Barack Obama's recent statements concerning the direction of the civil
space program in his potential administration is the cause of
confusion at best, of very grave concern at worse. Since the
conventional wisdom has made Senator Obama the probable Democratic
nominee for President in 2008, an examination of his proposed space
policy is in order.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/665447/barack_obama_continue...

Barack Obama's recent statements concerning the direction of the civil
space program in his potential administration is the cause of
confusion at best, of very grave concern at worse. Since the
conventional wisdom has made Senator Obama the probable Democratic
nominee for President in 2008, an examination of his proposed space
policy is in order.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/665447/barack_obama_continues_to_disdain_space.html

Back in an earlier thread on this subject, I've noted, as another
reply here already does, that his policy is not as bad as others which
could be proposed. There does not seem to be any broad support for
sending astronauts even to the Moon, never mind Mars, unfortunately.

What can you expect, really? Many liberals took one look at G. W.
Bush's space initiative, and ran off screaming...

Aieee! Aieee! Shrub-Ziggurat! The White Elephant that squandered a
thousand billions!

Back in an earlier thread on this subject, I've noted, as another
reply here already does, that his policy is not as bad as others which
could be proposed. There does not seem to be any broad support for
sending astronauts even to the Moon, never mind Mars, unfortunately.

What can you expect, really? Many liberals took one look at G. W.
Bush's space initiative, and ran off screaming...

Aieee! Aieee! Shrub-Ziggurat! The White Elephant that squandered a
thousand billions!

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification. Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton. Yes, I know, it was discussed before,
and SEI had problems. But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed
it. So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented? No.
Because it was killed/put out of its mysery/whatever by those who came
AFTER him. If SEI had continued to this day, as Shuttle and Station
have, and still produced nothing, that would be a different story.
BUT IT WAS CANCELLED BY GEORGE SR'S SUCCESSOR. So OF COURSE it
produced nothing! You might as well gripe about the poor science
returns from the Apollo 20 Moon landing. (Yes, I know, 17 was the
last one; that's the point!)

WRT VSE, we have to look at not what Bush is doing but what potential
successors would do. It looks as if Both Clinton and Obama would
build the Orion Ares 1 stack. I just read in Aviation Week that a
DEMOCRATIC Congressman(?) from Tennessee thinks going back to the Moon
makes more sense that a straight shot to Mars. And in October,
AVIATION WEEK reported there is international interest in lunar
exploration.

So, will Bush Jr.'s successors keep VSE, kill it, or keep the building
blocks? Hard to say, although the last option seems more likely. But
Blaming/crediting Bush for what is sucessors do or don't do is neither
accurate nor fair.

Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification.  Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

 Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.  

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.

So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented?  No.

Because it was killed/put out of its mysery/whatever by those who came
AFTER him.  

If SEI had continued to this day, as Shuttle and Station
have, and still produced nothing, that would be a different story.
BUT IT WAS CANCELLED BY GEORGE SR'S SUCCESSOR.  So OF COURSE it
produced nothing!  You might as well gripe about the poor science
returns from the Apollo 20 Moon landing.  (Yes, I know, 17 was the
last one; that's the point!)

WRT VSE, we have to look at not what Bush is doing but what potential
successors would do.  It looks as if Both Clinton and Obama would
build the Orion Ares 1 stack.  I just read in Aviation Week that a
DEMOCRATIC Congressman(?) from Tennessee thinks going back to the Moon
makes more sense that a straight shot to Mars.  And in October,
AVIATION WEEK reported there is international interest in lunar
exploration.  

So, will Bush Jr.'s successors keep VSE, kill it, or keep the building
blocks?  Hard to say, although the last option seems more likely.  But
Blaming/crediting Bush for what is sucessors do or don't do is neither
accurate nor fair.

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko <pne.cho...@comcast.net> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Mar 30, 12:37 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification.  Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

Read this and decide if Clinton was right or wrong.http://history.nasa.gov/seisummary.htm

 Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.  

So Clinton put it out of its misery?

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.

Hold it! Congress was controlled by Republicans in 1996!

Who said otherwise?

Reread the
link above. You don't recall "Contract on, err with America"? Newt,
Dick Armey, the Clinton lynch-mob of Hyde, Burton and others? All
elected or became committee heads after the 1994 election.

So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented?  No.

Based upon your faulty premise of a Democratic congress in 1996?

No one said anything about a Democratic congress in 1996, you moron.
SEI died long before that.

