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Guest
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:30 pm
From:
http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

The First Fifteen Minutes of September 11th
Former Air Traffic Controller Robin Hordon speaks out
on 9/11, NORAD and what should have happened on 9/11.

By Jeremy Baker

Within three hours of the attacks on the World Trade Center and
Pentagon, Robin Hordon knew it was an inside job. He had been an Air
Traffic Controller (ATC) for eleven years before Reagan fired him and
hundreds of his colleagues after they went on strike in the eighties.
Having handled in-flight emergencies and two actual hijackings in his
career, he is well qualified to comment on what NORAD should have been
able to achieve in its response to the near simultaneous hijacking of
four domestic passenger carriers on the morning of September 11th,
2001.

"There had to be something huge to explain why those aircraft
weren't shot down out of the sky. We have fighters on the ready to
handle these situations twenty-four-seven. We have NORAD (North
American Aerospace Defense Command) monitors monitoring our skies
twenty-four-seven. We have a lot of human beings, civilian and
military, who care about doing their jobs."

I spoke to Mr. Hordon one afternoon at a coffee shop in Bremerton,
Washington.

"You have to understand the emotions, the duty, the job of an
ATC. We are paid to watch aircraft go across the country."

It's clear that Hordon is passionate about the subject. A lot of
people are. The dark questions that the attacks have left lingering in
the national psyche have been recorded. 49% of New Yorkers believe
that the government had something to do with 9/11. Following an
interview with Charlie Sheen, a CNN poll revealed that 82% of
respondents believed that there was "a government cover-up of 9/11."
Jay Leno asked Bill Maher on The Tonight Show about the fact that 37%
of Americans (according to Scribbs-Howard) believe that the government
was involved in some way with the attacks (Maher was definitely not
one of them).

<snip>
Freewhilin Frank
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:57 am
Guest
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:30:12 -0700 (PDT), knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:
From:
http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

The First Fifteen Minutes of September 11th
Former Air Traffic Controller Robin Hordon speaks out
on 9/11, NORAD and what should have happened on 9/11.

By Jeremy Baker

Within three hours of the attacks on the World Trade Center and
Pentagon, Robin Hordon knew it was an inside job. He had been an Air
Traffic Controller (ATC) for eleven years before Reagan fired him and
hundreds of his colleagues after they went on strike in the eighties.
Having handled in-flight emergencies and two actual hijackings in his
snip 9/11 loonacy

Lets see we have a fired air traffic controller, who was fired by the Reagan
Administration. That was the mid 80's and now it's 2008. Alot can change in
over 20 years. New procedures, new technology, new ways of doing things and
the cold war ended loosing up many procedures.

Nope, another loser's opinion is just like the other Trufers. Outdated,
unqualified, out of his capacity...about as much an expert as Alice in
Wonderland.
strabo
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:22 pm
Guest
Freewhilin Frank wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:30:12 -0700 (PDT), knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:

From:
http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

The First Fifteen Minutes of September 11th
Former Air Traffic Controller Robin Hordon speaks out
on 9/11, NORAD and what should have happened on 9/11.

By Jeremy Baker

Within three hours of the attacks on the World Trade Center and
Pentagon, Robin Hordon knew it was an inside job. He had been an Air
Traffic Controller (ATC) for eleven years before Reagan fired him and
hundreds of his colleagues after they went on strike in the eighties.
Having handled in-flight emergencies and two actual hijackings in his
snip 9/11 loonacy

Lets see we have a fired air traffic controller, who was fired by the Reagan
Administration. That was the mid 80's and now it's 2008. Alot can change in
over 20 years. New procedures, new technology, new ways of doing things and
the cold war ended loosing up many procedures.

Nope, another loser's opinion is just like the other Trufers. Outdated,
unqualified, out of his capacity...about as much an expert as Alice in
Wonderland.


You are either paid to lie and mislead or you're deluded.

I was in SAC. I know the the safeguards and procedures that were in
place then and on 9/11. Detection and protection against unauthorized
aircraft within US borders was initiated in 1947. The cessation of the
Cold War did not change this.

What he reported is true. What happened in Air Traffic Control and NORAD
on the morning of 9/11 was unprecedented. Under ordinary circumstances
none of those planes would have been allowed into Washington DC or NYC
airspace let alone crash into buildings.

