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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » Why opposition to ANWR drilling is ridiculous!
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| bill |
 Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:11 am |
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On Mar 27, 2:01 pm, mergatroid <heav...@to.org> wrote:
Well, thing is, there's no real point in arguing with fools. Why
should he bother to try to educate you? Particularly since you've made
it fairly clear that facts are unlikely to have any impact on your
belief system. |
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| Yer Pal Al |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:33 am |
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On Mar 27, 11:11 am, bill <ford_prefec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Mar 27, 2:01 pm, mergatroid <heav...@to.org> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Yer Pal Al
Caddyshack...@gmail.com> mumbled:
On Mar 26, 10:57 pm, Dan Bloomquist <publi...@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Yer Pal Al wrote:
How many years will it take for the horse to get out of the barn?
http://lakeweb.com/money/Hirsch.pdf
I won't do your math.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
You folded up faster than Howard "I Have a Scream" Dean did in 2004.
LOL!
And he got off to sort of a promising start too..
Well, thing is, there's no real point in arguing with fools. Why
should he bother to try to educate you? Particularly since you've made
it fairly clear that facts are unlikely to have any impact on your
belief system.
This is your guys' idea of an argument:
[read my link and try to figure out what I'm talking about]
and
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
In the end the demand for more oil will sway moderate democrats and
the ANWR will be spoiled for generations and no one will notice. |
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| mergatroid |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:01 pm |
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On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Yer Pal Al
<Caddyshack.Al@gmail.com> mumbled:
LOL!
And he got off to sort of a promising start too.. |
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| mergatroid |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:16 pm |
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On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:11:40 -0700 (PDT), bill
<ford_prefect42@hotmail.com> mumbled:
Quote: On Mar 27, 2:01 pm, mergatroid <heav...@to.org> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Yer Pal Al
Caddyshack...@gmail.com> mumbled:
On Mar 26, 10:57 pm, Dan Bloomquist <publi...@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Yer Pal Al wrote:
How many years will it take for the horse to get out of the barn?
http://lakeweb.com/money/Hirsch.pdf
I won't do your math.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
You folded up faster than Howard "I Have a Scream" Dean did in 2004.
LOL!
And he got off to sort of a promising start too..
Well, thing is, there's no real point in arguing with fools.
Ok, we'll factor you out.
Quote: Why should he bother to try to educate you?
Why should he bother to deny our need to use our own resources.
Quote: Particularly since you've made
it fairly clear that facts are unlikely to have any impact on your
belief system.
Pot/kettle. |
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| bill |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:32 pm |
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Quote: What is the sustainability of
mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do we start? And I don't mean
start talking about it.
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Sasol_(SSL)
You didn't answer my question.
The coal reserves in Montana are vast, we have a long time to gobefore
it runs out: >>>>http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/08/02/...
You didn't asnwer my question.
Sure did.
What is the sustainability of mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do
we start? And I don't mean start talking about it.
Soon I hope.
"It would cost less that a $1 per gallon to make that diesel," he
said.
Gee, you would think smart money would be all over this.
Given the upfront costs and potential EIS headaches?
Rrright. So, when do we start?
Soon I hope.
That would be good. In fact, the sooner the better.
Quote: Sasol's process of making oil from coal or natural gas costs more per
barrel than traditional oil extraction technologies. It costs Sasol
$30-40 per barrel of oil, compared to costs as low as $10-$15 to
extract oil in Saudi Arabia. As a result, Sasol's method of producing
oil is profitable only when oil prices are high.
Before the last rig run in SA, they were producing for $1.50/bl. Press
releases are rarely accurate.
At sustained crude prices over $80/brl. we could economically make it
out of shale oil too.
Show me a study with a reasonable ERoEI for kerogen.
Been o Garfield or Rio Blanco Counties lately?
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.12/oilshale.html
This is not a study.
Close enough for gubmint work.
Dude, this is a publicity piece! Nothing more. It contains no
estimates of probable recovery rates, the EROEI calculations are
spotty at best, and the estimated recovery/acre is simply bogus! Do
the math, 1 million barrels per acre implies that the oil shale seam
is 250 feet thick (assuming the shale is half oil by volume and that
you can get 100% extraction). Inferring all this from 1 pilot project
that produced 1700 barrels of oil may be good fun, but it's a hike
from being an energy policy! Also, If you have a 3.5:1 eroei, that
means that you need electricity. A LOT of electricity. To the tune
of 485714285 kwh/mb oil. Or 20 1 gwe nuclear power plants for *every*
mb/d of extracted oil.
