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Author Message
calderhome@yahoo.com
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:39 am
Guest
NEWS - "Egyptian government urges end to biofuel subsidies"

"The U.S. and Europe should stop encouraging the growth of maize and
other crops for the production of biofuels, a practice that is pushing
up food prices and hitting the world's poorest people, Egyptian
Minister of Investment Mahmoud Mohieldin said Wednesday."

http://www.checkbiotech.org/green_News_Biofuels.aspx?infoId=17306

----
Parallels - Biofuels and Mao's "Great Leap Forward"

An essential economic point that political leaders and the media have
missed about the world food crisis is that rising oil prices have not
shrunk the human food supply, but biofuel production has! Higher oil
prices naturally raise the cost of everything that takes energy to
produce, but in addition to that United States and European Union
policies have actually shrunk the human food supply by artificially
mandating a shift of agricultural resources to biofuel production.
President Bush's 2007 "Energy Independence and Security Act" turns our
food into fuel, and is reminiscent of Chairman Mao Tse Tung's 1958
Five Year Plan, known as "The Great Leap Forward," in which China's
agricultural based economy was forcefully shifted to greater
industrial output.

The higher food prices of 2008 cannot easily lead to increased food
production, as would normally be the case, because of Bush's
government mandated shift of land, water, fertilizer, farm equipment,
and manpower resources to biofuel production. With biofuels out of
the equation, farmers could have easily passed higher energy costs on
to consumers without shrinking food production, and they could have
increased food output to meet the greater demands of an expanding
world population. Higher prices normally give producers a strong
incentive signal to make more of a product so they can make more
money. Now those incentive signals are confused and ineffective
because of forced government biofuel mandates. Farmers must now
produce for the automotive biofuel market as well as for the human
food market.

Chairman Mao Tse Tung banned private farms in 1958 in his shift to
communes and greater industrial output at the expense of agriculture.
This led to a 15% drop in grain production in 1959 and another 10%
reduction in 1960. Biofuel production has consumed an estimated 33%
to 38% of America's corn crop, depending of whose statistics you
believe, and has caused many farmers to grow corn to make ethanol
instead of wheat to make bread. Bush's 2007 biofuel mandates have
called for even more of our food to be turned into fuel in the name of
"energy independence," but at the tragic cost of global food supply
security. Mao's top-down meddling in agricultural production was
compounded by droughts and storms, just as Bush's top-down meddling in
agriculture has been compounded by a drought in Australia which
reduced wheat production, and a winter storm in China which caused
major crop failures. A convergence of forces turned Mao's well
meaning 1958 plan into the greatest famine in history, and resulted in
the death by starvation of tens of millions of Chinese people. Bush's
well meaning 2007 "Energy Independence and Security Act" may
eventually take even more lives worldwide.

MORE FACTS ABOUT BIOFUELS - http://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

Christopher Calder
habshi
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:48 pm
Guest
Egypt is multiplying five fold every fifty years , 25 fold
every 100, ie there will be 2 billion Egyptians this century from 70m
today.
Mother Nature cant keep up. Its time the Egyptians adopted the
one child policy but even that will double populations.
A few million Egyptians are certain to die of starvation in
the next couple of years , the world simply does not have the food
reserves to feed them.
Anthony Matonak
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:50 pm
Guest
calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
NEWS - "Egyptian government urges end to biofuel subsidies"

"The U.S. and Europe should stop encouraging the growth of maize and
other crops for the production of biofuels, a practice that is pushing
up food prices and hitting the world's poorest people, Egyptian
Minister of Investment Mahmoud Mohieldin said Wednesday."

Perhaps Egypt should grow it's own food. Then it wouldn't matter
what the U.S. and Europe do. Their own food prices would be under
their own control.

Anthony
calderhome@yahoo.com
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:01 pm
Guest
Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices. Too many wheat farmers
have switched to growing corn for ethanol. By May US wheat supplies
will be lower than any time since 1948.

Biofuels are a global disaster and need to be banned, not subsidized.