Many facts are being concealed but ATC did speak out during and after
9/11. So have the AF pilots. That's a matter of record.

A massive cover up of 9/11 continues.



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Fred Kasner
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:53 pm
Guest
knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
From:
http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

The First Fifteen Minutes of September 11th
Former Air Traffic Controller Robin Hordon speaks out
on 9/11, NORAD and what should have happened on 9/11.

By Jeremy Baker

Within three hours of the attacks on the World Trade Center and
Pentagon, Robin Hordon knew it was an inside job. He had been an Air
Traffic Controller (ATC) for eleven years before Reagan fired him and
hundreds of his colleagues after they went on strike in the eighties.
Having handled in-flight emergencies and two actual hijackings in his
career, he is well qualified to comment on what NORAD should have been
able to achieve in its response to the near simultaneous hijacking of
four domestic passenger carriers on the morning of September 11th,
2001.

"There had to be something huge to explain why those aircraft
weren't shot down out of the sky. We have fighters on the ready to
handle these situations twenty-four-seven. We have NORAD (North
American Aerospace Defense Command) monitors monitoring our skies
twenty-four-seven. We have a lot of human beings, civilian and
military, who care about doing their jobs."

I spoke to Mr. Hordon one afternoon at a coffee shop in Bremerton,
Washington.

"You have to understand the emotions, the duty, the job of an
ATC. We are paid to watch aircraft go across the country."

It's clear that Hordon is passionate about the subject. A lot of
people are. The dark questions that the attacks have left lingering in
the national psyche have been recorded. 49% of New Yorkers believe
that the government had something to do with 9/11. Following an
interview with Charlie Sheen, a CNN poll revealed that 82% of
respondents believed that there was "a government cover-up of 9/11."
Jay Leno asked Bill Maher on The Tonight Show about the fact that 37%
of Americans (according to Scribbs-Howard) believe that the government
was involved in some way with the attacks (Maher was definitely not
one of them).

snip

Not surprising that you believe this crap, JW. There never seems to be
conspiracy theory that you won't buy. Surely you must have trouble
sleeping at night. Certainly you expect the guys in the black
helicopters to be after you. Or is that one conspiracy you don't buy?
FK
Freewhilin Frank
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:17 pm
Guest
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:22:41 -0500, strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:

Quote:
Freewhilin Frank wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:30:12 -0700 (PDT), knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:

From:
http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

The First Fifteen Minutes of September 11th
Former Air Traffic Controller Robin Hordon speaks out
on 9/11, NORAD and what should have happened on 9/11.

By Jeremy Baker

Within three hours of the attacks on the World Trade Center and
Pentagon, Robin Hordon knew it was an inside job. He had been an Air
Traffic Controller (ATC) for eleven years before Reagan fired him and
hundreds of his colleagues after they went on strike in the eighties.
Having handled in-flight emergencies and two actual hijackings in his
snip 9/11 loonacy

Lets see we have a fired air traffic controller, who was fired by the Reagan
Administration. That was the mid 80's and now it's 2008. Alot can change in
over 20 years. New procedures, new technology, new ways of doing things and
the cold war ended loosing up many procedures.

Nope, another loser's opinion is just like the other Trufers. Outdated,
unqualified, out of his capacity...about as much an expert as Alice in
Wonderland.


You are either paid to lie and mislead or you're deluded.

I was in SAC. I know the the safeguards and procedures that were in
place then and on 9/11. Detection and protection against unauthorized
aircraft within US borders was initiated in 1947. The cessation of the
Cold War did not change this.

What he reported is true. What happened in Air Traffic Control and NORAD
on the morning of 9/11 was unprecedented. Under ordinary circumstances
none of those planes would have been allowed into Washington DC or NYC
airspace let alone crash into buildings.

Many facts are being concealed but ATC did speak out during and after
9/11. So have the AF pilots. That's a matter of record.

A massive cover up of 9/11 continues.



There is no looney "massive cover up of 9/11 except what exists in your Alice
in Wonderland world of dope smoke and mirrors.

YOU were in SAC??? I call Bullshit.

Your screed indicates a delutional nut case who would have been weeded out by
the various screening programs and the IQ tests required to serve in the US
Airforce much less SAC.

