"Alec Kojaev" <AlecKojaev@excite.com> wrote...
James Silverton wrote:

Just an ignorant question; does Latvian hold the record for number of
cases or are there languages with more?

Of those that I know of, Finnish has fifteen, Estonian fourteen.
There may be much more elaborate systems. A cursory glance at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases> makes me
shudder.

Chantyal has 23 cases, which may well be the record. Interestingly, the
other Bodic languages (including closely related Nar-Phu and Tamang)
have only about five or six. Classical Tibetan has seven.

John.

Maybe not a "considerable" variation, but how about
singular "us"? My experience is that it doesn't occur in
some (all?) USan dialects.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:28:49 GMT, John Atkinson
johnacko@bigpond.com> wrote in
sci.lang,uk.people.parents,alt.usage.english:

[...]

Maybe not a "considerable" variation, but how about
singular "us"? My experience is that it doesn't occur in
some (all?) USan dialects.

As in 'Give us a kiss, love', for instance? Not U.S. in my
experience.

But I don't really know the origins of "Hallelujah, I'm a Bum".

A long time before I could understand much Spanish I could recognize
within two or three words if a Spanish person appeared on TV in Chile,
long before the first word with a z in it appeared. Even now, though, I
don't immediately recognize an Argentinian accent, though most Chilean
people say they are completely obvious. My wife reckons she can
recognize Argentinians without hearing a word. Years ago we were in a
train in China and there was a group of obviously non-Chinese people at
the far end of the carriage, far out of earshot, and she said "they're
Argentinian". When I said "how can you possibly tell?" she said "they
move like Argentinians".

Anyway, she walked down to listen to them and
reported that they were indeed Argentinian.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:42:28 +0000 in
8wDPj.4238$ko5.888@news-server.bigpond.net.au, John Atkinson wrote:

"Alec Kojaev" <AlecKojaev@excite.com> wrote...
James Silverton wrote:

Just an ignorant question; does Latvian hold the record for number of
cases or are there languages with more?

Of those that I know of, Finnish has fifteen, Estonian fourteen.
There may be much more elaborate systems. A cursory glance at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases> makes me
shudder.

Chantyal has 23 cases, which may well be the record. Interestingly, the
other Bodic languages (including closely related Nar-Phu and Tamang)
have only about five or six. Classical Tibetan has seven.

John.

Hah! I see your 23 and raise you 42 (or 64, or even 126 by other
counts): Tsez (Dido) language, Northeast Caucasian family. Huge number of
locatives for various positions and directions, plus eight syntactic
cases.

But I don't really know the origins of "Hallelujah, I'm a Bum".

"Hallelujah, give us a handout to revive us again".
Twice in the same sentence, but the singer is singularly emphatic.

"Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbc.com> writes:

But I don't really know the origins of "Hallelujah, I'm a Bum".

According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallelujah,_I'm_a_Bum

it's American, possibly written by Harry McClintock in 1897.

"Hallelujah, give us a handout to revive us again".
Twice in the same sentence, but the singer is singularly emphatic.

It's not clear that he's emphatically singular there, though.
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article also quotes a New Christy
Minstrels version, in which it's changed to "gimme".

The article also gives a clue to the line though, by saying

Sung to the tune of "Revive Us Again", the song was printed by
the Industrial Workers of the World in 1908, and adopted by its
Spokane branch as their anthem later that year. The success of
their free speech campaign of 1909 led to its widespread
popularity.

If that's true, the "revive us again" may just have been lifted from
the lyrics to an earlier song.

"Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbc.com> writes:

But I don't really know the origins of "Hallelujah, I'm a Bum".

According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallelujah,_I'm_a_Bum

it's American, possibly written by Harry McClintock in 1897.

"Hallelujah, give us a handout to revive us again".
Twice in the same sentence, but the singer is singularly emphatic.

It's not clear that he's emphatically singular there, though.
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article also quotes a New Christy
Minstrels version, in which it's changed to "gimme".

The article also gives a clue to the line though, by saying

Sung to the tune of "Revive Us Again", the song was printed by the
Industrial Workers of the World in 1908, and adopted by its
Spokane branch as their anthem later that year. The success of
their free speech campaign of 1909 led to its widespread
popularity.

If that's true, the "revive us again" may just have been lifted from
the lyrics to an earlier song.

Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:30:29 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
athel_cb@yahoo.co.uk>: in sci.lang:


Not as unlikely as it seems. US body language for example (movements
of hands, eyes, head) is very typical and different from European body
language(s).

