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Avant Grape
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:19 pm
Guest
rich hammett wrote:
Quote:
In rec.sport.football.college Avant Grape <avantnograpecrap@sbcglobal.net> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
bill wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!
keep driving the car you have now. save your money for a phev when
they come out. why switch from 28 to 38 now when you can wait 2-4
years and switch to 100+.

You're living in a dream world. 2-4 years? LOL Maybe in a socialist
country, but not in America.

Socialist countries have better engineers?


I dunno. Japan is certainly more socialist than the U.S., no? But I
was speaking more to CAFE standards and the U.S. infrastructure, which
is much more slower moving than a more socialist country.

But back to this idea of 2-4 years, 100+ mpg line: First of all, where
does *most* of the energy come that charges these lithium-ion batteries?
Answer: the burning of fossil fuels. Of course, there are costs
involved in charging your battery and any mpg figure would have to be
weighted against that reality. As far as the 100+ figure...this is
really a figure given under test-only conditions. Realistically, your
talking a maximum of probably 65 mpg under the most optimum road
conditions (long freeway miles). But again, that's not factoring in the
costs associated with charging your vehicle as well as the price for the
vehicle itself, which will likely take a lifetime to catch up to the
savings one would get from owning such a vehicle. The worst thing to do
would be to buy any of these vehicles until that are mass produced, if
and when that ever happens.

IMO, this is hardly a long-term solution to our fuel needs.

-JC
Poetic Justice
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:40 pm
Guest
Avant Grape wrote:
Quote:
rich hammett wrote:
In rec.sport.football.college Avant Grape
avantnograpecrap@sbcglobal.net> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
bill wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!
keep driving the car you have now. save your money for a phev when
they come out. why switch from 28 to 38 now when you can wait 2-4
years and switch to 100+.

You're living in a dream world. 2-4 years? LOL Maybe in a
socialist country, but not in America.

Socialist countries have better engineers?


I dunno. Japan is certainly more socialist than the U.S., no? But I
was speaking more to CAFE standards and the U.S. infrastructure, which
is much more slower moving than a more socialist country.


That's Government, not engineering. Socialist engineers in socialist
countries simply need to make it law and then the Government enforces it
with th eiron fist of the government that owns all the guns.

Quote:
But back to this idea of 2-4 years, 100+ mpg line: First of all, where
does *most* of the energy come that charges these lithium-ion batteries?
Answer: the burning of fossil fuels. Of course, there are costs
involved in charging your battery and any mpg figure would have to be
weighted against that reality. As far as the 100+ figure...this is
really a figure given under test-only conditions. Realistically, your
talking a maximum of probably 65 mpg under the most optimum road
conditions (long freeway miles). But again, that's not factoring in the
costs associated with charging your vehicle as well as the price for the
vehicle itself, which will likely take a lifetime to catch up to the
savings one would get from owning such a vehicle. The worst thing to do
would be to buy any of these vehicles until that are mass produced, if
and when that ever happens.



Repairing them will be the limiting factor for them being economically
viable.


Quote:
IMO, this is hardly a long-term solution to our fuel needs.

-JC
bill
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:46 pm
Guest
On Apr 12, 10:19 pm, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-
Dog.com> wrote:
Quote:
the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 4:35 pm, Jaybyrd <jaybyrdb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:19 am, Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?
Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!
The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid gets around 21mpg. Can't get close to beating
that.
You are being silly yes? I get 20mpg with a caravan.

But it's not a hybrid, therefore not as efficient for the environment.

Hybrid means that it has more than one technology integrated into the
vehicle. Hybrid does not mean efficient. The Jetta diesel gets 52mpg
and that's better than some hybrids.

Which is great except that deisel fuel takes 1.25 times as much oil to
produce per gallon compared to gasoline. Which means that on a barrel
of oil equivalency, the jetta is only getting 40 mpg, which is less
than most hybrids and comparable to the gasoline jetta. TANSTAAFL.
Poetic Justice
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:19 pm
Guest
the_andrew_smith@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 12, 4:35 pm, Jaybyrd <jaybyrdb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:19 am, Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?
Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!
The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid gets around 21mpg. Can't get close to beating
that.
You are being silly yes? I get 20mpg with a caravan.

