Today an Italian man who presented himself as a "vision educator"
phoned me about the Italian version of Perfect Sight Without Glasses
he wanted to buy.

I had to tell him that the book is sold out and is now in reprint and
will be ready for deliver in a couple of weeks.

Then I shared with him a good conversation.

Even if he is a "vision educator" he is not accustomed to the Original
Bates System. In fact, he not only does not understand how to benefit
from the sun-gazing, neither from the sun-glass, but he never tried
the experimenr of low light and microprint, I have learnt.

He promised me that he would have tried this soon.

He is a researcher and told me than most advanced theories about
vision are discovering the hidden powers of the external muscles of
the eye, and this is slowly being acknowledge in academic sites,
exactly in the same direction as Bates did. It seems that only the
idiots doctors here on sci.med.vision seem to not cope with this fact.

Nevertheless, he is not so much sure about his own understanding of
Bates work that felt the urge to try my edition of PSWG. Also to
subscribe to my magazine "il falco". He lives in the States, and has a
story of hypermetropia, which he thinks he can definitely cure after
he has spoken to me.

To one question, he answered that when he was at Columbia University
in New York he tried to reach some documents about Bates but became
aware that all was effaced out, he could not find anything about him.

I hope to work with him soon because he showed a kind of open mind
which is not there when I have something to do with idiots like
Cagnoli and Co., the mainstream "vision educators" in Italy. These
people have spoiled the name of Bates for their own purpose, that is
selling their courses and programs which have nothing to do with the
Original Bates System.

"Friends" of Bates are largely great frauds, great false men. They
understand nothing of Him. In fact, nobody gets a cure, and Bates
himself gets mocked at by other idiots like the ignorant men we find
here.

--
"As surely as any soldier ever died on the field, Dr. Bates gave his
life for a cause, battling against fate, during many years of
magnificent struggle, when the unending disappointment finally broke
in hopeless despair. His torch is still burning. There will come some
other battler, who is fit, and will hold it high until the people who
are sitting in darkness have seen its great light."
William B. MacCracken, M.D.
(1937, Berkeley CA)

Thank you Rishi. Like I have even said before, many people do not
truly understand what the Bates Method is. That is why I think it
would be best to get together and conduct some studies, then contact
researchers in various parts of the world, maybe in Europe, since they
seem more open-minded and more socialistic than the capitalists here
in the US.

Kory

Rishigg wrote:
Today an Italian man who presented himself as a "vision educator"
phoned me about the Italian version of Perfect Sight Without Glasses
he wanted to buy.

I had to tell him that the book is sold out and is now in reprint and
will be ready for deliver in a couple of weeks.

Then I shared with him a good conversation.

Even if he is a "vision educator" he is not accustomed to the Original
Bates System. In fact, he not only does not understand how to benefit
from the sun-gazing, neither from the sun-glass, but he never tried
the experimenr of low light and microprint, I have learnt.

He promised me that he would have tried this soon.

He is a researcher and told me than most advanced theories about
vision are discovering the hidden powers of the external muscles of
the eye, and this is slowly being acknowledge in academic sites,
exactly in the same direction as Bates did. It seems that only the
idiots doctors here on sci.med.vision seem to not cope with this fact.

Nevertheless, he is not so much sure about his own understanding of
Bates work that felt the urge to try my edition of PSWG. Also to
subscribe to my magazine "il falco". He lives in the States, and has a
story of hypermetropia, which he thinks he can definitely cure after
he has spoken to me.

To one question, he answered that when he was at Columbia University
in New York he tried to reach some documents about Bates but became
aware that all was effaced out, he could not find anything about him.

I hope to work with him soon because he showed a kind of open mind
which is not there when I have something to do with idiots like
Cagnoli and Co., the mainstream "vision educators" in Italy. These
people have spoiled the name of Bates for their own purpose, that is
selling their courses and programs which have nothing to do with the
Original Bates System.