Quote: Sasol's major focus is Gas-to-Liquids (GTL), and it is currently
building major GTL facilities (Oryx in Qatar and Escravos in Nigeria)
with plans to produce 540,000 barrels a day of synthetic fuels and
chemicals by 2014.
$5 billion for .5 mb/d! What a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If they are
going to implement .5 mb/d of production in 4 years, they had better get
their butts in gear.
Yes, so?
I don't see a plan, just talk.
The meetings have been held, that you don't get access to the
negotiations is irrelevant.
RRRight...
Sorry.
So.... your contention is that all this has been worked out in a
secret meeting that only you attended... Are you napoleon Bonaparte
too?
Quote: snip more just talk
Idiot.
Ass hole.
Dickdrip.
Fuckwad.
Shithead.
Cum guzzling gutter slut.
Quote: Show me that they really have a plan to put .5 mb/d of production in
Montana by 2014.
I've shown you plenty, denial is your game - enjoy.
You have shown only talk. Talk about games.....
You are a denier, dime a dozen in this medium.
Now that is pot/kettle....
I'm not the one denying CTL.
He isn't denying CTL either, he's asking for a projection of how fast
the rampup can be done, where the coal will be sourced, who will
finance the ctl plant construction, little things like that. Given
that coal production is showing signs of peaking, it's a fair
question. |
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| Dan Bloomquist |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:57 pm |
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mergatroid drolled on:
Quote: On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:11:40 -0700 (PDT), bill
ford_prefect42@hotmail.com> mumbled:
On Mar 27, 2:01 pm, mergatroid <heav...@to.org> wrote:
And he got off to sort of a promising start too..
Well, thing is, there's no real point in arguing with fools.
Ok, we'll factor you out.
Yer Pal Al is not a sock puppet?
Quote: Why should he bother to try to educate you?
Why should he bother to deny our need to use our own resources.
I didn't. That makes you a liar.
Quote: Particularly since you've made
it fairly clear that facts are unlikely to have any impact on your
belief system.
Pot/kettle.
Hardly. There are beliefs and numbers. |
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| Dan Bloomquist |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:35 pm |
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mergatroid wrote:
Quote: On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:51:09 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
mergatroid blathered:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:10:40 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
mergatroid wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:10:20 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
What is the sustainability of
mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do we start? And I don't mean
start talking about it.
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Sasol_(SSL)
You didn't answer my question.
The coal reserves in Montana are vast, we have a long time to gobefore
it runs out:
http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/08/02/build/state/25-coal-fuel.inc
You didn't asnwer my question.
Sure did.
What is the sustainability of mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do
we start? And I don't mean start talking about it.
Quote: "It would cost less that a $1 per gallon to make that diesel," he
said.
Gee, you would think smart money would be all over this.
Given the upfront costs and potential EIS headaches?
Rrright. So, when do we start?
Quote: Sasol's process of making oil from coal or natural gas costs more per
barrel than traditional oil extraction technologies. It costs Sasol
$30-40 per barrel of oil, compared to costs as low as $10-$15 to
extract oil in Saudi Arabia. As a result, Sasol's method of producing
oil is profitable only when oil prices are high.
Before the last rig run in SA, they were producing for $1.50/bl. Press
releases are rarely accurate.
At sustained crude prices over $80/brl. we could economically make it
out of shale oil too.
Show me a study with a reasonable ERoEI for kerogen.
Been to Garfield or Rio Blanco Counties lately?
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.12/oilshale.html
This is not a study.
Quote: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/09/sasol_scouting_.html
Executives from Sasol, the South African energy company and the
world’s largest producer of synthetic fuels, are visiting Montana this
weekend as they scout for potential sites for a $5-billion
Coal-to-Liquids (CTL) plant, according to Congressman Denny Rehberg
(R-MT). Other potential locations include Wyoming, Illinois and
Alaska.
Sasol’s major focus is Gas-to-Liquids (GTL), and it is currently
building major GTL facilities (Oryx in Qatar and Escravos in Nigeria)
with plans to produce 540,000 barrels a day of synthetic fuels and
chemicals by 2014.