"It takes 7.7 pounds of soy oil -- or $4.34 -- to produce a gallon of
biodiesel, according to the Food and Agricultural Policy Research
Institute. Add overhead and other processing costs (about 70 cents per
gallon), federal and state taxes (54 cents), and subtract the dollar
tax credit, and a gallon of biodiesel could sell for $4.58 at the
pump. Regular diesel sold for $3.86 a gallon Wednesday in Atlanta."

So, to sell biodiesel made from American soybeans it would cost $5.58
a gallon at the pump without the $1.00 a gallon Federal tax credit.
The tax credit for ethanol is $.51 a gallon. Without subsides, there
would be no market for biofuels in the USA.

A new study says biofuels from switchgrass (cellulose) won't work
either.
http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/DBS/PDFFiles/08wp460.pdf

Biofuel facts: http://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

CC
Anthony Matonak
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:55 pm
Guest
habshi wrote:
Quote:
Egypt is multiplying five fold every fifty years , 25 fold
every 100, ie there will be 2 billion Egyptians this century from 70m
today.
Mother Nature cant keep up. Its time the Egyptians adopted the
one child policy but even that will double populations.
A few million Egyptians are certain to die of starvation in
the next couple of years , the world simply does not have the food
reserves to feed them.

An alternative to starvation and/or population control is to take
what they want from someone else. They could invade some of their
neighboring countries, for instance. It may cost a lot of lives
but then, as you say, they have some to spare.

Anthony
--
There is always more than one solution to a problem.
Bob Eld
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:28 pm
Guest
<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7661e355-b6e6-43e2-a2d2-1619f9d3ba64@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
NEWS - "Egyptian government urges end to biofuel subsidies"

"The U.S. and Europe should stop encouraging the growth of maize and
other crops for the production of biofuels, a practice that is pushing
up food prices and hitting the world's poorest people, Egyptian
Minister of Investment Mahmoud Mohieldin said Wednesday."

http://www.checkbiotech.org/green_News_Biofuels.aspx?infoId=17306

Snip...


Why should we feed the Egyptians? After all we need the grain to make
ETHANOL! Screw the Egyptians, let them make their own ethanol or eat the
damn stuff if that's what they want. Why is it our worry if they have no
desire what so ever to get their population under control. For over 5,000
years Egyptian civilization has flourished in the Nile basin and they have
prospered growing their own food and grain. Now all of a sudden they don't
like what we do with our grain. Is that a joke? Maybe they should look
inward to find ways to feed themselves. After all they are blessed with one
of the best growing regions in all of the Arab world. They need to manage
their population and match it to the available resources and quit looking to
the western world for a bail out.

The real problem is not ethanol but the value of the dollar and resulting
energy prices. Because of the cheap dollar there is a very large demand for
American grain world wide and exports are way up. There was more corn
shipped to China alone than was converted to ethanol last year. Newly rich
China pays the freight, Egypt doesn't. China is where your grain is going,
lets look to the real problems not the imagined ones.
Clave
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:08 pm
Guest
<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31d14847-68b6-42cb-89f9-aca8f3af09ca@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices.

PLONK
Americano..
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:30 am
Guest
"Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDammit@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:Je2dndVE6rrXG3nanZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@cablespeedwa.com...
Quote:
calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31d14847-68b6-42cb-89f9-aca8f3af09ca@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices.

PLONK



PLANK!
Roland Mösl
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:59 am
Guest
"habshi" <habshi@anony.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:47e43a9c.5593281@news.clara.net...
Quote:
Egypt is multiplying five fold every fifty years , 25 fold
every 100, ie there will be 2 billion Egyptians this century from 70m
today.

The usual method to decrease population growth is
a high liviing standard.

But US industry is to stupid to deliver to all the world
all the goods to reach a high liviing standard.

US has not the technology for this, because fossile technology
can not deliver a high living standard to all the world.

Only renewable energy can deliver a high living standard
to all mankind.

http://car.pege.org/2006-loremo/ford-t-21th-century.htm

But instead of developing a new Ford-T ready for the whole
world, US waste money for sensless military expenses.


