On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:

There's a newsgroup for discussing Usenet abuse:
news.admin.net-abuse.usenet> .

Its charter can be found here:
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/nana/charter/nanau.html> .

I recently read about the Usenet Death Penalty (or UDP) in the Wikipedia
article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty> .

In January 2000, ISP @Home got a UDP notice:

http://groups.google.com.au/group/news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins/msg/b9e534da452e7bc5
.

Actually, before the UDP came into effect, @Home asked for an extension
and cracked down on spammers. The planned UDP sanction was soon lifted.

Time Google Groups get's a UDP.
When is it going to happen?
Who can get it to happen?

William Elliot wrote:

I think it's still time to complain to Google. You can call Google and
leave a voice mail message for someone if you know the first letters of
their last name.

To find the names and positions of people at Google, you can use Google.

In the case of @Home, it was said that 10% of subscribers used Usenet;
those posters from @Home that used Usenet but were good netizens
sometimes felt that the news admins. behind the UDP were acting
irresponsibly, were autocratic or power hungry, etc.

So is Google. Ever since Google was sold on the public stock market, it's

I'm not sure people at Google realize how they're antagonizing say 5 to
10% of people with Internet access in the US, Canada, UK, Australia and
many other places I didn't mention. From their blogs, they seem focused
on new developments. Google bid for spectrum in a big FCC auction.

This was a big deal because it's to be allocated to wireless devices and
the radio and long microwave spectrum is already very crowded. So it
costs a lot to get a small spot on the spectrum map. They also seem
focused on internationalization, Web applications, enhancing Gmail,
CPSAN on Youtube, charitable activities and a multitude of other things.

Another cursed monopoly. First Microsoft and now Google, companies who

news.admin.net-abuse.usenet > : this is a good place to
learn how Usenet administration works, as far as abuse
of Usenet is concerned.

Damn it, I want to do math while on the web.

Around the time of UDP notices, discussions get quite heated. Before
UDP's, the nanau regulars get in touch with the ISP in trouble.
Lots of spam stats. are posted periodically.
A news-server admin at ISP XYZ can decide to ignore a UDP and pass on
the targeted traffic.

UDP, Usenet Death Policy to Google Gooslers.

I figure the UDP notices are generally observed, since Usenet experts
pass on their knowledge to others, and there is some sort of news-server
admin. community built on trust, reputation and so on.

Do they have any clout? Enough not to get swindled our of responsibility

Here's a link to a thread from Jan. 2000, around the time of the @Home
problem:

http://groups.google.com/group/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet/browse_thread/thread/740c645548f70424/7bd92bff18fbee24?#7bd92bff18fbee24


David Bernier

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:
William Elliot wrote:

I think it's still time to complain to Google. You can call Google and
leave a voice mail message for someone if you know the first letters of
their last name.

Who else do you suggest I frustrate myself with by calling and asking for
them to get it right? President Bush? CEO policy makers? Answering
system designers? You can't even call and talk to the offending culprit.

Anyway, how was it with you when you call?
I left a voice mail saying that Usenet users were not happy

the magic buttons to push or if instead cursed by the convince of a voice
activated system, the magic words to speak?

867-5309

To find the names and positions of people at Google, you can use Google.

In the case of @Home, it was said that 10% of subscribers used Usenet;
those posters from @Home that used Usenet but were good netizens
sometimes felt that the news admins. behind the UDP were acting
irresponsibly, were autocratic or power hungry, etc.

So is Google. Ever since Google was sold on the public stock market, it's
become worse and worse and more and more obnoxious, even contracting with
the government for data mining of US citizens. It's usefulness has
declined to where I've been removing my book marks to Google web sites.
In frustration with Google, I been using Yahoo web search and am
considering changing my last Google book mark to Yahoo web search.

I'm not sure people at Google realize how they're antagonizing say 5 to
10% of people with Internet access in the US, Canada, UK, Australia and
many other places I didn't mention. From their blogs, they seem focused
on new developments. Google bid for spectrum in a big FCC auction.

Do they give a damn?

This was a big deal because it's to be allocated to wireless devices and
the radio and long microwave spectrum is already very crowded. So it
costs a lot to get a small spot on the spectrum map. They also seem
focused on internationalization, Web applications, enhancing Gmail,
CPSAN on Youtube, charitable activities and a multitude of other things.