"Friends" of Bates are largely great frauds, great false men. They
understand nothing of Him. In fact, nobody gets a cure, and Bates
himself gets mocked at by other idiots like the ignorant men we find
here.

--
"As surely as any soldier ever died on the field, Dr. Bates gave his
life for a cause, battling against fate, during many years of
magnificent struggle, when the unending disappointment finally broke
in hopeless despair. His torch is still burning. There will come some
other battler, who is fit, and will hold it high until the people who
are sitting in darkness have seen its great light."
William B. MacCracken, M.D.
(1937, Berkeley CA)

On 30 Mar, 12:58, Kory Postma <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com
wrote:



Thank you Rishi. Like I have even said before, many people do not
truly understand what the Bates Method is. That is why I think it
would be best to get together and conduct some studies, then contact
researchers in various parts of the world, maybe in Europe, since they
seem more open-minded and more socialistic than the capitalists here
in the US.

Kory

Rishigg wrote:
Today an Italian man who presented himself as a "vision educator"
phoned me about the Italian version of Perfect Sight Without Glasses
he wanted to buy.

I had to tell him that the book is sold out and is now in reprint and
will be ready for deliver in a couple of weeks.

Then I shared with him a good conversation.

Even if he is a "vision educator" he is not accustomed to the Original
Bates System. In fact, he not only does not understand how to benefit
from the sun-gazing, neither from the sun-glass, but he never tried
the experimenr of low light and microprint, I have learnt.

He promised me that he would have tried this soon.

He is a researcher and told me than most advanced theories about
vision are discovering the hidden powers of the external muscles of
the eye, and this is slowly being acknowledge in academic sites,
exactly in the same direction as Bates did. It seems that only the
idiots doctors here on sci.med.vision seem to not cope with this fact.

Nevertheless, he is not so much sure about his own understanding of
Bates work that felt the urge to try my edition of PSWG. Also to
subscribe to my magazine "il falco". He lives in the States, and has a
story of hypermetropia, which he thinks he can definitely cure after
he has spoken to me.

To one question, he answered that when he was at Columbia University
in New York he tried to reach some documents about Bates but became
aware that all was effaced out, he could not find anything about him.

I hope to work with him soon because he showed a kind of open mind
which is not there when I have something to do with idiots like
Cagnoli and Co., the mainstream "vision educators" in Italy. These
people have spoiled the name of Bates for their own purpose, that is
selling their courses and programs which have nothing to do with the
Original Bates System.

"Friends" of Bates are largely great frauds, great false men. They
understand nothing of Him. In fact, nobody gets a cure, and Bates
himself gets mocked at by other idiots like the ignorant men we find
here.

--
"As surely as any soldier ever died on the field, Dr. Bates gave his
life for a cause, battling against fate, during many years of
magnificent struggle, when the unending disappointment finally broke
in hopeless despair. His torch is still burning. There will come some
other battler, who is fit, and will hold it high until the people who
are sitting in darkness have seen its great light."
William B. MacCracken, M.D.
(1937, Berkeley CA)

Now there's a thought. Make sure that you publish the results even if
negative.

DrG

Thank you Rishi. Like I have even said before, many people do not
truly understand what the Bates Method is.

Kory Postma <kor...@NOhotSPAMmail.com> wrote in message <news:

3cc2072c103683f24bd69a2dfacf9...@free.teranews.com>...

Thank you Rishi. Like I have even said before, many people do not
truly understand what the Bates Method is.

Can you provide us with a statement as to what YOU think the Bates
Method is??

And please don't say "a program to eliminate glasses". If that's your
claim, then say "a program to eliminate glasses BY..........."

Maybe you can help all us uneducated docs "truly understand what the
Bates Method is"

nipidoc

Kory Postma <kor...@NOhotSPAMmail.com> wrote in message <news:

3cc2072c103683f24bd69a2dfacf9...@free.teranews.com>...

