calderh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:461a7fe7-d904-4955-9306-9d7a7a5a2991@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...



Here's another appalling aspect of the immoral biofuel business. I
call it "immoral" because it is a sin to starve people in order to
feed cars and trucks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/01/biofuels.energy

Demands for crackdown on biofuels scam - US 'splash and dash' loophole
undermines climate change fight

Terry Macalister - The Guardian, Tuesday

The EU is being urged to take action to stop a biofuel trading scam
that exploits US agricultural subsidies and undermines the fight
against global warming.
Up to 10% of biofuel exports from the US to Europe are believed to be
part of the rogue scheme reaping big profits for agricultural trading
firms.

The "splash and dash" scam involves shipping biodiesel from Europe to
the US where a dash of fuel is added, allowing traders to claim 11p a
litre of US subsidy for the entire cargo. It is then shipped back and
sold below domestic prices, undercutting Europe's biofuel industry.

The trade is not illegal, but flouts the spirit of producing green
fuel by transporting it needlessly across the Atlantic at a time when
campaigners are voicing concern about emissions from global shipping.

The producers' body, the European Biodiesel Board, has uncovered the
trade as part of its investigation into why British, German and
Spanish producers are in financial trouble at a time when biodiesel
prices remain high. The board will call for retaliatory action against
the US over subsidies for its leading biofuel.

Biofuels are plant-based oils from crops such as soy and corn. They
are expensive to produce but have become relatively cheaper as the
price of crude oil has risen to more than $100 a barrel. It is
estimated that 10% of the 1m tonnes of biodiesel exported from the US
to Europe is part of the splash and dash trade.

Doug Ward, director of a Scottish biofuel company and British
representative on the board, said a full report on the impact of US
fuels would be finalised within days. It is expected to recommend that
the European commission initiate an anti-dumping action against
Washington for the subsidy. "We could have sold our product cheaper if
we took it over to the US and brought it back," he said. "No one is
doing anything illegal, but environmentally it's a disaster," he said.
The cheap cost of shipping makes the trade profitable for those
involved.

Ian Waller, a biofuel consultant at the firm FiveBarGate said he
visited the southern states of the US last October and spoke to firms
about splash and dash.

"You get the subsidy for the act of blending, so people are bringing
boats of soy or palm-based biodiesel from Europe and then mixing it
with a bit of local biodiesel - or even fossil-fuel diesel - and then
shipping it back," he said. US producers worried about the trade also
call it the U-boat trade because vessels arrive and then almost
immediately return, he said.

Andrew Owens, chief executive of Greenergy, a biofuel supplier part-
owned by Tesco, said his company was doing all it could to eliminate
the rogue practice. "We are rigorous about our supply chain and
careful about where we source bioethanol and biodiesel, but it can
always sneak in if we have to buy a one-off cargo in Rotterdam to fill
a gap ... We try and avoid splash and dash at all costs," he said.

The European Biodiesel Board has been encouraged to act against
subsidised US exports of biofuel because Britain and other European
countries have complained that their industries are being destroyed.
Producers are concerned the US is flooding the market with subsidised
fuel when facilities are standing empty in Germany. D1 Oils, a
Teesside-based biofuel business, is considering halving its workforce
due to the problems caused by US imports.

A competitor, Biofuels Corporation, was taken off the stock market
after suffering its own problems, but BP said it was pressing ahead
with a biobutanol plant at Hull in cooperation with Associated British
Foods.

In a fortnight Britain will introduce demands that 2.5% of all petrol
and diesel is made up of non-carbon fuels. The rules will require
companies to provide information about sourcing their biodiesel,
potentially cutting out splash and dash.

------------

For the full story of the biofuel disaster, see
http://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

Christopher Calder

This is a condemnation of certain business practices like dumping, splash
and dash and taking unfair advantage of subsidies. It is not a condemnation
of biofuels per se. If anything it a plea for more regulation and control of
business that has used the acceleration of fuel prices and policies to
unfair advantage.

Biofuels are here to stay and no amount of nay saying and sky is falling,
they're starving in India crapola is going to change it. Biofuels will
become a significant portion of our energy supplies as we move into the
future. You can't stop it.

"bill" <ford_prefec...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:998052c2-fd6f-4b20-a66c-31426d5fc54a@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Cut.....



Bob, "alternative" fuels ARE going to need to make up an increasing
share of the energy profile. However, crop fuels never will. The
EROEI is not there nor is the available quantity of energy.

