthquakes cause, is
unknown within the conventional physics up to now.
The service passes out probability-potentials, with what all prognoses
are met by real earthquakes precisely.
The service uses German local time (UTC+2) , as is declared.
Magnitudes the system doesn't predict (nobody can know in what way
earth's crusts are prestressed)!

(Hint: The translation of my German text took place 'Babylon with the
software.com', sorry.)

Physikus
Thomas A. Russ
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:22 pm
Guest
Physikus <physikus1@gmx.net> writes:

Quote:
Hello,

see: http://eqf.homedns.org/

The service supplies for each place of the world earthquake forecasts
with very high accuracy. Look at simply times!

An inspection of the site makes the claims seem highly unlikely. First
off, there is a claim of near 100% accuracy following "months-long
tests." Secondly, in spite of this incredible accuracy, there is a
major section filled with weasel words to explain why a given forecast
doesn't even come to pass.

Furthermore, I did not find the forecasts to be all that informative.
At least, I couldn't figure out what the forecast itself was saying.
There is some numeric and color-coded indication of potential, but no
real explanation of what that actually means. I also didn't see any
particular indication of the strength of the forecast earthquake. So
that would make it seem like any seismic activity at all could be
considered to be a hit.

There were some other minor technical nits, including some very
confusing information about the time zone used for the forecasts.

I find it hard to take this seriously.


--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute
Guest
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:50 pm
In article <81a21bd0-6b9b-4aa1-8716-c88757e9026b@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Physikus <physikus1@gmx.net> wrote:

Quote:
The service (http://eqf.)homedns.org /, uses a completely new
algorithm for the preparation of earthquake-potentials

And it uses a completely old method of fraud.
Skywise
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:54 pm
Guest
Physikus <physikus1@gmx.net> wrote in news:81a21bd0-6b9b-4aa1-8716-
c88757e9026b@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
The service passes out probability-potentials,

That's somewhat redundantly repeated.

But anyway, what we need are defined locations, defined time
frames, and defined magnitudes. Anything less is pretty much
useless.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Physikus
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:07 am
Guest
On 16 Apr., 04:54, Skywise <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:
Quote:
Physikus <physik...@gmx.net> wrote in news:81a21bd0-6b9b-4aa1-8716-
c88757e90...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

The service passes out probability-potentials,

That's somewhat redundantly repeated.

But anyway, what we need are defined locations, defined time
frames, and defined magnitudes. Anything less is pretty much
useless.

Brian
--http://www.skywise711.com- Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ:http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions":http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

The service provides both, as you can see, defined locations and
defined time frames. But nobody is able to predict the strongnes of
predicted EQs, because the parameters of the inner crust is unknown,
at all. Nevertheless the service shows, whereever and whenever a
danger occurs.

Physikus
Mike Williams
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:03 am
Guest
"Physikus" <physikus1@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:81a21bd0-6b9b-4aa1-8716-c88757e9026b@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
On 15 Apr., 23:22, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
Physikus <physik...@gmx.net> writes:
Hello,

see:http://eqf.homedns.org/

The service supplies for each place of the world earthquake forecasts
with very high accuracy. Look at simply times!

An inspection of the site makes the claims seem highly unlikely. First
off, there is a claim of near 100% accuracy following "months-long
tests." Secondly, in spite of this incredible accuracy, there is a
major section filled with weasel words to explain why a given forecast
doesn't even come to pass.

Furthermore, I did not find the forecasts to be all that informative.
At least, I couldn't figure out what the forecast itself was saying.
There is some numeric and color-coded indication of potential, but no
real explanation of what that actually means. I also didn't see any
particular indication of the strength of the forecast earthquake. So
that would make it seem like any seismic activity at all could be
considered to be a hit.

There were some other minor technical nits, including some very
confusing information about the time zone used for the forecasts.

I find it hard to take this seriously.

--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute

Now, unfortunately my English is not very good. But I would like to
put something clear:
The service (http://eqf.)homedns.org /, uses a completely new
algorithm for the preparation of earthquake-potentials - at every time
and at each place of the world.
The type of the analysis of mechanisms, which earthquakes cause, is
unknown within the conventional physics up to now.
The service passes out probability-potentials, with what all prognoses
are met by real earthquakes precisely.
The service uses German local time (UTC+2) , as is declared.
Magnitudes the system doesn't predict (nobody can know in what way
earth's crusts are prestressed)!

(Hint: The translation of my German text took place 'Babylon with the
software.com', sorry.)

Physikus

"The type of the analysis of mechanisms, which earthquakes cause, is
unknown within the conventional physics up to now."

What an incredibly archetypical netkook, pseudoscientific response!!

