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Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:10 am
Guest
On Apr 5, 6:37 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote:
Du¹an Vukotiæ wrote:
On Apr 5, 1:41 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net

You are unable to see that Lat. sorbeo is derived from the same basis
as acerbo (to make bitter, to aggravate) and Serb. crpeti (draw,
deplete, exhaust) and that basis was Xur-Bel-Gon;
In the same sense that he is unable to see that 2 + 2 = 5. Once again,
you rely not on proving anything but on imploring people to share your
imagination

Are you able to say anything concrete instead of repeating the same
"mantra" constantly?

As long as you keep operating the same way, the response will be the
same. Do you expect the answer to "What is 2 + 2?" to change to
something other than 4 just for the sake of variety?

I see... you understood nothing of what I was saying.

I understood it fine. I understood that it to be one more of your
entreaties to believe a bunch of your claims, not through evidence and
sound reasoning but through entreaty and insult. I understood that it
was the same muddleheaded approach you've been taking all along.

As blind as you
are, you should be a preacher.
Simply, your IQ is too low

"Do you believe everything Du¹an says just because he begs you to
believe it?" is not a question found on an IQ test. And if it were, the
answer "No" would be the correct one.

 > for a such complex linguistic matter.

Yes, it is complex--so complex that "because I say so" and "you're blind
if you don't agree with me" are hopelessly inappropriate approaches to
it, yet those are the only ones you know.

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections? No, you
have not, you are just repeating the same prattle like a heavy
drunkard: "it's nothing!", "it's wrong"....

If you think that my HSF theory is delusive then I do not understand
your steady (unnatural) efforts to disprove it in general. To disprove
something you must prove it false by using the valid argumentation;
you normally have to provide evidences, is it not? Where are your
evidences?

Once again, try to be concrete (as Lorad for instance) and my answer
will be precise and polite as it always was when I dealt with people
who knew how to use the brain.

DV
Harlan Messinger
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:37 am
Guest
Dušan Vukotić wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 5, 1:41 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net

You are unable to see that Lat. sorbeo is derived from the same basis
as acerbo (to make bitter, to aggravate) and Serb. crpeti (draw,
deplete, exhaust) and that basis was Xur-Bel-Gon;
In the same sense that he is unable to see that 2 + 2 = 5. Once again,
you rely not on proving anything but on imploring people to share your
imagination

Are you able to say anything concrete instead of repeating the same
"mantra" constantly?

As long as you keep operating the same way, the response will be the
same. Do you expect the answer to "What is 2 + 2?" to change to
something other than 4 just for the sake of variety?

Quote:
I see... you understood nothing of what I was saying.

I understood it fine. I understood that it to be one more of your
entreaties to believe a bunch of your claims, not through evidence and
sound reasoning but through entreaty and insult. I understood that it
was the same muddleheaded approach you've been taking all along.

Quote:
As blind as you
are, you should be a preacher.
Simply, your IQ is too low
"Do you believe everything Dušan says just because he begs you to

believe it?" is not a question found on an IQ test. And if it were, the
answer "No" would be the correct one.

Quote:
for a such complex linguistic matter.

Yes, it is complex--so complex that "because I say so" and "you're blind
if you don't agree with me" are hopelessly inappropriate approaches to
it, yet those are the only ones you know.
Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:11 pm
Guest
On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote:
Du¹an Vukotiæ wrote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?

No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.

Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.
You can not falsify my theory without reading it at all. Your
prejudice is your problem and your "superiority complex" is making a
complete idiot of you. Just on these thread you have enough material
to prove me wrong; only what you need is the following: find the weak
point in my "structure", fill it with your "dynamite" evidences and
ignite the "fuse". As you can see, it is a piece of cake! What are you
waiting for?

Quote:
"Everything I say is true unless someone proves
otherwise" is not the way the world works.

Just like that... unless someone refutes my statements with a well-
grounded counter-arguments, my statements shall stand here as valid.