But it's not a hybrid, therefore not as efficient for the environment.

Hybrid means that it has more than one technology integrated into the
vehicle. Hybrid does not mean efficient. The Jetta diesel gets 52mpg
and that's better than some hybrids.
Guest
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:24 am
On 8 Apr, 16:09, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

Ahahahahah!!!!!

That's counted me out already. Damn it.
Mercellus Bohren
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:48 am
Guest
On Apr 13, 1:24 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:
Quote:
On 8 Apr, 16:09, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

Ahahahahah!!!!!

That's counted me out already. Damn it.

what?
Poetic Justice
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:37 am
Guest
bill wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 12, 10:19 pm, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-
Dog.com> wrote:
the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 4:35 pm, Jaybyrd <jaybyrdb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:19 am, Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?
Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!
The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid gets around 21mpg. Can't get close to beating
that.
You are being silly yes? I get 20mpg with a caravan.
But it's not a hybrid, therefore not as efficient for the environment.
Hybrid means that it has more than one technology integrated into the
vehicle. Hybrid does not mean efficient. The Jetta diesel gets 52mpg
and that's better than some hybrids.

Which is great except that deisel fuel takes 1.25 times as much oil to
produce per gallon compared to gasoline. Which means that on a barrel
of oil equivalency, the jetta is only getting 40 mpg, which is less
than most hybrids and comparable to the gasoline jetta. TANSTAAFL.

which is sad except that the gallon of gas takes twice as much refining
to get to the gas pump and has other additives for seasonal and regional
specific government guidelines. Then after refining uses more energy and
man hours it gets lower mileage.

The next great thing is that Bio diesel can replace diesel if it ever
proves economical or if another embargo is started.


It's time to think about Oil being withheld from the USA as a political
stick, once again.
Guest
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:38 am
On 13 Apr, 19:48, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 13, 1:24 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:

On 8 Apr, 16:09, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

Ahahahahah!!!!!

That's counted me out already. Damn it.

what?

Here are the top Ten Best Hybrid Cars

1) Toyota Prius

2) Honda Civic Hybrid

3) Toyota Aygo

4) Smart Fortwo

5) Citroen C1

6) Lexus GS 450h


7) Lexus RX 400h

8) Ford S-Max

9) G-Wiz

10) Marc Rattray

Hope its not too much TROLLING, <laugh>

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article1766353.ece
Mercellus Bohren
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:57 am
Guest
On Apr 13, 2:38 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:
Quote:
On 13 Apr, 19:48, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:



On Apr 13, 1:24 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:

On 8 Apr, 16:09, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

Ahahahahah!!!!!

That's counted me out already. Damn it.

what?

Here are the top Ten Best Hybrid Cars

1) Toyota Prius

2) Honda Civic Hybrid

3) Toyota Aygo

4) Smart Fortwo

5) Citroen C1

6) Lexus GS 450h

7) Lexus RX 400h

8) Ford S-Max

9) G-Wiz

10) Marc Rattray

Hope its not too much TROLLING, <laugh

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/...

what?
Guest
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:53 pm
On 13 Apr, 21:57, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 13, 2:38 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:





On 13 Apr, 19:48, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Apr 13, 1:24 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:

On 8 Apr, 16:09, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

Ahahahahah!!!!!

That's counted me out already. Damn it.

what?

Here are the top Ten Best Hybrid Cars

1) Toyota Prius

2) Honda Civic Hybrid

3) Toyota Aygo

4) Smart Fortwo

5) Citroen C1

6) Lexus GS 450h

7) Lexus RX 400h

8) Ford S-Max

9) G-Wiz

10) Marc Rattray

Hope its not too much TROLLING, <laugh

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/...

what?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can you stop say what? you sound like a broken record.

