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Science Forum Index » Psychology Forum » Dream on...
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| Day Brown |
 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:33 pm |
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Got an email from yet another group of x-military, going on about a
coming collapse, and planning on going to the White mtns of AZ. Where
someone has 5 acres. Where they plan to practice swordplay and
archery. And want people to read the Foxfire books. And books on
alternative energy, animal husbandry, gardening, and electronic
communications.
And do all that on 5 acres? yeah. sure. If I had any doubt that PTSD
damaged reasoning power, I lost it. He talks about survival as if they
are going to summer camp. |
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| Gunner Asch |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:23 am |
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On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:33:57 -0700 (PDT), Day Brown
<daybrown@hughes.net> wrote:
Quote: Got an email from yet another group of x-military, going on about a
coming collapse, and planning on going to the White mtns of AZ. Where
someone has 5 acres. Where they plan to practice swordplay and
archery. And want people to read the Foxfire books. And books on
alternative energy, animal husbandry, gardening, and electronic
communications.
And do all that on 5 acres? yeah. sure. If I had any doubt that PTSD
damaged reasoning power, I lost it. He talks about survival as if they
are going to summer camp.
There may be a 5 acre camp, but the White Mountains are huge. The
Apache survived and thrived there for many hundreds of years.
Gunner
"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr |
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| Day Brown |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:27 am |
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Like I said in my original post, which was not read all that
carefully, 1/4 is plenty per person if the ground is worked up and the
growing season decent.
The Apache lived up in those mtns, and the Osage lived up in the
Ozarks. In both cases, they didnt really live off the land so much as
augment their resources with those of other tribes, who they regarded
as prey animals.
And of course, they'd been doing it for generations. I dunno how many
times I've seen the idea expressed by some urbanite that he's gonna
drive out into the boonies with his bugout rig and pioneer. But
there's a *reason* nobody is already living out there. Nobody could
make a living on it.
There's a classic movie with Garry Cooper during the depression where
the hill family talks about their situation around the dinner table
before blowing it off and moving to California. There's references to
"bottom land". 1/4 acre of alleuvial bottom land is plenty.
But archeologists went to Greece to pull up soil cores, and they see
where the bottom land was clearcut early in the first millennium by
the pioneering Greek farmers. But after a century or so, all that had
been cleared, and they begin to see how the upland benches and
ridgetops get cleared next.
But that ground plays out after a couple generations, which is the
problem Garry Cooper's character had. The soil cores show the silt
that had washed down, and I see it is still washing in my neck of the
Ozarks. Lotsa jackasses playing sandbox with bulldozers. You'd be hard
put to get enuf turnips to sustain you off 5 acres of the remaining
clay. And as bad as it is here, its worse in the steeper western
mtns.
I love the way the conifer forests look, staying green all year; but
for one, the dropped needles form a high acid base that veggies cant
hardly grow in. Its part of a defense system of conifers. And
secondly, its a huge fire hazard. You can burn the leaf duff in mixed
hardwoods too, and the forest services does that deliberately, but
lacking the resin from the conifers the heat is a lot less and it
never sets the canopy on fire, but just burns out the brush along the
ground.
You dont see video on TV of houses burned down in forest fires in the
Ozark or Appalachain mtns. After TSHTF, those western mtns are gonna
be on fire as soon as it dried out enuf, and nobody will be calling
smoke jumpers. If you survive that, you can then collect the ash to
put on a flatter piece of ground to build up the fertility of the
soil. Or- you can put 300 lb of lime/acre on it now while you can
still get it.
Anyone who was realistic enuf to survive with whatever they have in a
bug out rig should have the lime and fertilizer to put on whatever
ground they find to live on. The Hillbillies back in the 1930's didnt
know about that either, and they also fucking starved to death. i have
8 acres of ridgetop that was so played out its taken 5 years to get it
up to the point where it will provide just my own needs.
Oh, you can grow veggies in just two inches of top soil, but then soon
as the summer heat and dry starts, they all stop growing. You need 6
to take them thru 3 weeks without rain, 8 to do a month. If you are
familiar with an area, then you know which springs dont dry out. If
not, then not.
Wells out west commonly run 1500 ft. no biggie as long as the electic
grid is up. But I've pumped water by hand out of 60ft, and while its
doable for household needs, it'd wear your ass out trying to irrigate.
Never mind pulling water 10-20 times deeper.
http://daybrown.org/newomen/newomen.html disturbs sensibilities; but
one clue is that there are thousands of water course valleys out on
the Great Plains you can drive a bug out rig down into, be below the
horizon, and hide out. And have water. And have the alleuvial soil to
successfully grow veggies. Even have some firewood to heat with next
winter. Just dont have a fire during the day; the smoke will be an
arrow pointing at you.
The Slavs hid out like this, and didnt use the mountains either. But
did build mud/stone ovens in tiny cabins. The fire burned all nite
when nobody could see the smoke, but then the thermal mass kept it
warm all day. They were famous for growing turnips. 1/4 acre would
provide a couple tons of tubers. Or say a ton of tubers and a ton of
cabbage. from which you make saurkraut. which has vitamin C to get you
thru the winter without scurvy.
Another problem is that the modern survivalist has to think about all
this, but the Slavs didnt; they'd been raised on it, and instinctively
knew what to do. |
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