Thank you Rishi. Like I have even said before, many people do not
truly understand what the Bates Method is.

Can you provide us with a statement as to what YOU think the Bates
Method is??

And please don't say "a program to eliminate glasses". If that's your
claim, then say "a program to eliminate glasses BY..........."

Maybe you can help all us uneducated docs "truly understand what the
Bates Method is"

nipidoc

oppositional movement), blink often and be able to remember things
exactly as they are meant to be seen, then the vision will improve.

"Kory Postma" <kor...@NOhotSPAMmail.com> wrote

oppositional movement), blink often and be able to remember things
exactly as they are meant to be seen, then the vision will improve.

I missed something. What happens to make the vision improve?

Does this work for myopia, hyperopia, astigmatism, presbyopia?

-MT

On 30 Mar, 13:04, Mike Tyner <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Kory Postma" <kor...@NOhotSPAMmail.com> wrote

oppositional movement), blink often and be able to remember things
exactly as they are meant to be seen, then the vision will improve.

I missed something. What happens to make the vision improve?

Does this work for myopia, hyperopia, astigmatism, presbyopia?

-MT

The fact that the person is unlearning bad habits and becoming more
relaxed and also having a clear mind and memory, that will improve the
sight. I may be a little wrong, but this is what I remember after
reading Bates.

Kory

On 30 Mar, 13:05, Kory Postma <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com
wrote:



On 30 Mar, 13:04, Mike Tyner <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Kory Postma" <kor...@NOhotSPAMmail.com> wrote

oppositional movement), blink often and be able to remember things
exactly as they are meant to be seen, then the vision will improve.

I missed something. What happens to make the vision improve?

Does this work for myopia, hyperopia, astigmatism, presbyopia?

-MT

The fact that the person is unlearning bad habits and becoming more
relaxed and also having a clear mind and memory, that will improve the
sight. I may be a little wrong, but this is what I remember after
reading Bates.

Kory

Clearing the mind, improving the memory, and relaxing are all noble
goals.

But when it comes to describing specifically how (or even whether) it
reduces myopia, presbyopia, or astigmatism, we can't find good
evidence other than enthusiastic anecdotes.

Bates said it "improves sight". Maybe in a new-age sort of fashion, it
does. But it doesn't reduce structural anomalies and it can't be
relied on as a cure for macular degeneration or glaucoma or cataract.
There MIGHT even be some measurable effects. But doctors have to
recommend what DOES work first, before they recommend what MIGHT work
A LITTLE for SOME.

-MT

Mike, I think it would be best to become a little more familiar with
Bates. Would you like me to scan in a short piece that he had from
the magazines that would explain what an average first visit was like?

On 30 Mar, 13:06, Mike Tyner <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:



On 30 Mar, 13:05, Kory Postma <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com
wrote:

On 30 Mar, 13:04, Mike Tyner <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Kory Postma" <kor...@NOhotSPAMmail.com> wrote

oppositional movement), blink often and be able to remember things
exactly as they are meant to be seen, then the vision will improve.

I missed something. What happens to make the vision improve?

Does this work for myopia, hyperopia, astigmatism, presbyopia?

-MT

The fact that the person is unlearning bad habits and becoming more
relaxed and also having a clear mind and memory, that will improve the
sight. I may be a little wrong, but this is what I remember after
reading Bates.

Kory

Clearing the mind, improving the memory, and relaxing are all noble
goals.

But when it comes to describing specifically how (or even whether) it
reduces myopia, presbyopia, or astigmatism, we can't find good
evidence other than enthusiastic anecdotes.

Bates said it "improves sight". Maybe in a new-age sort of fashion, it
does. But it doesn't reduce structural anomalies and it can't be
relied on as a cure for macular degeneration or glaucoma or cataract.
There MIGHT even be some measurable effects. But doctors have to
recommend what DOES work first, before they recommend what MIGHT work
A LITTLE for SOME.

