I think all the box-like things along the length of it is where the fuel
was supposed to be...some form of solidified hydrogen isotopes IIRC,
although Wikipedia says ammonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_One Originally, the design did
have cooling fins on it in its earliest conceptions, but Kubrick wanted
it to look like a cross between a sperm cell and a spinal column to get
across the connection to the ape throwing the bone into the air and the
creation of the Starchild.


Exactly. Discovery (as shown in the film) only work if you assume
handwavium fuel, incredible thrust/ISP, and no need to cool anything
onboard.

Although it doesn't rotate, the design is perfect for the creation of
artificial gravity by rotating the whole works, so that the front of the
crew sphere would be "down" as it's counterbalanced by the engine
module, with the antenna array at the center of rotation.
This would have made a lot more sense than the centrifuge in the crew
sphere...it's so small in diameter that the crew will be sick in no time
as they move around in it.


Exactly. The centrifuge as shown on film is a wonderful
cinematographic tour de force - but it won't work in real life.

Derek Lyons wrote:

Practically everything about the Discovery for starters. (Note the
lack of cooling fins, the lack of fuel tanks, lack of room for
supplies, etc...)

I think all the box-like things along the length of it is where the fuel
was supposed to be...some form of solidified hydrogen isotopes IIRC,
although Wikipedia says ammonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_One Originally, the design did
have cooling fins on it in its earliest conceptions, but Kubrick wanted
it to look like a cross between a sperm cell and a spinal column to get
across the connection to the ape throwing the bone into the air and the
creation of the Starchild.
One version of the design used a "Orion" type nuclear blast drive and
pusher plate. About the only thing that stayed intact through all of the
designs was the spherical crew module at the front.
Although it doesn't rotate, the design is perfect for the creation of
artificial gravity by rotating the whole works, so that the front of the
crew sphere would be "down" as it's counterbalanced by the engine
module, with the antenna array at the center of rotation.
This would have made a lot more sense than the centrifuge in the crew
sphere...it's so small in diameter that the crew will be sick in no time
as they move around in it.

Pat

I think all the box-like things along the length of it is where the
fuel was supposed to be...some form of solidified hydrogen isotopes
IIRC, although Wikipedia says ammonia:

Derek Lyons wrote:

I think all the box-like things along the length of it is where the fuel
was supposed to be...some form of solidified hydrogen isotopes IIRC,
although Wikipedia says ammonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_One Originally, the design did
have cooling fins on it in its earliest conceptions, but Kubrick wanted
it to look like a cross between a sperm cell and a spinal column to get
across the connection to the ape throwing the bone into the air and the
creation of the Starchild.

Exactly. Discovery (as shown in the film) only work if you assume
handwavium fuel, incredible thrust/ISP, and no need to cool anything
onboard.


They are looking into possible room temperature and pressure stable
forms of metallic hydrogen:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4256976.html

The problem isn't the fuel stored in the tanks Pat - but that no known
fuel fed into no known propulsion system can both fit into the visible
volume and provide sufficient thrust.

Obviously, there was great cinematic effect in having the Pan Am
clipper rotate in sync with the center hangar, but I always thought it
would be much more practical, though less dramatic to dock with the
wheel on its outermost point. Dock on the tangent.

Al <aa...@flash.net> wrote:
On Apr 10, 2:24 am, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
Al <aa...@flash.net> wrote:
Considering how even any kind of sensible scientific facts were
totally left out of most science fiction films before and after
2001 ... I consider criticisms such as this nits.

Considering the shaky scientific ground on which "2001" stood... your
point is?

What was shaky?

Practically everything about the Discovery for starters. (Note the
lack of cooling fins, the lack of fuel tanks, lack of room for
supplies, etc...)

2001 tried to do more than most, and by-and-large accomplished it, but
Kubrick wasn't above ignoring that which was inconvenient.

The back ground technology was worked out in exacting
detail by engineers Fred Ordway, Harry Lange and Aerospace consultants
in both the USA and England.

Having consultants doesn't mean they were listened to. Even if they
were famous.