Another cursed monopoly. First Microsoft and now Google, companies who

design their prod-dicks to fuck us into forking over lots of our money for
their inferior service.

news.admin.net-abuse.usenet> : this is a good place to
learn how Usenet administration works, as far as abuse
of Usenet is concerned.

Damn it, I want to do math while on the web.
I don't want to have to pull weeds.

Around the time of UDP notices, discussions get quite heated. Before
UDP's, the nanau regulars get in touch with the ISP in trouble.
Lots of spam stats. are posted periodically.
A news-server admin at ISP XYZ can decide to ignore a UDP and pass on
the targeted traffic.

UDP, Usenet Death Policy to Google Gooslers.

I figure the UDP notices are generally observed, since Usenet experts
pass on their knowledge to others, and there is some sort of news-server
admin. community built on trust, reputation and so on.

Do they have any clout? Enough not to get swindled our of responsibility
when taking on multi-billion dollar coruptarations?

Here's a link to a thread from Jan. 2000, around the time of the @Home
problem:

http://groups.google.com/group/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet/browse_thread/thread/740c645548f70424/7bd92bff18fbee24?#7bd92bff18fbee24


David Bernier

William Elliot wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:
William Elliot wrote:

I think it's still time to complain to Google. You can call Google and
leave a voice mail message for someone if you know the first letters of
their last name.

Who else do you suggest I frustrate myself with by calling and asking for
them to get it right? President Bush? CEO policy makers? Answering
system designers? You can't even call and talk to the offending culprit.

Maybe just reading nanau and Google blogs?

I don't blog. I usenet news groups.

Anyway, how was it with you when you call?
I left a voice mail saying that Usenet users were not happy
with google-spam.

Too milk toast. More and more Usenet users hate you and are blocking all

What's the number and what's
the magic buttons to push or if instead cursed by the convince of a voice
activated system, the magic words to speak?

867-5309 :)

Area code? Why the grin? Is it a sinister grin?

Do they give a damn?

Who inside Google knows?, who decides?, etc

Who knows? It's a research project just to find out.

Another cursed monopoly. First Microsoft and now Google, companies who

If you know of stories or studies that Google is a bully or a
monopoly or is part of a cartel (like Microsoft and all it's
trials about unfair business practices), please let me know...
Microsoft's bullying and all the rest is legendary.

Just you wait. The blogs will suck traffic out of news

news.admin.net-abuse.usenet> : this is a good place to
learn how Usenet administration works, as far as abuse
of Usenet is concerned.

Damn it, I want to do math while on the web.
I don't want to have to pull weeds.

If you plant a seed of sense, or how you really feel, in nanau, it's a
start. Sequoias start out small ...

What do you think I'm doing here?

UDP, Usenet Death Policy to Google Gooslers.

I figure the UDP notices are generally observed, since Usenet experts
pass on their knowledge to others, and there is some sort of news-server
admin. community built on trust, reputation and so on.

Do they have any clout? Enough not to get swindled our of responsibility
when taking on multi-billion dollar coruptarations?

Yes. Because they accumulate facts, evidence, make suggestions
to the ISP in trouble. But Google (stock symbol GOOG) is the
one ton gorilla.

Can UDP stop King Kong?

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, it was written:

   Thanks for that, particularly the bearware link, which I hadn't
seen before. I'm on the point of installing newsproxy to filter out
googlegroup posts. I take it exemptions are compatible with a blanket
googlegroups exclusion. Assuming that, I was wondering if anybody would
volunteer a list of genuine regular posters to sci.math using google
groups. It probably seems like asking someone to do my work for me, but as
more of an occasional than thorough reader it would probably take me some
time to do.

Other than playing the game of ever changing key spam words, like 'nude',
'paypal', etc, which I'm doing because of time limitatons filtering out
all Google groups posts, you can mark all the Google group posts and in
that way find the significant Google group posters.  After that, then the
full block can occure.  I suggest you post notice that you too are about
to join the Google groups blocade boycott and before you do, offer
opportunity for readers to request that they individually not be blocked.
What I have upon the say so of others is.

        Pubkeybreaker <pubkeybrea...@aol.com
        jankri...@hotmail.com
        Derek Holt <ma...@warwick.ac.uk
        isr...@math.ubc.ca
        Randy Poe <poespam-t...@yahoo.com

If you find others, let me know.

