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| Bill Ward |
 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:34 am |
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:36:09 -0400, Robert Adsett wrote:
Quote: In article <k0QMj.646$26.485@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Fred Kasner
says...
knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
There are two hurdles to a car that runs totally on Aquygen. One:
long- term impact on the engine. Will the water speed up rust or
corrosion over time? Two: figuring out a process to tank the gas for
distribution.
Absolute nonsense! It's Meyer's fantasy all over again. HHO indeed.
There aren't enough electrons available for a H to H bond and then
having one of the H atoms bond to an oxygem atom while still bonded to
another H atom. The implied structure would be H:H:O with two pairs of
electrons on the O atoms unbonded. This would require an H atom with
with two bond. Although you can get single electron bonds you can't
stuff extra electrons in to such a small atom as an H atom.
It's worse than that Fred, HHO in all references I've seen using the term
is referring to a stoichiometric mixture of H2 and O2. Imagine 'tanking'
that.
That's been done and reported on s.e.h. a few years ago. Michael Hannon
posted pictures of the damage done by a 5 gal(?) tank of a stoichiometric
mixture of H2 and O2 when it unexpectedly detonated from a flashback. He
apparently nearly lost a leg, as the ruptured casing flew past his knee,
superficially slicing it, then flew another hundred feet to bounce off a
neighbor's garage door.
His enthusiasm for Brown's gas was greatly diminished, and he went on to
other, safer, but still somewhat loony, schemes. He reappeared briefly a
couple of years ago, but we haven't heard from him since. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:31 am |
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On Apr 15, 12:34 am, Bill Ward <bw...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com> wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:36:09 -0400, Robert Adsett wrote:
In article <k0QMj.646$26....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Fred Kasner
says...
knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
There are two hurdles to a car that runs totally on Aquygen. One:
long- term impact on the engine. Will the water speed up rust or
corrosion over time? Two: figuring out a process to tank the gas for
distribution.
Absolute nonsense! It's Meyer's fantasy all over again. HHO indeed.
There aren't enough electrons available for a H to H bond and then
having one of the H atoms bond to an oxygem atom while still bonded to
another H atom. The implied structure would be H:H:O with two pairs of
electrons on the O atoms unbonded. This would require an H atom with
with two bond. Although you can get single electron bonds you can't
stuff extra electrons in to such a small atom as an H atom.
It's worse than that Fred, HHO in all references I've seen using the term
is referring to a stoichiometric mixture of H2 and O2. Imagine 'tanking'
that.
That's been done and reported on s.e.h. a few years ago. Michael Hannon
posted pictures of the damage done by a 5 gal(?) tank of a stoichiometric
mixture of H2 and O2 when it unexpectedly detonated from a flashback. He
apparently nearly lost a leg, as the ruptured casing flew past his knee,
superficially slicing it, then flew another hundred feet to bounce off a
neighbor's garage door.
His enthusiasm for Brown's gas was greatly diminished, and he went on to
other, safer, but still somewhat loony, schemes. He reappeared briefly a
couple of years ago, but we haven't heard from him since.
At least he did experiments that none of you blowhards do.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/browse_frm/thread/b2d35825ca454c44/713a85c2f36c9d51?lnk=gst&q=ohannon+browns+gas#713a85c2f36c9d51
There is a ton of stuff.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/search?q=ohannon+browns+gas&start=10&sa=N& |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:39 am |
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On Apr 15, 11:39 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
Bill Ward <bw...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com> wrote:
His enthusiasm for Brown's gas was greatly diminished, and he went on to
other, safer, but still somewhat loony, schemes. He reappeared briefly a
couple of years ago, but we haven't heard from him since.
At least he [Meyer] did experiments that none of you blowhards do.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/browse_frm/thread/...
Show me even ONE probably documented, measured and calibrated experiment Meyer EVER did.
Just ONE. Please ?
Graham
Why?
You'll call it lie.
Do what others have done.
Why didn't any of the "scientists" here ever ask Ted, a real
experimenter/scientist in Sweden about his results? Meyer spent much
time in Sweden and the UK.
JW corresponded with him and helpe other experimenters get started.
What did you guys do to help?
JW found out that it is based on very established science and older
technology.
JW corrresponded with the original poster and other experimenters who
left this flame pit and actually built cells.
What have any of you morons contributed?