What we need to do, and I can show you the numbers to back this, is
build nuclear power plants HELL FOR LEATHER! This will free up a
whole lot of coal, which can then be converted to a liquid fuel for
running cars for a while. This plan buys us 30 years minimum in which
to develop and deploy both battery technology AND solar/wind/nuclear
electric production. What we are doing now (ethanol) legitimately IS
killing people, and more will die.... probably tens of thousands,
before it can be undone. In the meantime, the far east demand is in
fact skyrocketing (to almost 1/4 of european per-capita demand!!) and
there's no new oil production coming online to offset the increasing
demand. This whole thing has nothing to do with "big oil", "greedy
americans", or george fucking bush, it's got to do with hard numbers
in the real world, not political ravings regardless of who is on the
soapbox.

The biggest mistake that has ever been made by humanity is letting
energy become a political issue rather than an engineering one.

Nuclear power may be part of the solution, but unfortunately, there is very
little activity in the design, planning and licensing of new plants. They
are very expensive and take at least 10 years to approve and build. Nobody
is planning or building nuclear power "HELL FOR LEATHER." Maybe they should
be, but they are not at the present time. To go beyond that of producing
hydrogen, liquid fuels and so on with nuclear power is nice to talk about
but there are NO plans, no designs or serious proposals to accomplish it. At
this point it is pie in the sky and would be at least 20 years before any
such plants are on line.

Crop biofuels are here and now. They are producing today and are making a
dent in the energy equation and will continue to do so. Yes, they are not
the best solution for the longer term but cellulostic plants, algae plants
and others are being researched and planned. Pilot operations are in
existence and in a few years full scale operations that do not use food or
valuable crop land will be on line and making a difference.

Be careful to not buy into the Exxon propaganda that biofuels are bad,
people are starving and the sky is falling. There are many factors affecting
food, most notably drought and also American exports and the value of the
dollar and the price of oil. Biofuels are a small percentage. The statement
that biofuels are killing thousands of people is absurd and pure propaganda
from the naysayers. You know you can't name ONE person who was killed by
biofuels nor can you prove a link to some alleged starvation somewhere. The
Exxons of the world are trying to kill biofuels because they don't want the
competition. Don't be a shill for them.

Bob, "alternative" fuels ARE going to need to make up an increasing
share of the energy profile. However, crop fuels never will. The
EROEI is not there nor is the available quantity of energy.

What we need to do, and I can show you the numbers to back this, is
build nuclear power plants HELL FOR LEATHER! This will free up a
whole lot of coal, which can then be converted to a liquid fuel for
running cars for a while. This plan buys us 30 years minimum in which
to develop and deploy both battery technology AND solar/wind/nuclear
electric production. What we are doing now (ethanol) legitimately IS
killing people, and more will die.... probably tens of thousands,
before it can be undone. In the meantime, the far east demand is in
fact skyrocketing (to almost 1/4 of european per-capita demand!!) and
there's no new oil production coming online to offset the increasing
demand. This whole thing has nothing to do with "big oil", "greedy
americans", or george fucking bush, it's got to do with hard numbers
in the real world, not political ravings regardless of who is on the
soapbox.

The biggest mistake that has ever been made by humanity is letting
energy become a political issue rather than an engineering one.

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote in messagenews:eCxIj..11394$p97.9844@trnddc03...


The military issue is a big one, especially nearly a trillion squandered in
Iraq. But none of this has much to do with alternative energy and biofuels..
You may think them a joke but I think they offer great promise to help get
us out of sending our national treasure to Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. That
is an absolutely absurd situation we should never have gotten ourselves
into.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree completely... but I'm more angry at the windfall profits the oil companies
are making by gouging us in the pocketbook. Although the real joke is sending
hundreds of billions a year to support the military machines of Pakistan and Israel
so we can keep stealing the oil.

Nothing stops you from buying oil company stock or oil futures.

So, then support that Dem senator who wants to add a 50 cent tax on gasoline.

what will happen is the price will just go up 50 cents.

Who is screwing us is the environmental lobby, they are regulating the oil
companies right out of existence along with a lot of other things.

Start writing your state and fed congress people demanding they drop the state
and federal taxes on gasoline and diesel.

Demand they make it economically
feasible to build more refineries.

Demand they start building new Nuclear power plants.

Or you can just go on and stick to the notion that you're some kind of victim
of "big oil" and the evil republicans.

The biggest mistake that has ever been made by humanity is letting
energy become a political issue rather than an engineering one.

Be careful to not buy into the Exxon propaganda that biofuels are bad,
people are starving and the sky is falling.

France built over 100 nuclear power plants in 17
years from decision to completion, Those plants provide more net
energy than the gross world production of ethanol. This shows exactly
how limited the validity of your objection truly is.