--
Roland Mösl
http://car.pege.org cars and traffic
http://live.pege.org building and live
http://www.pege.org
Bob Eld
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:39 am
Guest
<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31d14847-68b6-42cb-89f9-aca8f3af09ca@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices. Too many wheat farmers
have switched to growing corn for ethanol. By May US wheat supplies
will be lower than any time since 1948.
Snip...


Wheat went up to $21 mostly because of drought in Australia plus a devalued
dollar making it much cheaper in foreign places pushing American exports. It
has since dropped to $11 dollars. Any bakery can easily afford flour at
today's prices. It's nonsense to claim bakeries are going out of business.
Of course you can find some mom and pop operation baking in their kitchen
that decided to not do it any longer. But, name ONE bakery that makes over
100 loaves per day that has gone out of business because of flour prices.

You are a one note samba singing a sad song that is mostly BULL SHIT!
Clearly you must be an Exxon shill. Why else would you make such outlandish
unsubstantiated claims?
no surrender
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:56 pm
Guest
<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7661e355-b6e6-43e2-a2d2-1619f9d3ba64@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
NEWS - "Egyptian government urges end to biofuel subsidies"

"The U.S. and Europe should stop encouraging the growth of maize and
other crops for the production of biofuels, a practice that is pushing
up food prices and hitting the world's poorest people, Egyptian
Minister of Investment Mahmoud Mohieldin said Wednesday."

http://www.checkbiotech.org/green_News_Biofuels.aspx?infoId=17306

----
Parallels - Biofuels and Mao's "Great Leap Forward"

An essential economic point that political leaders and the media have
missed about the world food crisis is that rising oil prices have not
shrunk the human food supply, but biofuel production has! Higher oil
prices naturally raise the cost of everything that takes energy to
produce, but in addition to that United States and European Union
policies have actually shrunk the human food supply by artificially
mandating a shift of agricultural resources to biofuel production.
President Bush's 2007 "Energy Independence and Security Act" turns our
food into fuel, and is reminiscent of Chairman Mao Tse Tung's 1958
Five Year Plan, known as "The Great Leap Forward," in which China's
agricultural based economy was forcefully shifted to greater
industrial output.

The higher food prices of 2008 cannot easily lead to increased food
production, as would normally be the case, because of Bush's
government mandated shift of land, water, fertilizer, farm equipment,
and manpower resources to biofuel production. With biofuels out of
the equation, farmers could have easily passed higher energy costs on
to consumers without shrinking food production, and they could have
increased food output to meet the greater demands of an expanding
world population. Higher prices normally give producers a strong
incentive signal to make more of a product so they can make more
money. Now those incentive signals are confused and ineffective
because of forced government biofuel mandates. Farmers must now
produce for the automotive biofuel market as well as for the human
food market.

Chairman Mao Tse Tung banned private farms in 1958 in his shift to
communes and greater industrial output at the expense of agriculture.
This led to a 15% drop in grain production in 1959 and another 10%
reduction in 1960. Biofuel production has consumed an estimated 33%
to 38% of America's corn crop, depending of whose statistics you
believe, and has caused many farmers to grow corn to make ethanol
instead of wheat to make bread. Bush's 2007 biofuel mandates have
called for even more of our food to be turned into fuel in the name of
"energy independence," but at the tragic cost of global food supply
security. Mao's top-down meddling in agricultural production was
compounded by droughts and storms, just as Bush's top-down meddling in
agriculture has been compounded by a drought in Australia which
reduced wheat production, and a winter storm in China which caused
major crop failures. A convergence of forces turned Mao's well
meaning 1958 plan into the greatest famine in history, and resulted in
the death by starvation of tens of millions of Chinese people. Bush's
well meaning 2007 "Energy Independence and Security Act" may
eventually take even more lives worldwide.

MORE FACTS ABOUT BIOFUELS -
http://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

Christopher Calder
*****

I disapprove of likening President Bush to Mousie Dung, but do agree using
crop grains as biofuels is unwise; there is other vegetation that may be
suitable. Beyond that, the whole rationale for biofuels is flimsy.

