| |
 |
|
|
Science Forum Index » Languages Forum » Is it too late for my American-sounding toddler?
Page 2 of 13 Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, ... 11, 12, 13 Next
|
| Author |
Message |
| jerry_friedman@yahoo.com |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:45 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Apr 10, 7:16 pm, Robert Bannister <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Quote: Martha N. wrote:
I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late? Or will he automatically pick up the local
pronunciations when he spends more time with local people?
Children always conform to peer groups (although rarely to parents). He
will quickly pick up the local accent whether you want him to or not.
Not always. My advisor's younger son, last I saw him, had an accent
much like his parents' New York accents, though he had spent all his
life (early teens at the time) in Illinois.
--
Jerry Friedman |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Mike M |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:02 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On 10 Apr, 21:25, "Richard Chambers"
<richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote:
Quote:
In 1972, I came from the Midlands (of England) to live in Yorkshire. I have
absolutely nothing against the Leeds accent, it's lovely, but as things
turned out I have picked up very little of it -- except that I now say "ont'
table", or even "ont'able", etc, instead of "on the table" etc . My wife,
who I married a couple of years after I came here, has even less of a Leeds
accent than I have -- she does not even stoop to "ont' table". Our two
children, before school age, spoke with the same accent as we have. Within a
year of starting school, they were talking with a slight Leeds accent. That
was enough for them to be able to bluff their way through the Leeds
schooling system without being picked on.
Every single word of the above paragraph applies to me (and my wife
and children), even down to the date!
In my experience, children *always* pick up their accents from their
peers, not their parents (otherwise my Brummie schoolfriend with an
Irish mother and Polish father would have sounded very odd).
Anyway, I think foreign accents usually have a positive, rather than
negative effect - they give the speaker a slightly exotic allure
(especially with the opposite sex, which I suppose might cause a
little jealousy).
Mike M |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Matthew Huntbach |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:52 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Martha N. wrote:
Quote: I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late? Or will he automatically pick up the local
pronunciations when he spends more time with local people?
No, it is not too late. At the age of three and for quite a few years
later, kids tend naturally to pick up the accent around them. So the
likelihood is that your child will pick up whatever is the predominant
accent in his school.
Dpending on where it is you plan to live, you may well find your school
in England has children with a great variety of accents anyway. In
London this seems to result with children emerging with a generic
London mix, which is significantly different from the Estuary
English formerly London associated, but now more the accent of the
outer suburbs and surrounding counties.
A bit of American would probably be considered rather glamorous anyway,
your child might be admired for it rather than bullied. But likelihood
is he'll grow up able to switch it on when talking to you, and switch
it off when talking at school.
Matthew Huntbach |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Amethyst Deceiver |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:19 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
In article <667sf9F2i6pt9U4@mid.individual.net>, robban1@bigpond.com
says...
Quote: Martha N. wrote:
I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late? Or will he automatically pick up the local
pronunciations when he spends more time with local people?
Children always conform to peer groups (although rarely to parents). He
will quickly pick up the local accent whether you want him to or not.
This is true. YoungBloke is linguistically a Mancunian despite my being
a southerner and OldBloke being a West Countryman. That's from nursery.
Once he starts school in September his accent will change to Wet Yorks.
Martha - my son (4) is aware that some people say things differently. He
spent a happy five minutes recently saying "bahthroom, bathroom,
bahthroom, bathroom". At home he is more likely to talk about the
bahthroom but at nursery about the bathroom. No teasing or bullying goes
on.
--
Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| HVS |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:33 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On 11 Apr 2008, Amethyst Deceiver wrote
Quote: In article <667sf9F2i6pt9U4@mid.individual.net>,
robban1@bigpond.com says...
Martha N. wrote:
I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because
he pronounces some things the American way, especially the d
for t in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late? Or will he automatically pick up the local
pronunciations when he spends more time with local people?
Children always conform to peer groups (although rarely to
parents). He will quickly pick up the local accent whether you
want him to or not.
This is true. YoungBloke is linguistically a Mancunian despite
my being a southerner and OldBloke being a West Countryman.
That's from nursery. Once he starts school in September his
accent will change to Wet Yorks.
Martha - my son (4) is aware that some people say things
differently.
I initially read that to mean that you have a 4-year-old son named
"Martha". (I bet *that* would get him teased.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Welches |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:34 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Martha N." <martha@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:397647bfad1e563170035461113c6633@pseudo.borked.net...