$5 billion for .5 mb/d! What a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If they are
going to implement .5 mb/d of production in 4 years, they had better get
their butts in gear.
Yes, so?
I don't see a plan, just talk.
The meetings have been held, that you don't get access to the
negotiations is irrelevant.
RRRight...
Quote: snip more just talk
Idiot.
Ass hole.
Dickdrip.
Fuckwad.
Quote: Show me that they really have a plan to put .5 mb/d of production in
Montana by 2014.
I've shown you plenty, denial is your game - enjoy.
You have shown only talk. Talk about games.....
You are a denier, dime a dozen in this medium.
Now that is pot/kettle.... |
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| Dan Bloomquist |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:40 pm |
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Guest
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Yer Pal Al wrote:
Quote:
[read my link and try to figure out what I'm talking about]
This one?
<http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arctic_national_wildlife_refuge/html/analysisdiscussion.html>
What is your point? |
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| philbert desanex |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:59 pm |
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On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:35:02 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
<public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
Quote: mergatroid wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:51:09 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
mergatroid blathered:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:10:40 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
mergatroid wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:10:20 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
What is the sustainability of
mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do we start? And I don't mean
start talking about it.
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Sasol_(SSL)
You didn't answer my question.
The coal reserves in Montana are vast, we have a long time to gobefore
it runs out:
http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/08/02/build/state/25-coal-fuel.inc
You didn't asnwer my question.
Sure did.
What is the sustainability of mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do
we start? And I don't mean start talking about it.
Soon I hope.
Quote: "It would cost less that a $1 per gallon to make that diesel," he
said.
Gee, you would think smart money would be all over this.
Given the upfront costs and potential EIS headaches?
Rrright. So, when do we start?
Soon I hope.
Quote: Sasol's process of making oil from coal or natural gas costs more per
barrel than traditional oil extraction technologies. It costs Sasol
$30-40 per barrel of oil, compared to costs as low as $10-$15 to
extract oil in Saudi Arabia. As a result, Sasol's method of producing
oil is profitable only when oil prices are high.
Before the last rig run in SA, they were producing for $1.50/bl. Press
releases are rarely accurate.
At sustained crude prices over $80/brl. we could economically make it
out of shale oil too.
Show me a study with a reasonable ERoEI for kerogen.
Been to Garfield or Rio Blanco Counties lately?
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.12/oilshale.html
This is not a study.
Close enough for gubmint work.
Quote: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/09/sasol_scouting_.html
Executives from Sasol, the South African energy company and the
world’s largest producer of synthetic fuels, are visiting Montana this
weekend as they scout for potential sites for a $5-billion
Coal-to-Liquids (CTL) plant, according to Congressman Denny Rehberg
(R-MT). Other potential locations include Wyoming, Illinois and
Alaska.
Sasol’s major focus is Gas-to-Liquids (GTL), and it is currently
building major GTL facilities (Oryx in Qatar and Escravos in Nigeria)
with plans to produce 540,000 barrels a day of synthetic fuels and
chemicals by 2014.
$5 billion for .5 mb/d! What a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If they are
going to implement .5 mb/d of production in 4 years, they had better get
their butts in gear.
Yes, so?
I don't see a plan, just talk.
The meetings have been held, that you don't get access to the
negotiations is irrelevant.
RRRight...
Sorry.
Quote: snip more just talk
Idiot.
Ass hole.
Dickdrip.
Fuckwad.
Shithead.
Quote: Show me that they really have a plan to put .5 mb/d of production in
Montana by 2014.
I've shown you plenty, denial is your game - enjoy.
You have shown only talk. Talk about games.....
You are a denier, dime a dozen in this medium.
Now that is pot/kettle....
I'm not the one denying CTL. |
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| Dan Bloomquist |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:15 pm |
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Guest
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philbert desanex wrote:
Quote: On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:35:02 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
public21@lakeweb.com> mumbled:
What is the sustainability of mining coal for 1, 2, 5 mb/d? And, when do
we start? And I don't mean start talking about it.
Soon I hope.
We should have started thirty years ago.
Quote: "It would cost less that a $1 per gallon to make that diesel," he
said.