D.
--

Derek Lyons wrote:

This would have made a lot more sense than the centrifuge in the crew
sphere...it's so small in diameter that the crew will be sick in no time
as they move around in it.

Pat

Pat Flannery <flanner@daktel.com> wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:

Practically everything about the Discovery for starters. (Note the
lack of cooling fins, the lack of fuel tanks, lack of room for
supplies, etc...)


I think all the box-like things along the length of it is where the fuel
was supposed to be...some form of solidified hydrogen isotopes IIRC,
although Wikipedia says ammonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_One Originally, the design did
have cooling fins on it in its earliest conceptions, but Kubrick wanted
it to look like a cross between a sperm cell and a spinal column to get
across the connection to the ape throwing the bone into the air and the
creation of the Starchild.
One version of the design used a "Orion" type nuclear blast drive and
pusher plate. About the only thing that stayed intact through all of the
designs was the spherical crew module at the front.
Although it doesn't rotate, the design is perfect for the creation of
artificial gravity by rotating the whole works, so that the front of the
crew sphere would be "down" as it's counterbalanced by the engine
module, with the antenna array at the center of rotation.
This would have made a lot more sense than the centrifuge in the crew
sphere...it's so small in diameter that the crew will be sick in no time
as they move around in it.

Pat



One of the best sources for this is Clarke's "The Lost Worlds of 2001."

Pat's right about the box-like things being the fuel tanks. The original
design had cooling fins, but they were removed because they didn't want
the audience wondering why a space ship had wings.

According to the book,

"Immediately behind the pressure hull was grouped a cluster of four
large liquid hydrogen tanks - and beyond them, forming a long, slender
V, were the radiating fins that dissipated the waste heat of the nuclear
reactor. Veined with a delicate tracery of pipes for the cooling fluid,
they looked like the wings of some vast dragonfly, and from certain
angles gave Discovery a fleeting resemblance to an old-time sailing
ship."

See the image at

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/discovery.jpg

The problem isn't the fuel stored in the tanks Pat - but that no known
fuel fed into no known propulsion system can both fit into the visible
volume and provide sufficient thrust.

The thrust needed isn't all that much; comparatively small engines would

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:26:00 -0500
Subject: [history] New Sets of NASA Historical Materials

Four series from the NASA Headquarters Historical Reference Collection
have been digitized and made available in a new on-line database for use
by researchers. The database is now available at
https://mira.hq.nasa.gov/history/ or can be accessed through the History
Division web site. Included are PDFs of Press Kits, Press Releases,
Mission Transcripts, and Administrators' Speeches. Researchers may use
either the Basic Search or Advanced Search to access these. The HQ
History Division staff has digitized all press kits, press releases,
mission transcripts, and Administrators' speeches that were available to
them in the Historical Reference Collection. Links are provided to
other sources where similar and/or additional information may be found.

Derek Lyons wrote:

Practically everything about the Discovery for starters. (Note the
lack of cooling fins, the lack of fuel tanks, lack of room for
supplies, etc...)

I am curious to know what you think was supposed to be stored in the
containers that lie along Discovery's 275-foot spine.

As for the radiator, Clarke has already mentioned this in his writings
about 2001. Early plans for Discovery did include a radiator but Kubrick
and others thought they looked too much like a wing and would confuse
the average filmgoer. Just as the Zero-G toilet instructions was the one
intentional joke in the film, so was the lack of a radiator the one
intentional technical omission.

--
Dave Michelson
da...@ece.ubc.ca

We call this HOTAS, Hands-On Stick And Throttle, and it was designed
to use with a HUD, Head-Up Display. The problem with using panel
displays instead of a HUD is that it requires the operator to come
"inside" the airplane instead of staying "outside".

Mary "An HMD, Helmet-Mounted Display, works, too"

That is the one thing that makes the most sense, the massive
interconnect of a
spinning outer hub and non rotating inner hub would be complicated and
expensive.
Rotating the space craft would be a logical and cheap way of doing the
docking.