Quote: I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late? Or will he automatically pick up the local
pronunciations when he spends more time with local people?
Thanks for any advice.
I've found the replies interesting.
My parents were from the midlands and say things like "b-ar-th" and
"gr-ar-ss". I was brought up in the north where it's a short "a" rather than
"ar".
All three of us children grew up with the southern accent, and all got
teased/bullied about it, from about age 7. It was said to be "posh". I kept
this accent until I went to secondary school, when I deliberately changed my
accent. I had a friend at primary who came (gradually north in stages) from
London and she had had similar problems once she hit northern accented
schools (so much that in one school she refused to speak at all)
Of course when I came south to college, everyone said hown northern I
sounded...
To the OP. I don't think the American accent will be much of a problem. Just
make sure you use "trousers" rather than "pants". That's probably the most
likely thing that can get laughed at.
I'd also give him something to say when someone says "why do you talk like
that?" and they will, even at a young age. If he knows to say "mummy's from
America" it gives him something to say when he's asked.
Debbie |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Trond Engen |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:00 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Craoibhin66@gmail.com skreiv:
Quote: On Apr 11, 1:10 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
People tend to settle (unconsciously) on the regional and social
dialect they'll have for the rest of their life (see other responses
in this thread) during their middle teens, when they first become
acutely aware of social pressure and peer groups.
This is as may be, but the accent people have is very much about who
they identify with. [...] Now that I have been living in Southwestern
Finland for half my lifetime, I have adopted both the local accent
and many local dialectal traits. Few people believe I am from Eastern
Finland at all when they hear me speaking. The fact is that I rather
like it here and identify with the place, and have even started
taking an interest in local history. The industrial casualty where I
grew up I never liked, or identified with. It always was a place to
get away from.
I moved twice during childhood, at nine and thirteen. Both times I
remember adjusting my speech. First I moved within eastern Norway (the
region around Oslo) to place with a more "rustic" version of the
dialect, then across the country to a place with a dialect diverging
from my own in almost every possible way. The first time I remember
adjusting for sympathy and interest, the second time I didn't adjust
much to the local way but switched to a bookish (or socially ambitious)
Oslo sociolect to avoid being branded as a backward peasant. Elements of
local vocabulary came later as I accepted my destiny and started liking
the place.
After moving as a young adult, first to a university with students from
all over the country and then to where the job market took me -- which
happened to be back in eastern Norway -- the bookish gradually was
replaced by a more colloquial pattern. Now, 12 years after my last move,
my speech is somewhere between my two first dialects, and I notice that
it's still changing. But not so much in direction of the local dialect,
I think, as by including more features from my childhood speech.
--
Trond Engen
- rootless |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Matthew Huntbach |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:23 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, Welches wrote:
Quote: "Martha N." <martha@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
I've found the replies interesting.
My parents were from the midlands and say things like "b-ar-th" and
"gr-ar-ss". I was brought up in the north where it's a short "a" rather than
"ar".
We need to remember, when communicating with Americans, that they
pronounce their 'r's. So what you write as "ar", they will think of
as symbolising "arrr". You could write it as "ah" to convey the
difference between southern and northern "bath", "grass" etc,
(then you will only confuse Russians, Arabs, etc, who pronounce their
'h's and so will think you mean something like "ba-cough-th" where
"cough" represents a guttural sound we don't have in English).
Matthew Huntbach |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Peter T. Daniels |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:00 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Apr 11, 9:07 am, Marc <marc.ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 11, 6:23 am, Matthew Huntbach <m...@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> wrote:
We need to remember, when communicating with Americans, that they
pronounce their 'r's. So what you write as "ar", they will think of
as symbolising "arrr". You could write it as "ah" to convey the
And then there are those Americans who say warsh instead of wash
(appropriately making Washington Warshington).
Which, to the persons Matthew was instructing, will appear to make no
sense at all! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Athel Cornish-Bowden |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:00 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Quote: Martha N. wrote:
I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late? Or will he automatically pick up the local
pronunciations when he spends more time with local people?