"Magnitudes the system doesn't predict (nobody can know in what way
earth's crusts are prestressed)!"

The three-legged stool of earthquake prediction quite simply, and
rationally, does not provide for the elimination of any of the individual
legs.

Mike Williams
Arroyo Grande, CA U.S.
Mike Williams
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:05 am
Guest
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:NTdNj.10654$_h7.10211@newsfe05.ams2...
Quote:
Physikus <physikus1@gmx.net> wrote in news:81a21bd0-6b9b-4aa1-8716-
c88757e9026b@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

The service passes out probability-potentials,

That's somewhat redundantly repeated.

But anyway, what we need are defined locations, defined time
frames, and defined magnitudes. Anything less is pretty much
useless.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"redundantly repeated" - such an extraordinarily exquisite recursive phrase!
Skywise
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:25 pm
Guest
Physikus <physikus1@gmx.net> wrote in news:49386887-a57a-46ee-9de2-
5ccbc92936e7@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
On 16 Apr., 04:54, Skywise <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:
Physikus <physik...@gmx.net> wrote in news:81a21bd0-6b9b-4aa1-8716-
c88757e90...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

The service passes out probability-potentials,

That's somewhat redundantly repeated.

But anyway, what we need are defined locations, defined time
frames, and defined magnitudes. Anything less is pretty much
useless.

Brian
--http://www.skywise711.com- Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ:http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions":http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

The service provides both, as you can see, defined locations and
defined time frames. But nobody is able to predict the strongnes of
predicted EQs, because the parameters of the inner crust is unknown,
at all. Nevertheless the service shows, whereever and whenever a
danger occurs.

So, you are saying you can predict an exact area and an exact time
frame, but the quake could be anything above -infinity?

FYI, there is a such thing as a magnitude zero earthquake. Negative
magnitudes, even. Such is the nature of the logarithmic scale. But,
admitedly, such quakes are not much more than breaking a rock with
a hammer.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Physikus
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:45 am
Guest
On 17 Apr., 05:25, Skywise <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:
Quote:
Physikus <physik...@gmx.net> wrote in news:49386887-a57a-46ee-9de2-
5ccbc9293...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
...
So, you are saying you can predict an exact area and an exact time
frame, but the quake could be anything above -infinity?
...

I say: Every real earthquake is shown (on the named side) with place
and time as an high-potential-event - before(!) it happens.

So, now you can also recherche and find each Earthquake as a
prediction, at the named side!

Physikus
Mike Williams
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:37 am
Guest
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:MqzNj.15204$_h7.14004@newsfe05.ams2...

<<<snip>>>

Quote:
FYI, there is a such thing as a magnitude zero earthquake. Negative
magnitudes, even. Such is the nature of the logarithmic scale. But,
admitedly, such quakes are not much more than breaking a rock with
a hammer.

Brian

I'm fairly sure that the existence of zero and negative magnitudes is not
due to "the nature of the logarithmic scale" so much as it is to Richter's
particular construction of his scale. He arranged the distance and the
amplitude of the largest displacement from zero on the Wood-Anderson
seismometer so that drawing a line between the two (amplitude being in the
middle), crossed the amplitude scale at an amplitude appropriate for
southern California.

For exceptionally small distances combined with exceptionally small
amplitudes, this resulted in zero or negative magnitudes.

I think I recall reading that a negative magnitude of, say, -1, was the
equivalent of a brick falling onto concrete from a height of something like
6 feet.

Elaborations or corrections from professionals (disclaimer - I am not a
professional) are welcome.

Mike Williams
Arroyo Grande, CA U.S.

Mike Williams
Thomas A. Russ
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:21 pm
Guest
Physikus <physikus1@gmx.net> writes:

Quote:

Now, unfortunately my English is not very good. But I would like to
put something clear:

Wenn's einfacher geht, kann es meinetwegen auch auf Deutsch sein.

Quote:
The service (http://eqf.)homedns.org /, uses a completely new
algorithm for the preparation of earthquake-potentials - at every time
and at each place of the world.
The type of the analysis of mechanisms, which earthquakes cause, is
unknown within the conventional physics up to now.

Do you wish to tell us what this new method is?
Wie funktioniert dieses Algorithmus?

Quote:
The service passes out probability-potentials, with what all prognoses
are met by real earthquakes precisely.

Alright, what is a probability-potential? I didn't understand that and
couldn't find any explanation on the web site or with the sample
results.

Also denn, was ist eigentlich ein Erdbebenwahrscheinlichkeitspotenial?
Was heisst es, wenn dieses Potenial erhoeht sein soll? Was sollte man
darunter verstehen?

And what constitutes a "real earthquake"? There are no size parameters
or bound that I could see. Without a minimum value it is hard to see
what use the forecasts are.