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:23:37 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko <pne.cho...@comcast.net> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


On Apr 2, 2:08 pm, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko <pne.cho...@comcast.net> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Mar 30, 12:37 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification.  Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

Read this and decide if Clinton was right or wrong.http://history.nasa..gov/seisummary.htm

 Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.  

So Clinton put it out of its misery?

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.

Hold it! Congress was controlled by Republicans in 1996!

Who said otherwise?

Michael Gallagher the original poster. Se said that at the time (1996)
that Clinton killed SEI congress was controlled by the Democrats. See
above.

Michael Gallagher was not the original poster.  Mark Whittington was.
Neither of them mentioned the year 1996.

Reread the
link above. You don't recall "Contract on, err with America"? Newt,
Dick Armey, the Clinton lynch-mob of Hyde, Burton and others? All
elected or became committee heads after the 1994 election.

So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented?  No.

Based upon your faulty premise of a Democratic congress in 1996?

No one said anything about a Democratic congress in 1996, you moron.
SEI died long before that.

No it didn't! You need to read the link before posting.

There is no link that can support the notion that anyone claimed that
SEI died in 1996, or that the Congress was Democrat in 1996.

You do know how to read, right Rand?

Yes.  It's a shame that you can't.

s.s.h snipped out of courtesy

On Apr 2, 2:08 pm, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote:

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko <pne.cho...@comcast.net> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Mar 30, 12:37 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification. Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

Read this and decide if Clinton was right or wrong.http://history.nasa.gov/seisummary.htm

Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.

So Clinton put it out of its misery?

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.

Hold it! Congress was controlled by Republicans in 1996!

Who said otherwise?

Michael Gallagher the original poster. Se said that at the time (1996)
that Clinton killed SEI congress was controlled by the Democrats. See
above.

Reread the
link above. You don't recall "Contract on, err with America"? Newt,
Dick Armey, the Clinton lynch-mob of Hyde, Burton and others? All
elected or became committee heads after the 1994 election.

So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented? No.

Based upon your faulty premise of a Democratic congress in 1996?

No one said anything about a Democratic congress in 1996, you moron.
SEI died long before that.

No it didn't! You need to read the link before posting.

You do know how to read, right Rand? I ask because based upon results
there is no proof that you read, therefore proof that you know how to
read.

Perhaps you're like the teacher who could not read:
http://www.10news.com/news/15274005/detail.html

It would explain a lot. No offense to your reader, it is just that
they aren't telling you everything and leaving you with less to work
with. But given your intellect I suppose that is best.

On Mar 30, 12:37 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification.  Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

Read this and decide if Clinton was right or wrong. http://history.nasa.gov/seisummary.htm

 Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.  

So Clinton put it out of its misery?

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.

Hold it! Congress was controlled by Republicans in 1996!

Reread the
link above. You don't recall "Contract on, err with America"? Newt,
Dick Armey, the Clinton lynch-mob of Hyde, Burton and others? All
elected or became committee heads after the 1994 election.

So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented?  No.

Based upon your faulty premise of a Democratic congress in 1996?

On Apr 2, 2:08 pm, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko <pne.cho...@comcast.net> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Mar 30, 12:37 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification.  Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

Read this and decide if Clinton was right or wrong.http://history.nasa.gov/seisummary.htm

 Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.  

So Clinton put it out of its misery?

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.

Hold it! Congress was controlled by Republicans in 1996!

Who said otherwise?

Michael Gallagher the original poster. Se said that at the time (1996)
that Clinton killed SEI congress was controlled by the Democrats. See
above.

Reread the
link above. You don't recall "Contract on, err with America"? Newt,
Dick Armey, the Clinton lynch-mob of Hyde, Burton and others? All
elected or became committee heads after the 1994 election.

So, was it BUSH SR.'s fault that SEI wasn't implemented?  No.

Based upon your faulty premise of a Democratic congress in 1996?

No one said anything about a Democratic congress in 1996, you moron.
SEI died long before that.

No it didn't! You need to read the link before posting.

You do know how to read, right Rand?

On Mar 30, 12:37 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

I think that is an oversimplification.  Bush Sr.'s SEI was cancelled
by his successor, Bill Clinton.

Read this and decide if Clinton was right or wrong. http://history.nasa.gov/seisummary.htm

 Yes, I know, it was discussed before, and SEI had problems.  

So Clinton put it out of its misery?

But it ran afoul of a Democrat-controlled
Congress that couldn't get past the sticker shock, and Clinton killed it.