Thanks to JW and those he has been in contact with all over the world
for over ten years, while you guys bad mouth him, "about a thousand"
pages of Meyer's engineering drawings have been shown to the people
capable of making his units.
You guys will never understand just what Meyer's "Cold process" of
molecular disasociation does until you really look at the "natural
water" molecule as having useful properties that assist in it's own
destruction once easily destabilized with high frequency high voltage
and "no appreciable current."
High frequency voltage in the RC circuit creates what Meyer called
"molecular ringing."
It just so happens when you do this using "natural" water as a
dielectric in a capacitor and you match the Inductance you get
dielectric breakdown.... ....bummer..........hahahaha.
Hint:
You ever seen the circuits used in metal plating?
Subject: Re: Stanley Meyer's Court Case
From: "Ted Zettergren" <ted.zettergren@swipnet.se>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:59:28 +0100
VERY GOOD Mr. Feiereisen
Take a copy of the tape fromx that trial and put it on the Real Player
so we all can listen to what really happened in the Court.
The most interesting is to hear what the WFC Expert Witnesses and
Electrical Engineer Mathias Johanson has to say.
The first part of the trial started on Thursday/Friday, 1/2 February
1996 before Judge William Corzine III at the Common Pleas Court,
Chillicothe, Ohio.
By the way. If you like to do some experiment, try this.
AT FIRST:
You must know the difference between a chemical reaction and a
nuclear reaction. A lot of people don't understand that but they like
to argue a lot in every NG on Internet.
In a chemical reaction you need a lot of current and some salt for
making the water conductive.
In a nuclear reaction you don't need any current at all, only high
voltage. How much current you need in a real application depends
on how clean your water is. As cleaner as better.
Stanley Meyers method's have NOTHING to do with chemical
reactions.
HOW TO?
As a guide, you need US Patent 4,936,961 ref. figure 1 to 3F.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=lLcjAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4,936,961
If you read something about magical frequencyis, forget that.
It works fine with 10KHz or something else if you preferred.
Use 50% duty cycle. BUT! the frequency will be doubled in the
step up circuit and that's the frequency the Water-Cell will work
with. The components must resist at least 2000V.
The Water-Cell is very simple. Take a lot of stainless steel tubes
with the inner diameter of the bigger tube 3mm bigger than the outer
diameter of the inner tube. From now you must look at this
Water-Cell as a capacitor with water as dilectricum.
The Water-Cell and the INDUCTOR will resonate at a specific
frequency. It's a normal RC-circuit.
Now the most important: The Water-Cell/Inductor frequency and
the doubled frequency from the generator must be exactly the
same. A special condition exists in a L/C Circuit, when it is
energized at a frequency at which the inductive reactance is equal
to the capacitive reactance, XL = XC.
Adjust the voltage peak level to reach a maximum hydrogen/oxygen
producing with a minimum of current using. If you earlier make
hydrogen with the electrolysis method with a lot of current,
this experiment will really surprise you.
For even less current you can make some experiment with a
centertapped puls-transformer.
Have a nice trip to Ohio!
Ted! |
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| Don Lancaster |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:38 am |
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Eeyore wrote:
Quote:
knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Fred Kasner <fkas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There isn't any dumb theory that JW will swallow and repeat on line.
Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
But we know you DO !
You're SO gullible.
Graham
Few people realize that the word "gullible" does not appear in any major
dictionary or spell checker.
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:08 pm |
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Don Lancaster wrote:
Quote: Eeyore wrote:
knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Fred Kasner <fkas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There isn't any dumb theory that JW will swallow and repeat on line.
Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
But we know you DO !
You're SO gullible.
Few people realize that the word "gullible" does not appear in any major
dictionary or spell checker.
That one's getting a bit stale now Don.
Graham |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:19 pm |
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On Apr 15, 3:03 pm, Fred Kasner <fkas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
Only time will tell what Klien is or is not doing.
Why don't YOU CALL HIM and take him to task over HIS WORK.
I am not his whipping boy for you so FUCK OFF.
You certainly have covered yourself with something (probably not glory)
with your descent into foul vulgarities. Your attempt to evade
responsibility for the nonsense you quote is typical of your history.
You want some credit for posting stuff but when it clearly is nonsense.
If so then you have to accept the approbation when it is nonsense. If
you had not posted the nonsense you would not be the object of the
scorn, save had you pointed out that it violates a well tested law of
chemistry that H can make but one bond.
FK
Don't you listen?