Und was soll man unter "real earthquake" verstehen? Soweit ich geshen
habe, ist da keinerlei anerkannten Groessenangabe (z.B. Richterskala),
kein mindestwert von Erdbebenstaerke. Insofern ist es schwer to
erkennen, was man aus einer Vorhersage machen soll, wenn man nicht weiss
ob das Erdbeben ueberhaupt spuerbar sei.

Perhaps you could explain the meaning of your results.
Server time: 17.04.2008 20:01:34 (April 17, 2008)

Time Long Lat Potential
Zeit (=UTC+2) Laenge Breite EWP An oder nahe bei Ort

20:09:49 -119.23 33.41 45 (white)
20:09:22 -119.23 34.64 573 (blue) Los.Angeles
20:09:22 -119.23 35.38 177 (green) Los.Angeles
20:09:49 -119.23 36.86 265 (green)
20:09:22 -119.51 34.89 573 (blue) Los.Angeles

So, what are the bounds on the time? Is it supposed to be exact to the
second? Is that the upper end of a time bound? What about the
geographic bounds. Does the earthquake have to happen exactly at the
location indicated, down to 0.01 degree?

Ist die angegebene Zeit exakt? Oder gibt es ein Interval um die
angegebened Zeit? Oder ist die Zeit der spaetesten Zeitpunkt von so
einem Interval, der mit der Verhersagezeit anfaengt? Und was ist mit
den geographischen Grenzen? Muss das Erdbeben genau an dem angegebenen
Ort stattfinden, genau bis zum 0,01 Grad?


And what is the meaning of the numbers under EWP? The only explanation
I found used the color coding to indicate:

* Weiss: Eine Erdbebengefahr ist indiziert!
* Gruen: Eine erhoehte Erdbebengefahr ist vorhanden!
* Blau: Ein Erdbeben wird zu mehr als 50% auftreten!
* Rot: Ein Erdbeben ist sehr wahrscheinlich!
* Dunkelrot: Ein Erdbeben ist aeusserst wahrscheinlich!

o White: A chance(danger) of earthquakes is indicated.
o Green: An elevated chance(danger) of earthquakes
o Blue: Greater than 50% chance of an earthquake occurring
o Red: An earthquake is very probable
o Dark red: An earthquake is extremely probable.

Those are really hard to actually evaluate. And in particular, none of
the results are exact in the sense that they only speak of probable
earthquakes. It is hard to see how this gets you to nearly 100%, when
clearly some of the forecasts themselves claim less than 50% likelihood.

Diese angaben sind natuerlich sehr schwer auszuwerten. Und keiner von
ihnen sind exakt, d.H. die Vorhersage spricht nur von erhoehter
Wahrscheinlichkeit. Wie ist es denn moeglich zu behaupten, dass diese
Methode 100% richtig ist, da die Vorhersagen selber oft wehniger als 50%
Wahrscheinlichkeit beinhalten.



--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute
Skywise
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:53 pm
Guest
"Mike Williams" <miklwlms@pacbell.net> wrote in news:a9KNj.848$ix6.609
@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net:

Quote:
Elaborations or corrections from professionals (disclaimer - I am not a
professional) are welcome.

You're explanation is certainly more detailed than mine. I was
simply applying the KISS principle.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Physikus
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:45 am
Guest
On 16 Apr., 18:03, "Mike Williams" <miklw...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Quote:
"Physikus" <physik...@gmx.net> wrote in message
...
What an incredibly archetypical netkook, pseudoscientific response!!

"Magnitudes the system doesn't predict (nobody can know in what way
earth's crusts are prestressed)!"

The three-legged stool of earthquake prediction quite simply, and
rationally, does not provide for the elimination of any of the individual
legs.

Mike Williams
Arroyo Grande, CA U.S.

"pseudoscientific" ?

Look:

1.
Found at 03:02 pm at http://eqf.homedns.org/ (Germany:UTC+2,
UTC=13:02):
15:02:14 19.15 51.350 8 1 1057 Polen (predicted)
Very close to the time when this happened:
2008-04-18 13:01:12.4 50.09 N 18.42 E 2 ML 2.3 POLAND
(Source: http://www.emsc-csem.org)

2.
Found at 12:35 pm at http://eqf.homedns.org/ (Germany:UTC+2,
UTC=10:35):
12:35:22 36.92 36.61 1 1 2 177 Türkei & (predicted)
12:35:48 36.92 36.37 1 1 3 177 Aleppo/Syrien (predicted)
Very close to the time when this happened:
2008-04-18 10:28:17.2 36.76 N 36.72 E 6 MD 3.3 TURKEY-SYRIA BORDER
REGION
(Source: http://www.emsc-csem.org)

Matching times & matching coordinates!