Go away loon
Guest
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:44 pm
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:22:41 -0500, strabo <strabo@flashlight.net>
wrote:

Quote:
I was in SAC.

I'll bet you weren't. And if you were, it was so long ago that your
"knowledge" is quite outdated. SAC's fighter squadrons, meant to
accompany bombers on their mission, not intercept aircraft, were
disbanded in 1957. SAC itself was disbanded in 1992.

Quote:
I know the the safeguards and procedures that were in
place then and on 9/11.

Obviously, you don't.

Quote:
Detection and protection against unauthorized
aircraft within US borders was initiated in 1947.

And that was never the job of the Strategic Air Command. And SAC was
established in 1946.

Quote:
The cessation of the
Cold War did not change this.

Yes, it did.

Pilots, generally Air National Guard pilots, were standing by on
alert. But they are set up to take some 15 minutes to take off, not
seconds. During the height of the Cold War, pilots actually sat in
their planes with the engines spooled up waiting for the call. But it
hasn't been that way in years. And on 9/11, there were only 7 alert
sites with 14 planes on alert scattered around the perimeter of the
United States. In the Northeast Defense Sector, there were 2 planes
at Otis AFB and 2 planes at Langley. This alert status dates from the
1990's as evidenced by this GAO report:

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/GOVPUBS/gao/gao19.htm

"The continental air defense evolved during the Cold War to detect and
intercept Soviet bombers attacking North America via the North Pole.
GAO concludes that such an air defense is no longer needed and could
be disbanded at an annual savings of as much as $370 million. "

This dates from 1994. It goes on:

"The U.S. portion of that force is currently comprised of 180 Air
National Guard F-15A/B and F-16A/B aircraft located in 10 units and 14
alert sites in the United States."

"A dedicated continental air defense force is no longer needed. Since
the threat of a Soviet-style air attack against the United States has
largely disappeared, the air defense force has been focusing its
activities on air sovereignty missions."

"NORAD plans to reduce the number of alert sites in the continental
United States to 14 and provide 28 aircraft for the day-to-day
peacetime air sovereignty mission. Each alert site will have two
fighters, and their crews will be on 24-hour duty and ready to
scramble within 5 minutes. "

And by 2001:

From an article at
http://www.afa.org/magazine/Feb2002/0202norad_print.html

"Down to Seven Bases

Like every government organization, NORAD was caught off guard on
Sept. 11. The monitoring of threats went on as usual that day but
NORAD operators were looking outward from US borders, seeking incoming
danger. NORAD did not anticipate attacks in which civil airliners
would be hijacked from domestic airports and turned into weapons
against US targets.

At the time of the attacks, only seven locations-around the perimeter
of the United States-were engaged in the air defense mission. Each was
assigned a pair of Air National Guard fighter aircraft ready to
scramble if US airspace were threatened.

These alert locations had F-15 or F-16 fighters on the runways,
fueled, and ready to take off in fewer than 15 minutes.

It was, however, a greatly diminished presence, said Maj. Gen. Paul A.
Weaver Jr., now retired, who was at the time the director of the Air
National Guard. He said that, during the Cold War, the air defense
force structure was much more robust. Fighters sat fueled and ready to
take off, if directed by NORAD, at "well over 100 alert sites."

Weaver said the number of sites was reduced because it was widely
believed the threat to the United States had essentially disappeared.
Some questioned the need to maintain even the seven alert bases.
"Based upon the threat, seven sites was [considered] adequate for the
outward threat," he said. "Never did we believe the threat would come
from within."

The seven air bases with aircraft on permanent alert Sept. 11 were
arranged around the Pacific, Gulf, and Atlantic coastlines. This
perimeter arrangement was a reflection of pre-attack thinking that was
focused on external threats."

and:

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/1299/home2.htm

"The Air National Guard exclusively performs the air sovereignty
mission in the continental United States, and those units fall under
the control of the 1st Air Force based at Tyndall. The Guard maintains
seven alert sites with 14 fighters and pilots on call around the
clock. Besides Homestead, alert birds also sit armed and ready at
Tyndall; Langley AFB, Va.; Otis Air National Guard Base, Mass.;
Portland International Airport, Ore.; March ARB, Calif.; and Ellington
Field, Texas."