Again.
Take it up with the inventor at:
http://www.hytechapps.com |
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| Don Lancaster |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:20 pm |
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Eeyore wrote:
Quote:
Don Lancaster wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Fred Kasner <fkas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There isn't any dumb theory that JW will swallow and repeat on line.
Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
But we know you DO !
You're SO gullible.
Few people realize that the word "gullible" does not appear in any major
dictionary or spell checker.
That one's getting a bit stale now Don.
Graham
Not nearly as stale as Aquagen and Meyer.
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:47 pm |
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Guest
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Don Lancaster wrote:
Quote: Eeyore wrote:
Don Lancaster wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Fred Kasner <fkas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There isn't any dumb theory that JW will swallow and repeat on line.
Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
But we know you DO !
You're SO gullible.
Few people realize that the word "gullible" does not appear in any major
dictionary or spell checker.
That one's getting a bit stale now Don.
Not nearly as stale as Aquagen and Meyer.
What is it they say ? "The old ones are the best ones" ? It looks like it's
got plenty of miles left in it yet. As long as Americans remain somewhat
uneducated and gullible (and believe in conspiracy theories) it'll go on
forever. You see NO interest in daft ideas like this in Europe or Asia btw.
Now, when are you going to structure your website better ? I'm sure there's
loads of good stuff there utterly overwhelmed by poor presentation.
Graham |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:39 pm |
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knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Show me even ONE probably documented, measured and calibrated experiment Meyer EVER did.
Just ONE. Please ?
Graham |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:40 pm |
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| Fred Kasner |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:03 pm |
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Quote:
Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
Only time will tell what Klien is or is not doing.
Why don't YOU CALL HIM and take him to task over HIS WORK.
I am not his whipping boy for you so FUCK OFF.
You certainly have covered yourself with something (probably not glory)
with your descent into foul vulgarities. Your attempt to evade
responsibility for the nonsense you quote is typical of your history.
You want some credit for posting stuff but when it clearly is nonsense.
If so then you have to accept the approbation when it is nonsense. If
you had not posted the nonsense you would not be the object of the
scorn, save had you pointed out that it violates a well tested law of
chemistry that H can make but one bond.
FK |
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| Eric Gisin |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:45 pm |
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<knews4u2chew@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27136240-c719-44bc-8f40-d8daa9c90799@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
They claim to have a HHO welding product, but that has been debunked too.
By kobzikov "
Not to be a naysayer or anything, but most likely this is a scam.
First of all, the news story that declared water to be the fuel is misleading at best and that is
pretty clear on its face value. It's gas that was produced from electrolysis that's the fuel. Gas
that shares a striking similarity with Brown's gas that has been thoroughly debunked as both energy
efficient fuel source and a competitive industrial welding technology.
Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen_flame
for background information and
http://www.phact.org/e/bgas.htm
for pretty thorough debunking of Brown's gas.
You can find more on the thread on
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=56705
It's bad enough we aren't told how much energy is needed for electrolysis to produce the gas, but
even worse the claim that water can be split into hydrogen and oxygen form and recombined into
water without energy loss seems to violate 2nd law of thermodynamics.
" |
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| Eric Gisin |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:57 pm |
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I was googling to find out if they have connections to Scientology, but found nothing.
I did find this 2.5 year old article. Check the comments:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1529266/posts
CLEARWATER -- Denny Klein thinks he has found a new commercial use for hydrogen technology.
Working in a small, two-room shop at the Airport Business Center, Klein, 63, said he has developed
a gas that speeds welding and fusing times and improves automobile fuel efficiency 30 percent.
Although the technology Klein uses -- electrolysis -- has been around for decades, he said it's the
form of gas that comes out of his electrolyzer and the characteristics of the gas that set his
hydrogen technology apart.
Klein's gas is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Sound familiar? Yep, it's water.
Electrolysis is a process that uses an electrical charge in water to separate the hydrogen from the
oxygen. But coming out of Klein's gas generator, the H2O 1500 electrolyzer, it's not water, he
said. Klein, president of Hydrogen Technology Applications Inc., calls it HHO, or the brand name
Aquygen.
"You get a huge energy response," Klein said. "But this gas is very, very safe."
Klein -- who employs eight people, four in Florida, three who handle licensing out of Kentucky and
his son, Greg, in Ohio -- is no engineer. The Ohio native attended Ohio State University and
Capital University in Columbus, Ohio, for business administration.