DV
Harlan Messinger
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:33 pm
Guest
Du¹an Vukotiæ wrote:
Quote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?

No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct. "Everything I say is true unless someone proves
otherwise" is not the way the world works.
Harlan Messinger
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:40 pm
Guest
Dušan Vukotić wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Du¹an Vukotiæ wrote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?
No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.

Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.

No. I don't. If you haven't provided any reason to believe they are true
besides, "because I say so", then they remain unproven, and if nobody
believed them before you claimed them, why in the world do you suppose
that anyone would believe them after you do?

Quote:
You can not falsify my theory without reading it at all. Your
prejudice is your problem and your "superiority complex" is making a
complete idiot of you.

Not holding *you* to be superior is not a superiority complex.

Quote:
Just on these thread you have enough material
to prove me wrong;

If you're right, why are you completely, hopelessly, definitively unable
to prove it? You keep speaking of your discoveries, yet you have
"discovered" *nothing*, only hypothesized, accompanied by the inability
or lack of desire to show that your hypotheses are facts rather than
imagination

Quote:
only what you need is the following: find the weak
point in my "structure", fill it with your "dynamite" evidences and
ignite the "fuse". As you can see, it is a piece of cake! What are you
waiting for?

"Everything I say is true unless someone proves
otherwise" is not the way the world works.

Just like that... unless someone refutes my statements with a well-
grounded counter-arguments, my statements shall stand here as valid.

Assuming you mean *true* rather than "valid" (which applies to
reasoning, not statements): wow. If that's what you think, then you are
genuinely delusional. (I *know* your reasoning leans heavily toward the
invalid side. Time and time again, when you *have* tried to exercise
something resembling reasoning, it's been packed with flaws and fallacies.)
Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:50 pm
Guest
On Apr 6, 2:40 am, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Du¹an Vukoti¿ wrote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?
No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.

Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.

No. I don't. If you haven't provided any reason to believe they are true
besides, "because I say so", then they remain unproven, and if nobody
believed them before you claimed them, why in the world do you suppose
that anyone would believe them after you do?

Every intelligent person can see that you are using the "broken
record" method. Simply, you are reapeating, time after time, the same
string of denying words. You don't even try to read what I have
written, because you are "genuinely" and a priori convinced that
anything I say must be incorrect. Of course, I have nothing against
your inferential and negatory observation, although I am earnestly
surprised by your zealotry, which is evident in your efforts to debunk
my statements on the feeble and doubtful grounds of a certain (known
only to you) "general principles".

The fact is, anyone who is trying to establish a new theory must
appreciate any concrete (substantial) critical reflection (positive or
negative), because it is a chance to check the cogency and solidity of
someone's ideas or hypothetical thoughts in reality.


Quote:
Just on these thread you have enough material
to prove me wrong;

If you're right, why are you completely, hopelessly, definitively unable
to prove it? You keep speaking of your discoveries, yet you have
"discovered" *nothing*, only hypothesized, accompanied by the inability
or lack of desire to show that your hypotheses are facts rather than
imagination

Don't you know that any new "theory" can only be a hypothesis, at
least after the time when a certain hypotheses is either accepted or
rejected by the majority of renowned world scientists.

Quote:
only what you need is the following: find the weak
point in my "structure",  fill it with your "dynamite" evidences and
ignite the "fuse". As you can see, it is a piece of cake! What are you
waiting for?

"Everything I say is true unless someone proves
otherwise" is not the way the world works.

Just like that... unless someone refutes my statements with a well-
grounded counter-arguments, my statements shall stand here as valid.

Assuming you mean *true* rather than "valid" (which applies to
reasoning, not statements): wow. If that's what you think, then you are
genuinely delusional. (I *know* your reasoning leans heavily toward the
invalid side. Time and time again, when you *have* tried to exercise
something resembling reasoning, it's been packed with flaws and fallacies.)

When I say "valid" I mean "valid" (well-grounded). It is a maximum I
can say about my HSF "theory". Once again, I think that my hypothesis
is logically valid and hope that it will be proven true in the near
future.