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:
William Elliot wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:
William Elliot wrote:
I think it's still time to complain to Google. You can call Google and
leave a voice mail message for someone if you know the first letters of
their last name.
Who else do you suggest I frustrate myself with by calling and asking for
them to get it right? President Bush? CEO policy makers? Answering
system designers? You can't even call and talk to the offending culprit.
Maybe just reading nanau and Google blogs?

I don't blog. I usenet news groups.

Anyway, how was it with you when you call?
I left a voice mail saying that Usenet users were not happy
with google-spam.

Too milk toast. More and more Usenet users hate you and are blocking all
posts from Google Goosing groups. Go jump in a lake. Tell them that.

What's the number and what's
the magic buttons to push or if instead cursed by the convince of a voice
activated system, the magic words to speak?

867-5309 :)

Area code? Why the grin? Is it a sinister grin?

Do they give a damn?
Who inside Google knows?, who decides?, etc

Who knows? It's a research project just to find out.

Another cursed monopoly. First Microsoft and now Google, companies who
If you know of stories or studies that Google is a bully or a
monopoly or is part of a cartel (like Microsoft and all it's
trials about unfair business practices), please let me know...
Microsoft's bullying and all the rest is legendary.

Just you wait. The blogs will suck traffic out of news
groups like newsgroups sucked traffic out of Fidonet.

news.admin.net-abuse.usenet> : this is a good place to
learn how Usenet administration works, as far as abuse
of Usenet is concerned.

Damn it, I want to do math while on the web.
I don't want to have to pull weeds.
If you plant a seed of sense, or how you really feel, in nanau, it's a
start. Sequoias start out small ...

What do you think I'm doing here?

UDP, Usenet Death Policy to Google Gooslers.

I figure the UDP notices are generally observed, since Usenet experts
pass on their knowledge to others, and there is some sort of news-server
admin. community built on trust, reputation and so on.

Do they have any clout? Enough not to get swindled our of responsibility
when taking on multi-billion dollar coruptarations?
Yes. Because they accumulate facts, evidence, make suggestions
to the ISP in trouble. But Google (stock symbol GOOG) is the
one ton gorilla.

Can UDP stop King Kong?

William Elliot wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:
William Elliot wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008, David Bernier wrote:
William Elliot wrote:
I think it's still time to complain to Google. You can call Google and
leave a voice mail message for someone if you know the first letters of
their last name.
Who else do you suggest I frustrate myself with by calling and asking for
them to get it right? President Bush? CEO policy makers? Answering
system designers? You can't even call and talk to the offending culprit.
Maybe just reading nanau and Google blogs?

I don't blog. I usenet news groups.

Anyway, how was it with you when you call?
I left a voice mail saying that Usenet users were not happy
with google-spam.

Too milk toast. More and more Usenet users hate you and are blocking all
posts from Google Goosing groups. Go jump in a lake. Tell them that.

The real Google number is:
650-253-0000

cf.:
http://www.google.com/contact/index.html


Google management:
http://www.google.com/intl/en/corporate/execs.html

What's the number and what's
the magic buttons to push or if instead cursed by the convince of a voice
activated system, the magic words to speak?

867-5309 :)

Area code? Why the grin? Is it a sinister grin? ;-)

j/k

Cf.:
Jenny (867-5309) [a pop song from some years ago]
at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUPApCUt90

Do they give a damn?
Who inside Google knows?, who decides?, etc

Who knows? It's a research project just to find out.

Exactly. For those on the outside of Google, at any rate.

Another cursed monopoly. First Microsoft and now Google, companies who
If you know of stories or studies that Google is a bully or a
monopoly or is part of a cartel (like Microsoft and all it's
trials about unfair business practices), please let me know...
Microsoft's bullying and all the rest is legendary.

Just you wait. The blogs will suck traffic out of news
groups like newsgroups sucked traffic out of Fidonet.

It could be. I much prefer reading Usenet news with software
connected to a news-server.

news.admin.net-abuse.usenet> : this is a good place to
learn how Usenet administration works, as far as abuse
of Usenet is concerned.

Damn it, I want to do math while on the web.
I don't want to have to pull weeds.
If you plant a seed of sense, or how you really feel, in nanau, it's a
start. Sequoias start out small ...

What do you think I'm doing here?