Individual children vary enormously in this. 35 years ago my (then)
wife was in exactly the position you describe: she was an American
woman living in England with her English husband. We had two daughters,
one born in 1969, the other in 1971. The older picked the accent of
whatever children she interacted with within a day of changing her
environment, the younger spoke in her own way completely unaffected by
how the children around her spoke. Around 1978 they went for about two
months to the US, while I stayed in England. The older one sounded
American the first time they telephoned me (i.e. within a day or so of
arriving); the younger one sounded just as British as ever when they
came back. Both of them now live in the US, and their accents have
switched around: the older one still sounds British even to a British
person (she doubtless sounds very British to Americans); the younger
one sounds American (to me; her friends there may think otherwise).
All this to say that almost nothing you can do will affect the way your
child speaks. I certainly wouldn't try to stop him sounding American.
If you want to stop him acquiring a strong local British accent you
need to choose his school with care.
--
athel |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Athel Cornish-Bowden |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:05 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On 2008-04-11 11:52:09 +0200, Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> said:
[ ... ]
Quote:
A bit of American would probably be considered rather glamorous anyway,
your child might be admired for it rather than bullied.
That is certainly true. Most people in Europe (especially children)
think that American television programmes present an accurate picture
of American life, and consequently find the idea of being Amerrican
very glamorous.
Quote: But likelihood
is he'll grow up able to switch it on when talking to you, and switch
it off when talking at school.
--
athel |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Athel Cornish-Bowden |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:38 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On 2008-04-11 16:05:17 +0200, I said:
Quote: On 2008-04-11 11:52:09 +0200, Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> said:
[ ... ]
A bit of American would probably be considered rather glamorous anyway,
your child might be admired for it rather than bullied.
That is certainly true. Most people in Europe (especially children)
think that American television programmes present an accurate picture
of American life, and consequently find the idea of being Amerrican
Just a typo; not intentional.
Quote: very glamorous.
But likelihood
is he'll grow up able to switch it on when talking to you, and switch
it off when talking at school.
--
athel |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Ariariar |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:49 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:45:20 -0700 (PDT),
"jerry_friedman@yahoo.com" <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> said:
(Snip)
Quote: My advisor's younger son, last I saw him, had an accent
much like his parents' New York accents, though he had spent all his
life (early teens at the time) in Illinois
Pat: Have you lived all your life in New York City?
Mike: Not yet. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| John Dean |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:00 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Quote: On Apr 10, 6:51 pm, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
Martha N. wrote:
I'm American but live in England with my English husband. Our
three-year-old must've picked up his speech from me, because he
pronounces some things the American way, especially the d for t
in words like "wadder" and "nawdy" (water and naughty).
We plan to stay here and I don't want him to be picked on in
school for the way he talks.
Can we retrain him not to sound American? How?
Is it too late?
Uh huh.
But not too late to teach him to lie and claim he's Canadian.
Or you could change the way *you* speak and let him pick *that* up.
Well, no, she can't really, since she's presumably more than 16 years
old or so.
If Nigel Kennedy and Jamie Oliver can become cockneys late in life, anyone
can be anything they want. Think of Eliza Doolittle. Think of Harold Wilson
having elocution lessons to recapture his Yorkshire accent. Remember the
Alamo.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| TsuiDF |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:06 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Apr 10, 8:50 pm, "Adrian Bailey" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: 2. Do you really think that 4-year-olds are picked on for the way they talk?
By whom? The other kids? The teachers? If he _is_ picked on, or if he feels
uncomfortably different, you'll discover that at his age he'll learn to
conform in no time. Whatever transpires, there's no need for any
"retraining".
At age 5+ I wasn't exactly 'picked on' but I did have to answer an
inordinate number of inquiries along the lines of 'Speak (or 'talk')
some English!' This from native speakers of the language in
Massachusetts, when we emigrated there from Lancashire. Of course,
the same Bay Staters also badgered us with 'Do you know the Queen?',
'Have you met the Beatles?', and 'I love your accent, are you from
Australia?' They also frequently offered us English muffins under the
impression that so doing would make us feel 'at home'.
I didn't lose my accent until I was about 14. By the time I was about
17 I had decided that the local accents of the places where I'd been
living (the aforesaid Bay State and upstate New York) were a bit too
extreme for future use, so chose myself a different accent when I went
to university.
I am no longer asked any of the above questions, but I doubt the
accent change is the reason.
cheers,
Stephanie
in Brussels |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
Page 2 of 13 Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, ... 11, 12, 13 Next
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:17 pm
|
|