His aptitude in hydrogen technology came from self-study. He has worked alongside engineers in
whirlpool spa and suntanning businesses, and says he has six employees with doctorates on his
advisory board.
Klein said he has a patent pending on the gas he has been working on for 12 years. Various models
of his H2O electrolyzers are being used across the country in high school shop classes and
undergoing testing to be certified for use in welding shops.
Flipping a switch on his H2O 1500, Klein picks up a hose with a metal tip, creates a spark, and
instantly a blue and white glowing stream shoots out of the metal tip.
He holds the tip with his fingers to prove how cool it is to the touch, unlike such a tip when
oxy-acetylene is burned for welding. But the instant he sets the flame on a charcoal briquette, it
glows bright orange. Then, within seconds, he burns a hole through a brick, cuts steel and melts
Tungsten.
The temperature of the flame is 259 degrees Fahrenheit. But it instantaneously rises to the melting
temperature of whatever it touches, Klein said. Those temperatures can exceed 10,000 degrees
Fahrenheit.
"You can't do this with any other gas," he said.
Klein also has outfitted a 1994 Ford Escort station wagon with a smaller electrolyzer that injects
his HHO into the gasoline in the car's engine. He said he has increased his mileage per gallon by
30 percent.
That also is undergoing testing from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and other private
motorsports companies, Klein said.
Klein said he has 19 projects in the works.
Ali T-Raissi, director of the hydrogen research and development division of the Florida Solar
Energy Center, said he is not familiar with Klein's HHO or electrolyzer. But he said applying
hydrogen technology in that way comes at a price.
T-Raissi said mixing the hydrogen with gasoline will require a change in the typical car engine.
And creating the gas requires electricity, which comes at a cost.
"You can increase your mileage performance, but you have to ask: Am I still ahead, or am I behind?"
Klein said his formulation of hydrogen doesn't require altering an engine. And his electrolyzer
cost about 70 cents an hour to operate, which he considers a bargain.
Klein said his method for introducing hydrogen into a vehicle to increase mileage is superior to
hydrogen used in fuel cells.
One of the biggest challenges facing hydrogen fuel cells is storing the gas. To meet today's
driving requirements, it would take a lot more hydrogen than can now be stored safely in a vehicle.
Klein's HHO is made on-demand and mixed directly with the gasoline in the engine at slightly more
pressure than is currently there.
He said he plans to take Hydrogen Technology, which now has private investors, public in the first
half of 2006. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:57 pm |
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On Apr 15, 11:39 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
Bill Ward <bw...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com> wrote:
His enthusiasm for Brown's gas was greatly diminished, and he went on to
other, safer, but still somewhat loony, schemes. He reappeared briefly a
couple of years ago, but we haven't heard from him since.
Note added text by loser poster trying to obfuscate the issue.
Quote: At least he XXX[Meyer]XXX did experiments that none of you blowhards do.
XXX[Meyer]XXX <--- What's this crap.
Why are you putting Meyer's name with Brown's gas.
The discussion was about Ohannon.
You slimey loser.
Quote: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/browse_frm/thread/...
Show me even ONE probably documented, measured and calibrated experiment Meyer EVER did.
Just ONE. Please ?
Graham
Do your own.
Get your own data.
You've been shown how to build a basic circuit that demonstrates the
art of "Electrical Polarization."
Measure your own "funky wave forms" and blame the meter.
Watch the step charging of the water capacitor.
Do anything but your own experiment. |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:43 am |
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knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote: On Apr 15, 3:03 pm, Fred Kasner <fkas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Again you KING Dumb Shit assume I believe one word in the article.
Only time will tell what Klien is or is not doing.
Why don't YOU CALL HIM and take him to task over HIS WORK.
I am not his whipping boy for you so FUCK OFF.
You certainly have covered yourself with something (probably not glory)
with your descent into foul vulgarities. Your attempt to evade
responsibility for the nonsense you quote is typical of your history.
You want some credit for posting stuff but when it clearly is nonsense.
If so then you have to accept the approbation when it is nonsense. If
you had not posted the nonsense you would not be the object of the
scorn, save had you pointed out that it violates a well tested law of
chemistry that H can make but one bond.
FK
Don't you listen?
Again.
Take it up with the inventor at:
http://www.hytechapps.com
NO !
Why don't YOU stop posting unscientific ga-ga nonsense ?
Graham |
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