Dennis
>
Guest
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:12 pm
On Mar 23, 4:58�pm, Dean Hoffman <""dh0496\"@ine$br#as&ka.com"> wrote:
Quote:
calderh...@yahoo.com wrote:
Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices. �Too many wheat farmers
have switched to growing corn for ethanol. �By May US wheat supplies
will be lower than any time since 1948.

� � � Funny thing about that. �The USDA thinks wheat plantings were up
last year. �http://tinyurl.com/2aymkd
� � �A lot of wheat ground went into the Conservation Reserve Program
according to this: � �http://tinyurl.com/3aen2r
� � �One more thing to think about. �A bushel of wheat can make about 70
loaves of white bread and 95 loaves of wheat bread. � That puts the
value of the wheat in a loaf at under 30� even with wheat at $20/bushel.
Wheat is back at around $11/bushel, I think. �http://tinyurl.com/2d2k64

� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �Dean

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.pronews.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Dean Hoffman
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:58 pm
Guest
calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices. Too many wheat farmers
have switched to growing corn for ethanol. By May US wheat supplies
will be lower than any time since 1948.

Funny thing about that. The USDA thinks wheat plantings were up
last year. http://tinyurl.com/2aymkd
A lot of wheat ground went into the Conservation Reserve Program
according to this: http://tinyurl.com/3aen2r
One more thing to think about. A bushel of wheat can make about 70
loaves of white bread and 95 loaves of wheat bread. That puts the
value of the wheat in a loaf at under 30¢ even with wheat at $20/bushel.
Wheat is back at around $11/bushel, I think. http://tinyurl.com/2d2k64



Dean


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Dan Bloomquist
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:48 am
Guest
Dean Hoffman > wrote:
Quote:
calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:
Many bakeries in the USA are going out of business because they cannot
afford to buy flour at today's high prices. Too many wheat farmers
have switched to growing corn for ethanol. By May US wheat supplies
will be lower than any time since 1948.

Funny thing about that. The USDA thinks wheat plantings were up
last year. http://tinyurl.com/2aymkd
A lot of wheat ground went into the Conservation Reserve Program
according to this: http://tinyurl.com/3aen2r
One more thing to think about. A bushel of wheat can make about 70
loaves of white bread and 95 loaves of wheat bread. That puts the
value of the wheat in a loaf at under 30¢ even with wheat at $20/bushel.
Wheat is back at around $11/bushel, I think. http://tinyurl.com/2d2k64

Yes, as for wheat, there is no question that the cost of grain is
fractional in this country. How much oil goes into making and delivering
that bread would require some kind of study. But what is clear is that
the cost of food is inflating at a rate that has impact. calderhome is
clearly on an agenda rant. He is claiming a truth where it may really
lie in that there is a world of billions of people demanding other than
what they demanded a few years ago. And, that the cost of all resources
that food resources depend on are rising.

U.S. Corn, who knows without a contemporary study.

Best, Dan.\
Fran
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:03 pm
Guest
On Mar 23, 10:56 am, "no surrender" <no_surren...@never.net> wrote:

<snip>

Quote:
MORE FACTS ABOUT BIOFUELS -

http://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

Christopher Calder
*****
I disapprove of likening President Bush to Mousie Dung, but do agree using
crop grains as biofuels is unwise; there is other vegetation that may be
suitable. Beyond that, the whole rationale for biofuels is flimsy.



On the contrary, the *rationale* for biofuels is very strong -- in
that fossil fuels are by definition, finite, whereas the insolation
which is the ultimate energy source for biofuels is limited only by
how much of the Earth's surface you could use to raise them.

The environmental and operational *utility* of biofuels is another
matter entirely. To what extent does a given biofuel crop


a) pay back the non-renewable energy put into it or displace non-
renewable energy?
b) effect other undesirable environmental consequences?
c) impose a greater cost burden on the beneficiaries of the fuel it
replaces?


Some biofuel strategies could meet these tests well. Others would
not.


Fran
 
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