And the last time that the Air Force intercepted an aircraft over the
continental United States (Payne Stewart's Learjet), it took an hour
and 20 minutes to get to it.

Quote:
What he reported is true. What happened in Air Traffic Control and NORAD
on the morning of 9/11 was unprecedented. Under ordinary circumstances
none of those planes would have been allowed into Washington DC or NYC
airspace let alone crash into buildings.

You don't have a clue.

Quote:
Many facts are being concealed but ATC did speak out during and after
9/11. So have the AF pilots. That's a matter of record.

Then cite it.

Quote:
A massive cover up of 9/11 continues.

Only in your mind.
habshi
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:47 pm
Guest
The problem is that no one believed the Islamic terrorists
would be mad enough to crash into the towers. They thought they might
land the planes and take hostages , so the air force would not have
shot them down
Freewhilin Frank
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:04 pm
Guest
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:20:32 -0500, strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:

Quote:
habshi wrote:
The problem is that no one believed the Islamic terrorists
would be mad enough to crash into the towers. They thought they might
land the planes and take hostages , so the air force would not have
shot them down


I wonder if that's what they thought when Muslims, with the help of a
Muslim FBI informant, bombed the WTC in 1993.

Or the OKC bombing after which six Muslims were arrested.




You were proved a liar when you claim to have worked for SAC. Why should any

of this drivel be any different? There happened to be a little white boy who
was so proud of his accomplishment at OKC.

Fucking Loon
strabo
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:20 pm
Guest
habshi wrote:
Quote:
The problem is that no one believed the Islamic terrorists
would be mad enough to crash into the towers. They thought they might
land the planes and take hostages , so the air force would not have
shot them down


I wonder if that's what they thought when Muslims, with the help of a
Muslim FBI informant, bombed the WTC in 1993.

Or the OKC bombing after which six Muslims were arrested.




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Gunner Asch
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:29 am
Guest
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:17:53 -0700, Freewhilin Frank
<Freewheelin_Frank@freakbros.cz> wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:22:41 -0500, strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:

Freewhilin Frank wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:30:12 -0700 (PDT), knews4u2chew@yahoo.com wrote:

From:
http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

The First Fifteen Minutes of September 11th
Former Air Traffic Controller Robin Hordon speaks out
on 9/11, NORAD and what should have happened on 9/11.

By Jeremy Baker

Within three hours of the attacks on the World Trade Center and
Pentagon, Robin Hordon knew it was an inside job. He had been an Air
Traffic Controller (ATC) for eleven years before Reagan fired him and
hundreds of his colleagues after they went on strike in the eighties.
Having handled in-flight emergencies and two actual hijackings in his
snip 9/11 loonacy

Lets see we have a fired air traffic controller, who was fired by the Reagan
Administration. That was the mid 80's and now it's 2008. Alot can change in
over 20 years. New procedures, new technology, new ways of doing things and
the cold war ended loosing up many procedures.

Nope, another loser's opinion is just like the other Trufers. Outdated,
unqualified, out of his capacity...about as much an expert as Alice in
Wonderland.


You are either paid to lie and mislead or you're deluded.

I was in SAC. I know the the safeguards and procedures that were in
place then and on 9/11. Detection and protection against unauthorized
aircraft within US borders was initiated in 1947. The cessation of the
Cold War did not change this.

What he reported is true. What happened in Air Traffic Control and NORAD
on the morning of 9/11 was unprecedented. Under ordinary circumstances
none of those planes would have been allowed into Washington DC or NYC
airspace let alone crash into buildings.

Many facts are being concealed but ATC did speak out during and after
9/11. So have the AF pilots. That's a matter of record.

A massive cover up of 9/11 continues.



There is no looney "massive cover up of 9/11 except what exists in your Alice
in Wonderland world of dope smoke and mirrors.

YOU were in SAC??? I call Bullshit.

Your screed indicates a delutional nut case who would have been weeded out by
the various screening programs and the IQ tests required to serve in the US
Airforce much less SAC.

Go away loon

I wonder if anyone realizes that SAC was disbanded in 1992?

Safeguards.....most were shut down with SAC in '92
We won the Cold War..those safeguards were no longer needed.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
RM v2.0
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:39 am
Guest
Quote:

I wonder if anyone realizes that SAC was disbanded in 1992?