John wrote on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:42:28 GMT:

JA> "Alec Kojaev" <AlecKojaev@excite.com> wrote...
??>> James Silverton wrote:
??
??>>> Just an ignorant question; does Latvian hold the record
??>>> for number of cases or are there languages with more?
??
??>> Of those that I know of, Finnish has fifteen, Estonian
??>> fourteen. There may be much more elaborate systems. A
??>> cursory glance
??>> at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases
??>> > makes me shudder.

JA> Chantyal has 23 cases, which may well be the record.
JA> Interestingly, the other Bodic languages (including closely
JA> related Nar-Phi and Tamang) have only about five or six.
JA> Classical Tibetan has seven.

There's not much sign of Finnish, Estonian, Chantyal or Tibetan
becoming world languages, I wonder why?

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:13:22 +0200, Ruud Harmsen





realemailons...@rudhar.com.invalid> wrote:
Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:30:29 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
athel...@yahoo.co.uk>: in sci.lang:

A long time before I could understand much Spanish I could recognize
within two or three words if a Spanish person appeared on TV in Chile,
long before the first word with a z in it appeared. Even now, though, I
don't immediately recognize an Argentinian accent, though most Chilean
people say they are completely obvious. My wife reckons she can
recognize Argentinians without hearing a word. Years ago we were in a
train in China and there was a group of obviously non-Chinese people at
the far end of the carriage, far out of earshot, and she said "they're
Argentinian". When I said "how can you possibly tell?" she said "they
move like Argentinians".

Not as unlikely as it seems. US body language for example (movements
of hands, eyes, head) is very typical and different from European body
language(s).

For those who doubt this, I would refer you to our (USA) dearly
beloved president who affects a particular style of Texan "macho
walk".

This gets even more exaggerated on ceremonial occasions where
he has to ambulate solo over a longer distance, such as on the deck
of an aircraft carrier prior to announcing something like "mission
accomplished". It is a most peculiat type of arrogant strut which
I have seen displayed elsewhere by "mean hombres" , but never
with this degree of flamboyance.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:22:25 GMT, "James Silverton"
not.jim.silverton@verizon.not> wrote:

John wrote on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:42:28 GMT:

JA> "Alec Kojaev" <AlecKojaev@excite.com> wrote...
??>> James Silverton wrote:
??
??>>> Just an ignorant question; does Latvian hold the record
??>>> for number of cases or are there languages with more?
??
??>> Of those that I know of, Finnish has fifteen, Estonian
??>> fourteen. There may be much more elaborate systems. A
??>> cursory glance
??>> at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases
??>> > makes me shudder.

JA> Chantyal has 23 cases, which may well be the record.
JA> Interestingly, the other Bodic languages (including closely
JA> related Nar-Phi and Tamang) have only about five or six.
JA> Classical Tibetan has seven.

There's not much sign of Finnish, Estonian, Chantyal or Tibetan
becoming world languages, I wonder why?

The Finns and Estonians failed in their attempt to establish an
empire.

Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net> writes:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:22:25 GMT, "James Silverton"
not.jim.silverton@verizon.not> wrote:

John wrote on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:42:28 GMT:

JA> "Alec Kojaev" <AlecKojaev@excite.com> wrote...
??>> James Silverton wrote:
??
??>>> Just an ignorant question; does Latvian hold the record
??>>> for number of cases or are there languages with more?
??
??>> Of those that I know of, Finnish has fifteen, Estonian
??>> fourteen. There may be much more elaborate systems. A
??>> cursory glance
??>> at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases
??>> > makes me shudder.

JA> Chantyal has 23 cases, which may well be the record.
JA> Interestingly, the other Bodic languages (including closely
JA> related Nar-Phi and Tamang) have only about five or six.
JA> Classical Tibetan has seven.

There's not much sign of Finnish, Estonian, Chantyal or Tibetan
becoming world languages, I wonder why?

The Finns and Estonians failed in their attempt to establish an
empire.

Do you suppose that the Austro-Hungarian empire was hampered by
Hungarian's [googles] "as many as eighteen" cases?

"James Silverton" wrote:
John wrote:
"Alec Kojaev" wrote...
James Silverton wrote:

Just an ignorant question; does Latvian hold the record
for number of cases or are there languages with more?

Of those that I know of, Finnish has fifteen, Estonian
fourteen. There may be much more elaborate systems. A
cursory glance
at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases
makes me shudder.

Chantyal has 23 cases, which may well be the record.
Interestingly, the other Bodic languages (including closely
related Nar-Phi and Tamang) have only about five or six.
Classical Tibetan has seven.

There's not much sign of Finnish, Estonian, Chantyal or Tibetan
becoming world languages, I wonder why?

The Finns and Estonians failed in their attempt to establish an
empire.