Physikus
Physikus
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:19 am
Guest
On 17 Apr., 20:21, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
Quote:
Physikus <physik...@gmx.net> writes:
...
--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute


Please let me answer in German:

Quote:
Also denn, was ist eigentlich ein Erdbebenwahrscheinlichkeitspotenial?
Was heisst es, wenn dieses Potenial erhoeht sein soll? Was sollte man
darunter verstehen?

Unter einem Erdbebenwahrscheinlichkeitspotential (EWP) verstehe ich
ein relatives Risiko bezüglich des Eintreffens eines Bebens.

Quote:
Und was soll man unter "real earthquake" verstehen? Soweit ich geshen
habe, ist da keinerlei anerkannten Groessenangabe (z.B. Richterskala),
kein mindestwert von Erdbebenstaerke. Insofern ist es schwer to
erkennen, was man aus einer Vorhersage machen soll, wenn man nicht weiss
ob das Erdbeben ueberhaupt spuerbar sei.

Die Voraussage bezieht sich auf das Aufkommen und Zusammenwirken
unterschiedlicher (Kräfte-) Faktoren zum selben Zeitpunkt, am selben
Ort. Hieraus wird das EWP (s.o.) abgeleitet.
Unter reale Erdbeben sind Beben gemeint, die tatsächlich - nach der
Vorhersage - stattfinden.
Magnituden werden dabei nicht vorhergesagt, da das System nicht wissen
kann, inwieweit die regionale Erdkruste vorgespannt ist; die Prognose
bezieht sich daher lediglich auf das regionale Vorhandensein Erdbeben-
auslösender Faktoren, zum vorausgesagten Zeitpunkt.

Quote:
Ist die angegebene Zeit exakt? Oder gibt es ein Interval um die
angegebened Zeit? Oder ist die Zeit der spaetesten Zeitpunkt von so
einem Interval, der mit der Verhersagezeit anfaengt? Und was ist mit
den geographischen Grenzen? Muss das Erdbeben genau an dem angegebenen
Ort stattfinden, genau bis zum 0,01 Grad?

Die Prognosen werden derzeit etwa alle 5-10 Minuten erstellt. Das
betreffende Event sollte sich innerhalb von +/- 0.00-3.00° (Länge &
Breite) und zeitlich innerhalb von +/-10 Minuten ereignen; genauer ist
das vorliegendende Kartenmaterial leider nicht (fast immer liegen die
Treffer aber innerhalb eines Intervalls von +/- 0.00-1.00° und +/- 4
Minuten).
Infolge der Kartenungenauigkeiten sind Grenzregionen etwas
problematisch: So kann z.B. eine Grenzkoordinate der Türkei-Syrien-
Grenze noch innerhalb der Türkei oder noch innerhalb Syriens
ausgegeben werden; an dieser Problematik wird jedoch intensiv
gearbeitet.
Gradangaben werden dennoch auf 2 Stellen hinter dem Komma ausgegeben,
da sie intern mit dieser Genauigkeit berechnet werden.

Quote:
Diese angaben sind natuerlich sehr schwer auszuwerten. Und keiner von
ihnen sind exakt, d.H. die Vorhersage spricht nur von erhoehter
Wahrscheinlichkeit. Wie ist es denn moeglich zu behaupten, dass diese
Methode 100% richtig ist, da die Vorhersagen selber oft wehniger als 50%
Wahrscheinlichkeit beinhalten.

Der EWP-Wert gibt die vom System errechnete zu erwartende Gesamtkraft
an, durch welche ein Beben regional getriggert werden kann.
Grundsätzlich werden nur dann Datensätze ausgegeben, wenn das System
ein erhöhtes Potential (>0) feststellt. Ist also der EWP-Wert >0, so
ist ein Beben grundsätzlich indiziert, unabhängig davon, wie hoch der
EWP-Wert ist; denn - wie schon erwähnt: man kann nicht wissen, ob die
Kruste auf die vorherrschenden Kräfte reagiert. Benötigt die regionale
Kruste als Triggerung nur wenig Kraft, genügt bereits ein kleiner EWP-
Wert - und umgekehrt.

Ich hoffe, alle Fragen zufriedenstellend beantwortet zu haben.

Da meine Englischkenntnisse für eine so ausführliche Antwort leider
nicht ausreichen, wäre es sehr nett, wenn jemand, der die deutsche
Sprache ausreichend beherrscht, wie offensichtlich Herr Russ (vielen
Dank für die zweisprachige Ausführung Ihrer Fragen!), meine Antwort
für alle übersetzen könnte. Hierfür vielen Dank im Voraus.

Physikus
 
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