Gee, you would think smart money would be all over this.
Given the upfront costs and potential EIS headaches?
Rrright. So, when do we start?
Soon I hope.
We should have started thirty years ago.
Quote: Sasol's process of making oil from coal or natural gas costs more per
barrel than traditional oil extraction technologies. It costs Sasol
$30-40 per barrel of oil, compared to costs as low as $10-$15 to
extract oil in Saudi Arabia. As a result, Sasol's method of producing
oil is profitable only when oil prices are high.
Before the last rig run in SA, they were producing for $1.50/bl. Press
releases are rarely accurate.
At sustained crude prices over $80/brl. we could economically make it
out of shale oil too.
Show me a study with a reasonable ERoEI for kerogen.
Been to Garfield or Rio Blanco Counties lately?
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.12/oilshale.html
This is not a study.
Close enough for gubmint work.
It feeds your belief system.
Quote: The meetings have been held, that you don't get access to the
negotiations is irrelevant.
RRRight...
Sorry.
snip more just talk
Idiot.
Ass hole.
Dickdrip.
Fuckwad.
Shithead.
Armpit stench.
Quote: Show me that they really have a plan to put .5 mb/d of production in
Montana by 2014.
I've shown you plenty, denial is your game - enjoy.
You have shown only talk. Talk about games.....
You are a denier, dime a dozen in this medium.
Now that is pot/kettle....
I'm not the one denying CTL.
Another lie? Where did I 'deny' it? The best way not to get caught in a
lie is to just not lie.
In fact, I've had this paper available for a couple of years on my website:
http://lakeweb.com/money/tsr010.pdf
Do notice that much of the work was done back when we should have
started fixing this.
In case you missed it:
http://lakeweb.com/money/Hirsch.pdf |
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| Dan Bloomquist |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:23 pm |
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Dan Bloomquist wrote:
Quote:
We should have started thirty years ago.
And it is not like we didn't know better.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez9TRtXu8rQ> |
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| Yer Pal Al |
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:32 am |
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On Mar 27, 3:40 pm, Dan Bloomquist <publi...@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Whatever BS link you post and say, "You do the math." With the hopes
that I'll discover something that you cannot. |
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| bill |
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:11 am |
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On Mar 28, 11:32 am, Yer Pal Al <Caddyshack...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Mar 27, 3:40 pm, Dan Bloomquist <publi...@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Yer Pal Al wrote:
[read my link and try to figure out what I'm talking about]
This one?
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/ar...
What is your point?
Whatever BS link you post and say, "You do the math." With the hopes
that I'll discover something that you cannot.
No dude, he's hoping that you'll do the math because he already has.
in most cases many times. He's hoping that you'll learn what he
already knows. |
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| Yer Pal Al |
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:21 am |
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| bill |
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:18 am |
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On Mar 28, 12:21 pm, Yer Pal Al <Caddyshack...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Mar 28, 9:11 am, bill <ford_prefec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 28, 11:32 am, Yer Pal Al <Caddyshack...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 27, 3:40 pm, Dan Bloomquist <publi...@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Yer Pal Al wrote:
[read my link and try to figure out what I'm talking about]
This one?
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/ar...
What is your point?
Whatever BS link you post and say, "You do the math." With the hopes
that I'll discover something that you cannot.
No dude, he's hoping that you'll do the math because he already has.
in most cases many times. He's hoping that you'll learn what he
already knows.
He's absolutely wrong or can't you read for yourself?:
http://www.ejge.com/2005/Ppr0503/Ppr0503.htm
"An Evaluation of the Role of Fabric on Stiffness and Shear Strength
of Bringelly Shale" why did you post this? what does this have to do
with ANYTHING?
http://www.worldoil.com/magazine/MAGAZINE_DETAIL.asp?ART_ID=1542&MONT...
This is a good piece. The only thing is, it neglects infrastructure
construction time and production *rates*. A fine example of this is
the oil shale article you posted before about the shell oil process.
How *long* does the construction of 20 gwe worth of power plants cost,
regardless of method? How long will it take to drill the required
holes for injection of the heat and the refrigeration? In short, when
can we expect to see even 1 mb/d of production?
http://pangea.stanford.edu/research/SWP/pdfs/monitoring_coal_bed_meth...
Already being used, no help there. |
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