Hmm, so you base your belief on a movie designed for entertainment?

another mindless conspiracy theory from the loony left.

"bill" <ford_prefec...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
The biggest mistake that has ever been made by humanity is letting
energy become a political issue rather than anengineeringone.

IOW, it was letting big oil BUY the federal government and set policy.

That's complacency, apathy, and greed on the part of the American people....
a completely different issue fromengineering, which could have bailed us
out of this mess 20 years ago were it not for crooked politicians and sleeping
citizens.

        "The moment war is declared... the mass of the people, through
        some spiritual alchemy, become convinced that they have willed
        and executed the deed themselves. They then, with the exception
        of a few malcontents, proceed to allow themselves to be regimented,
        coerced, deranged in all the environments of their lives, and turned
        into a solid manufactory of destruction toward whatever other people
        may have, in the appointed scheme of things, come within the range
        of the Government's disapprobation...
                             -- Randolph Bourne, "The State", 1918

Here's another appalling aspect of the immoral biofuel business.  I
call it "immoral" because it is a sin to starve people in order to
feed cars and trucks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/01/biofuels.energy

Demands for crackdown on biofuels scam - US 'splash and dash' loophole
undermines climate change fight

Terry Macalister - The Guardian,   Tuesday

The EU is being urged to take action to stop a biofuel trading scam
that exploits US agricultural subsidies and undermines the fight
against global warming.
Up to 10% of biofuel exports from the US to Europe are believed to be
part of the rogue scheme reaping big profits for agricultural trading
firms.

The "splash and dash" scam involves shipping biodiesel from Europe to
the US where a dash of fuel is added, allowing traders to claim 11p a
litre of US subsidy for the entire cargo. It is then shipped back and
sold below domestic prices, undercutting Europe's biofuel industry.

The trade is not illegal, but flouts the spirit of producing green
fuel by transporting it needlessly across the Atlantic at a time when
campaigners are voicing concern about emissions from global shipping.

The producers' body, the European Biodiesel Board, has uncovered the
trade as part of its investigation into why British, German and
Spanish producers are in financial trouble at a time when biodiesel
prices remain high. The board will call for retaliatory action against
the US over subsidies for its leading biofuel.

Biofuels are plant-based oils from crops such as soy and corn. They
are expensive to produce but have become relatively cheaper as the
price of crude oil has risen to more than $100 a barrel. It is
estimated that 10% of the 1m tonnes of biodiesel exported from the US
to Europe is part of the splash and dash trade.

Doug Ward, director of a Scottish biofuel company and British
representative on the board, said a full report on the impact of US
fuels would be finalised within days. It is expected to recommend that
the European commission initiate an anti-dumping action against
Washington for the subsidy. "We could have sold our product cheaper if
we took it over to the US and brought it back," he said. "No one is
doing anything illegal, but environmentally it's a disaster," he said.
The cheap cost of shipping makes the trade profitable for those
involved.

Ian Waller, a biofuel consultant at the firm FiveBarGate said he
visited the southern states of the US last October and spoke to firms
about splash and dash.

"You get the subsidy for the act of blending, so people are bringing
boats of soy or palm-based biodiesel from Europe and then mixing it
with a bit of local biodiesel - or even fossil-fuel diesel - and then
shipping it back," he said. US producers worried about the trade also
call it the U-boat trade because vessels arrive and then almost
immediately return, he said.

Andrew Owens, chief executive of Greenergy, a biofuel supplier part-
owned by Tesco, said his company was doing all it could to eliminate
the rogue practice. "We are rigorous about our supply chain and
careful about where we source bioethanol and biodiesel, but it can
always sneak in if we have to buy a one-off cargo in Rotterdam to fill
a gap ... We try and avoid splash and dash at all costs," he said.

The European Biodiesel Board has been encouraged to act against
subsidised US exports of biofuel because Britain and other European
countries have complained that their industries are being destroyed.
Producers are concerned the US is flooding the market with subsidised
fuel when facilities are standing empty in Germany. D1 Oils, a
Teesside-based biofuel business, is considering halving its workforce
due to the problems caused by US imports.

A competitor, Biofuels Corporation, was taken off the stock market
after suffering its own problems, but BP said it was pressing ahead
with a biobutanol plant at Hull in cooperation with Associated British
Foods.

In a fortnight Britain will introduce demands that 2.5% of all petrol
and diesel is made up of non-carbon fuels. The rules will require
companies to provide information about sourcing their biodiesel,
potentially cutting out splash and dash.

------------

For the full story of the biofuel disaster, seehttp://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

Christopher Calder