Safeguards.....most were shut down with SAC in '92
We won the Cold War..those safeguards were no longer needed.

Gunner


Damn it Gunny, you spoiled it!
Eric Gisin
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:53 am
Guest
"strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message news:1206987194_296@isp.n...
Quote:

You are either paid to lie and mislead or you're deluded.

I was in SAC. I know the the safeguards and procedures that were in
place then and on 9/11. Detection and protection against unauthorized
aircraft within US borders was initiated in 1947. The cessation of the
Cold War did not change this.

SAC, is that a psych hospital?


Quote:
What he reported is true. What happened in Air Traffic Control and NORAD
on the morning of 9/11 was unprecedented. Under ordinary circumstances
none of those planes would have been allowed into Washington DC or NYC
airspace let alone crash into buildings.

Pilot to ATC: Hijackers have requested we change course and fly into the WTC.

ATC to Pilot: hold on a minute ...
No, we cannot authorize that. Please continue to your destination.

Quote:
Many facts are being concealed but ATC did speak out during and after
9/11. So have the AF pilots. That's a matter of record.

A massive cover up of 9/11 continues.

A massive outbreak of schizophrenia on the net.
Gunner Asch
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:11 pm
Guest
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:33:53 -0800, "Another McCain Voting Democrat"
<McCain is the Real Man@Election 2008> wrote:

Quote:
Donchaknow Sonofabitch...?

No, Ive never met you.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
pyotr filipivich
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:41 pm
Guest
[Default] I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
Freewhilin Frank <Freewheelin_Frank@freakbros.cz> reported Elvis on
Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:17:53 -0700 in misc.survivalism :
Quote:

What he reported is true. What happened in Air Traffic Control and NORAD
on the morning of 9/11 was unprecedented. Under ordinary circumstances
none of those planes would have been allowed into Washington DC or NYC
airspace let alone crash into buildings.

Many facts are being concealed but ATC did speak out during and after
9/11. So have the AF pilots. That's a matter of record.

A massive cover up of 9/11 continues.



There is no looney "massive cover up of 9/11 except what exists in your Alice
in Wonderland world of dope smoke and mirrors.

If there is a cover up (a mighty big "if"), it is probably more
petty than anything else. A massive case of CYA - each organization
attempts to conceal their institutional inability to be omniscient,
omnipresent and omnipotent.

Otherwise, if the conspiracy was a omniscient, omnipotent and
omnipresent as claimed - the only ones who would be free to "reveal"
the conspiracy, would be those minions tasked with hiding it in plain
sight. Yes, I am saying that those who claim Sept 11th was an inside
job, are minions of Karl Rove, doing his bidding.
Quote:

YOU were in SAC??? I call Bullshit.

Your screed indicates a delutional nut case who would have been weeded out by
the various screening programs and the IQ tests required to serve in the US
Airforce much less SAC.

He could have developed the problem after separation. It is not
unheard of.
Quote:

Go away loon
--

pyotr filipivich
The two oldest cliches in the book are "The Good Old Days were
better." and "After all, these are Modern TImes."
strabo
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:17 pm
Guest
SAC@usa.com wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:22:41 -0500, strabo <strabo@flashlight.net
wrote:

I was in SAC.

I'll bet you weren't. And if you were, it was so long ago that your
"knowledge" is quite outdated. SAC's fighter squadrons, meant to
accompany bombers on their mission, not intercept aircraft, were
disbanded in 1957. SAC itself was disbanded in 1992.

I know the the safeguards and procedures that were in
place then and on 9/11.

Obviously, you don't.

Detection and protection against unauthorized
aircraft within US borders was initiated in 1947.

And that was never the job of the Strategic Air Command. And SAC was
established in 1946.


We are talking about internal air security. SAC set the standards.
NORAD received the military and civilian reports and intercepts flew
from SAC and ADC bases. When SAC was shut down the procedures remained.

You spill a lot of ink trying to distort the obvious. I wonder why.

I want you to fly a plane of any size and unannounced, into Washington
DC or NYC airspace. Let us know how it turns out.

Those controls that you will encounter were supposed to be in
place on the morning of 9/11. It's as simple as that.



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