DV
Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:51 am
Guest
On Apr 7, 4:41 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net>

Quote:
You don't even try to read what I have
written,

Yes, I do, and every time it turns out to be yet another unproven
assertion.

My statements are always proven, but you have to learn to read my
words exactly as it is written. I can not use the standard linguistic
methods, especially not the "reconstructed" PIE roots and the so-
called Laryngeal Theory, in order to prove the exactness of my
findings; simply because those methods are obsolete and worthless for
a serious scientific work in the field of historical linguistics.

How do you expect me to prove the relation among the words like Slavic
zemlja, Greek Σεμέλη, Latin globus and humus, Serbian h(l)um-ka; Russ.
holm (mound, a small hill). If you started from the "standard"
*dg'hem- root you wouldn't be able to explain words like Serbian
gomila, Latin cumulus, Serb. klobuk (clod, cap), oblak (cloud), kalpak
(cap), oklop (armor), glava (head), which are close cognates to Slavic
zemlja and Greek χώμα...

The only way to make it clear how all the above words have been
developed through the history is to use my HSF method; i.e. we need to
"apply" the Xur-Gon-Bel "formula", in this case it would be the Gon-
Bel-Gon ur-basis.

Quote:
Are you expecting to keep doing the same stupid thing,
despite having been criticized for it hundreds of times, and suddenly,
one day, have a different outcome?

Only stuped or careless people could say that I kept doing "the same
stupid thing".. There are only two reasons for such behaviour, you are
either brainless or so self-conceited that you cannot admit anything
that doesn't belong to the world of your swellheaded mental
"resourcefulness".

DV
Guest
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:10 am
On 6 huhti, 02:11, Duðan Vukotiã <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger

hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Du¹an Vukoti¿ wrote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?

No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.

Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.

Nope, he does not need to do anything like that. In science, the one
who is proposing a new theory is the one who shall prove his theory.
Not the other way round.
Harlan Messinger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:41 am
Guest
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 6, 2:40 am, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Du¹an Vukoti¿ wrote:
The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?
No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.
Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.
No. I don't. If you haven't provided any reason to believe they are true
besides, "because I say so", then they remain unproven, and if nobody
believed them before you claimed them, why in the world do you suppose
that anyone would believe them after you do?

Every intelligent person can see that you are using the "broken
record" method. Simply, you are reapeating, time after time, the same
string of denying words.

Because they're the words that are applicable each and every time you,
like a broken record, make the same kind of unproven assertions.

Quote:
You don't even try to read what I have
written,

Yes, I do, and every time it turns out to be yet another unproven
assertion. Are you expecting to keep doing the same stupid thing,
despite having been criticized for it hundreds of times, and suddenly,
one day, have a different outcome?

It doesn't occur to you that if you stop making unsupported assertions,
then you'll stop getting criticized for making unsupported assertions.
Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:32 am
Guest
On Apr 7, 9:10 pm, Craoibhi...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On 6 huhti, 02:11, Duðan Vukotiã <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger

hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Du¹an Vukoti¿ wrote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?

No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.

Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.

Nope, he does not need to do anything like that. In science, the one
who is proposing a new theory is the one who shall prove his theory.
Not the other way round.

Let's ask Giordano Bruno: "Time is the father of truth!"

DV
Peter T. Daniels
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:50 am
Guest
On Apr 7, 2:51 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 7, 4:41 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net

You don't even try to read what I have
written,

Yes, I do, and every time it turns out to be yet another unproven
assertion.

My statements are always proven, but you have to learn to read my
words exactly as it is written. I can not use the standard linguistic
methods, especially not the "reconstructed" PIE roots and the so-
called Laryngeal Theory, in order to prove the exactness of my
findings; simply because those methods are obsolete and worthless for
a serious scientific work in the field of historical linguistics.