-MT

Actually Bates said it would work for everyone who did not have
organic problems (from accidents, etc.). But Bates only showed people
what to do, they would have to continue it at home and all day long.
They would then be seen 2-3 times a week.

Mike, I think it would be best to become a little more familiar with
Bates. Would you like me to scan in a short piece that he had from
the magazines that would explain what an average first visit was like?
Or if you would like any other info, and if I have time, I would be
willing to try to dig up whatever you like and post it here.

Kory

Kory wrote:
Mike, I think it would be best to become a little more familiar with
Bates. Would you like me to scan in a short piece that he had from
the magazines that would explain what an average first visit was like?

Kory, I read the Book. I read PSWG once years ago, again about 2
months ago, and I recently scanned through it again (online copy) to
make a list of several things he says that can't be true.

On 30 Mar, 13:09, Mike Tyner <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Kory wrote:
Mike, I think it would be best to become a little more familiar with
Bates. Would you like me to scan in a short piece that he had from
the magazines that would explain what an average first visit was like?

Kory, I read the Book. I read PSWG once years ago, again about 2
months ago, and I recently scanned through it again (online copy) to
make a list of several things he says that can't be true.

Could you share this list with us, and why they can't be true?

David

Bates: "That glasses cannot improve the sight to normal can be very simply
demonstrated by looking at any color through a strong convex or concave
glass.
It will be noted that the color is ALWAYS less intense than when seen with
the
naked eye; and since the perception of form depends upon the perception of
color, it follows that both color and form MUST be less distinctly seen with
glasses than without them." [emphasis mine]

I don't get the same results. Most of my patients see better color and form
_with_ their glasses than without them. Minus lenses minify and have barrel
distortion, but that doesn't outweigh seeing forms you can't see without
them,
seeing sharp borders between colors where they aren't blurred together.

Bates: "Even plane glass lowers the vision both for color and form, as
EVERYONE
knows who has ever looked out of a window."

I don't get that either. There's a difference, but I don't think "everyone"
notices it. Maybe glass is better these days? Spectacle lenses are clear on
the
edges, not green like windowpanes. Color distortion is measured by
spectroscopy
and the spectrograph of CR-39 is remarkably flat.

degree, when glasses are discarded, although the fact may not always be
noted. "

I don't get the same result. If you can't "note" improvement, where is it?
Refractive error simply does not go away when they take off their glasses.
Ask
patients who lose their glasses and make do without them for three months.
Their
refractions are not generally better. Every eye doctor can document anecdotes
that disprove this gross generalization, and very few to support it.

Bates: "That the human eye resents glasses is a fact which NO ONE would
attempt
to deny."

I would. Ask a hyperope or presbyope if his eyes feel better with or without
glasses.

Bates: "The strong concave glasses required by myopes of high degree make all
objects seem much smaller than they really are, while convex glasses enlarge
them. - These are unpleasantnesses that CANNOT be overcome."

But people overcome them all the time.

Bates: "ALL glasses contract the field of vision to a greater or less
degree."

Patently false. Minus spectacle lenses can increase the field of vision. They
don't always, but they certainly can be made to. Minus lenses minify, and
more
objects are "drawn into" the field.

Bates: "It has been demonstrated, however, that the lens is NOT A FACTOR,
either
in the production of accommodation, or in the correction of errors of
refraction. Therefore under NO circumstances can there be a strain of the
ciliary muscle to be relieved."

Patently false. No contribution at all? Ask any aphake. Ask yourself after
cycloplegia. Ask any eye surgeon - they pluck 'em out all the time and
usually
the other parts still work.

Bates: "It is fortunate that many people for whom glasses have been
prescribed
refuse to wear them, thus escaping not only much discomfort but much INJURY
to
their eyes."

This is particularly treacherous if they drive. Bates didn't have to meet his
patients on a dark rainy highway with 120 mph between them. I can't find this
INJURY he's talking about.