Try TROLL?
Whata Fool
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:43 pm
Guest
Avant Grape <avantnograpecrap@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Quote:
bill wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

keep driving the car you have now. save your money for a phev when
they come out. why switch from 28 to 38 now when you can wait 2-4
years and switch to 100+.



You're living in a dream world. 2-4 years? LOL Maybe in a socialist
country, but not in America.

-JC

Talk about delusional, under socialism, it is
a wonder more than half the people have indoor johns
and running water.
Whata Fool
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:49 pm
Guest
Avant Grape <avantnograpecrap@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Quote:
IMO, this is hardly a long-term solution to our fuel needs.

-JC

It is, moron, simply because any and all small
movement away from gasoline means a lot in reducing
imports,

and,

The US has loads of excess electrical capacity
between 9PM and 6AM.

One of the differences between free thinking
and socialist controlled thinking is the small,
but important details that make economics work.
Jaybyrd
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:46 am
Guest
On Apr 12, 8:04 pm, "the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com"
<the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 12, 4:35 pm, Jaybyrd <jaybyrdb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Apr 8, 11:19 am, Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Apr 8, 11:09 am, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

The  Chevy Tahoe Hybrid gets around 21mpg.  Can't get close to beating
that.

You are being silly yes?   I get 20mpg with a caravan.

But it's not a hybrid, therefore not as efficient for the environment.

a.

chevy will need better economic stimulus that that for me to switch.
Mercellus Bohren
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:25 am
Guest
On Apr 13, 11:53 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:
Quote:
On 13 Apr, 21:57, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:



On Apr 13, 2:38 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:

On 13 Apr, 19:48, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Apr 13, 1:24 pm, festusby...@btinternet.com wrote:

On 8 Apr, 16:09, Mercellus Bohren <mercell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to buy a hybrid vehicle in 2008. Does anyone know what type
of hybrid vehicle will get me the biggest tax credit when tax time
rolls around in 2009?

Thanks for any useful information. Trolls and other ner-do-wells
should stop and consider any hurtful replies!

Ahahahahah!!!!!

That's counted me out already. Damn it.

what?

Here are the top Ten Best Hybrid Cars

1) Toyota Prius

2) Honda Civic Hybrid

3) Toyota Aygo

4) Smart Fortwo

5) Citroen C1

6) Lexus GS 450h

7) Lexus RX 400h

8) Ford S-Max

9) G-Wiz

10) Marc Rattray

Hope its not too much TROLLING, <laugh

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/....

what?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can you stop say what? you sound like a broken record.

Try TROLL?

huh?
bill
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:24 am
Guest
Quote:
You are being silly yes? I get 20mpg with a caravan.
But it's not a hybrid, therefore not as efficient for the environment.
Hybrid means that it has more than one technology integrated into the
vehicle. Hybrid does not mean efficient. The Jetta diesel gets 52mpg
and that's better than some hybrids.
That's nice and all. But hybrids are better than the diesels because
they use less fuel.
name one that will go on a continuous 12 hour interstate trip and get
better than 52mpg.- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure why you keep making these MPG comparisons.

When Hybrids run on batteries they don't even use fuel.

Please quit making yourself look so stupid.

There's really no call for rudeness.
Batteries aren't measured by the gallon. They're measured by the amp
hour.

here's the thing. the current generation of hybrids are parallel
hybrids. That means that any time they are moving, the ICE is burning
fuel, they are NEVER running "on batteries". You cannot run them on
grid electricity. That means that the best comparison between
vehicles is MPG. The deisels have a slightly unfair advantage in that
regard due to the extra energy contained in the fuel, they can be
equally thermally efficient and still get more MPG due to the extra.

Now, when the PHEV (Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) hits the market
(there is none currently available for sale) THEN we can start talking
about running "on batteries" and the amp hour storage of the batteries
will become relevant. However, until that time... Well, you posts
have indicated that you are seriously misinformed. Some here tend to
be rude under those conditions.
 
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