How do you expect me to prove the relation among the words like Slavic
zemlja, Greek Σεμέλη, Latin globus and humus, Serbian h(l)um-ka; Russ.
holm (mound, a small hill). If you started from the "standard"
*dg'hem- root you wouldn't be able to explain words like Serbian
gomila, Latin cumulus, Serb. klobuk (clod, cap), oblak (cloud), kalpak
(cap), oklop (armor), glava (head), which are close cognates to Slavic
zemlja and Greek χώμα...

By showing, step by step, how each of the attested words developed out
of whichever basis you postulate -- keeping in mind that at every step
your procedures have to also generate all the related words in all the
languages you didn't happen to include in your initial list.
Guest
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:41 pm
On 7 huhti, 23:32, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 7, 9:10 pm, Craoibhi...@gmail.com wrote:



On 6 huhti, 02:11, Duðan Vukotiã <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:33 pm, Harlan Messinger

hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Du¹an Vukoti¿ wrote:

The essential question is, have you any concrete objections?

No, the essential question is whether you can demonstrate that your
statements are correct.

Of course, as well as you have to show that my statements are wrong.

Nope, he does not need to do anything like that. In science, the one
who is proposing a new theory is the one who shall prove his theory.
Not the other way round.

Let's ask Giordano Bruno: "Time is the father of truth!"

You aren't Giordano Bruno.
Harlan Messinger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:04 pm
Guest
Dušan Vukotić wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 7, 4:41 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net

You don't even try to read what I have
written,
Yes, I do, and every time it turns out to be yet another unproven
assertion.

My statements are always proven,

Listing a string of words with sometimes the faintest of phonetic (or
sometimes only orthographical) resemblence and saying, "What do you
think of this?" is not proof. I have NEVER seen you prove any system set
of correspondences that would lead to a reasonable conclusion that a
connection is more than your mere supposition.

Quote:
but you have to learn to read my
words exactly as it is written. I can not use the standard linguistic
methods,

If you can't do brain surgery, then don't do brain surgery.

Quote:
especially not the "reconstructed" PIE roots and the so-
called Laryngeal Theory, in order to prove the exactness of my
findings; simply because those methods are obsolete and worthless for
a serious scientific work in the field of historical linguistics.

When did they become obsolete? Is it, just like everything else, because
you say so?

Quote:
How do you expect me to prove the relation among the words like Slavic
zemlja, Greek Σεμέλη, Latin globus and humus, Serbian h(l)um-ka; Russ.
holm (mound, a small hill).

Gee, somehow *real* historical linguists know how to do these things. If
you would read books about historical linguistics to find out how it's
done, then you would know how to do it. And, by the way, "I don't know
how to prove it, so I get special dispensation for making claims without
proof" doesn't work.
Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:55 pm
Guest
On Apr 8, 1:44 am, Bart Mathias <math...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
Quote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
 Duðan Vukotiã wrote:

[...]
You don't even try to read what I have
written,

Yes, I do, [...]

I, for one, keep wondering why.

It doesn't occur to you that if you stop making unsupported assertions,
then you'll stop getting criticized for making unsupported assertions.

And what would happen if people quit wasting their time criticizing?

I guess it's all in fun.

Bart Mathias

Your mother lived a nice meaningful life and then she gave birth to
you...

DV
Du¹an Vukotiæ
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:35 pm
Guest
On Apr 7, 9:04 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net>

Quote:
especially not the "reconstructed" PIE roots and the so-
called Laryngeal Theory, in order to prove the exactness of my
findings; simply because those methods are obsolete and worthless for
a serious scientific work in the field of historical linguistics.

When did they become obsolete? Is it, just like everything else, because
you say so?

Can you not see that heaven and Ger. Himmel (heaven) are derived from
the same "source" as Nebel (fog) or Serb. nebo (sky)? According to
"modern" root-diggers, English heaven is derived from a sufixed form
*ke-men-, while German Nebel and Latin nebula, Greek nephele as well
as Serbian nebo (sky) "sprang" from the root *nebh-. It is the reason
why I am saying that the main principles on which the "reconstructed"
PIE "roots" are based are obsolete and useless.

DV
 
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