Working to try to change things. My only comment is
what you and I write here won't go to sci.electronic.design,
rec.woodworking or other newsgroups infested with
google-spam. I've added the NG < news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
as X-Post because google-spam is on topic there.


UDP, Usenet Death Policy to Google Gooslers.

I figure the UDP notices are generally observed, since Usenet experts
pass on their knowledge to others, and there is some sort of news-server
admin. community built on trust, reputation and so on.

Do they have any clout? Enough not to get swindled our of responsibility
when taking on multi-billion dollar coruptarations?
Yes. Because they accumulate facts, evidence, make suggestions
to the ISP in trouble. But Google (stock symbol GOOG) is the
one ton gorilla.

Can UDP stop King Kong?


UDP is used as a last resort, I think. It's a bit like politics, perhaps.
Used too early, maybe it can backfire because those who use
the UDP'd ISP (or Usenet SP) will be unhappy and a strong proof of
patent dereliction of duty on the part of the ISP/USP will make the
pill easier to swallow.

When is the last time that a UDP actually accomplished anything
useful?

Just you wait. The blogs will suck traffic out of news
groups like newsgroups sucked traffic out of Fidonet.

Who do I complain to? Where are the email addresses?

look at the header of any posting from google groups.

William Elliot wrote:

I think it's still time to complain to Google. You can call Google and
leave a voice mail message for someone if you know the first letters of
their last name.

Anyway, how was it with you when you call?
I left a voice mail saying that Usenet users were not happy
with google-spam.

Too milk toast. More and more Usenet users hate you and are blocking all
posts from Google Goosing groups. Go jump in a lake. Tell them that.

The real Google number is:
650-253-0000

cf.:
http://www.google.com/contact/index.html

Contact who? Another of those huge web sites requiring a research project

Google management:
http://www.google.com/intl/en/corporate/execs.html

Who do I complain to? Where are the email addresses?

What's the number and what's
the magic buttons to push or if instead cursed by the convince of a voice
activated system, the magic words to speak?

867-5309 :)

Cf.:
Jenny (867-5309) [a pop song from some years ago]
at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUPApCUt90

Huh? No area code. What's this got to do with anything.

Do they give a damn?
Who inside Google knows?, who decides?, etc

Who knows? It's a research project just to find out.

Exactly. For those on the outside of Google, at any rate.

Those who are responsible for corporate sins insulate themselves from

Another cursed monopoly. First Microsoft and now Google, companies who
If you know of stories or studies that Google is a bully or a
monopoly or is part of a cartel (like Microsoft and all it's
trials about unfair business practices), please let me know...
Microsoft's bullying and all the rest is legendary.

Just you wait. The blogs will suck traffic out of news
groups like newsgroups sucked traffic out of Fidonet.

It could be. I much prefer reading Usenet news with software
connected to a news-server.

Blogs are terrible. But it has one advantage. Instead of being

If you plant a seed of sense, or how you really feel, in nanau, it's
a start. Sequoias start out small ...

What do you think I'm doing here?

Working to try to change things. My only comment is
what you and I write here won't go to sci.electronic.design,
rec.woodworking or other newsgroups infested with
google-spam. I've added the NG < news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
as X-Post because google-spam is on topic there.

You are at liberty to post our comments, to cross post our discussion to

UDP is used as a last resort, I think. It's a bit like politics,
perhaps. Used too early, maybe it can backfire because those who use the
UDP'd ISP (or Usenet SP) will be unhappy and a strong proof of patent
dereliction of duty on the part of the ISP/USP will make the pill easier
to swallow.

Some people will only listen if you hit them over the head with a two by

I don't blog. I usenet news groups.

William Elliot wrote:

I don't blog. I usenet news groups.

"Verbing weirds language."

Poetic license, a licentious license.

http://www.transmogrifier.org/ch-img/ch930125.gif

Sorry, my software looks .gif horses in the mouth.

AFAIK you have to use the web form for Google to do anything about it.

So, seek and ye shall find. Look at the header and you will see where to
complain in most cases. Also, in the above case, you can use samspade.org
and look up the registration on 116.71.16.28, the source of the above
spam. You can then do a whois -h whois.abuse.net spammersDNS
to find the abuse address for the spammer's ISP.

It takes about 30 seconds to look up all this stuff and fire off an e-mail
complaint to groups-abuse@google and the abuse address for the spammer's
isp.