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Timberwoof
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:19 pm
Guest
In article
<3fa1c846-051d-47f9-9c03-a2347258489b@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
rAgAv <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote:

Quote:
According to a documentary that I watched, when earth was still in its
molten state, the heavy iron present in the spinning planet moved into
the center because of its heaviness and all the lighter substances
moved to the crust thus giving rise to the spinning iron core of the
earth. This spinning iron core gives rise to the magnetosphere.

So, just because Mars was a little bit smaller and was farther from
the sun, it cooled away faster thus leaving the process of formation
of the core at an immature status?

hmm...does Mars even have Iron in its composition? Anyway, where did
the iron in Earth come from?

Nucleosynthesis in the cores of stars, then in supernovas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis

You should go pick up a copy of Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" and read it cover
to cover. There's a lot of basic knowledge you need to catch up on. :-)

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.
Timberwoof
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:20 pm
Guest
In article <13u3j28gmb6hcfc@corp.supernews.com>,
Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:

Quote:
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in
news:timberwoof.spam-30CDC8.09083319032008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net:

Not likely. The impactor, and thus its dense iron core, had a velocity
that took it away from the Earth again (albeit probably in lots of
little pieces).

Huh? That's news to me. All the simulations I've seen show the
impactor remains recolliding with the earth after about half
and orbit. The impact reduced the impactors momentum below
escape velocity of the barycenter. This 2nd impact further
melted the earth and impactor thus allowing the two cores to
merge and other materials to stratify.

It appears I misremembered. Sad

But in regards to a different discussion, that's certainly not an
inelastic collision or orbital interaction!

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.
don findlay
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:28 am
Guest
Darwin123 wrote:

Quote:
It would be so nice if scientific documentaries included
references to scientific papers, even if most of the audience don't
care. I am sure that few of the audience care about the actors,
writers and directors. Yet we have credits.

Surely you don't think the credits are for the benefit of the viewer,
do you?
don findlay
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:37 am
Guest
Timberwoof wrote:

Quote:

hmm...does Mars even have Iron in its composition? Anyway, where did
the iron in Earth come from?

Handy lumps. Ask brad
http://tinyurl.com/yv3tb4
Landy
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:41 am
Guest
"Darwin123" <drosen0000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:80ad8967-1a7b-4675-ab78-12c5765422f5@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
On Mar 19, 4:22 pm, "Landy" <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message

news:timberwoof.spam-30CDC8.09083319032008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...



In article <gfWdnSyiUOCYYn3anZ2dnUVZ_u6rn...@comcast.com>,
John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
Why would that event suddenly leave the iron core in the
Earth and not leave one in the moon?

Because it had greater momentum and was less likely to vapourise.
cheers
Bill

The sentence doesn't quite make sense. Do you mean momentum in the
center of mass coordinate system of the two bodies?

Think about density


Quote:
Furthermore, why
would greater momentum make it less likely to vaporize?

Nothing to do with the momentum - just the boiling point.

Quote:
I saw a special describing the results of the simulation but
they didn't try to explain the results in simpler terms.
My first guess was that the two bodies merged for a short time
into one giant liquid body, and partially equilibrated. Then, there
would be forces that resembled buoyancy. Basically, the iron sunk to
the bottom of the merged body.
Wait, this doesn't work (?). The system would be far too
turbulent. The Froude number would be too big to allow stratification.

Simulations have shown otherwise.
Florian
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:34 am
Guest
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

Quote:
In article
1ie2edr.1gqxazt1xwbh7eN%auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net>,
auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net (Florian) wrote:

SBC Yahoo <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote:

It had volcanic activity up to 100 million years ago. It has none, now,
today, this minute, and is therefore presumed deceased.

Do you seriously consider that the activity is now dead forever? That
would be ludicrous.

Why? Where would the energy come from to heat things up again?

Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of the
major volcanic events:

<http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg>

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.
Quote:

(Of course, the final answer will come when we have enough seismometers
on Mars to measure its interior. Until then, it's informed hypothesis.)

Indeed.


--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
Darwin123
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:08 pm
Guest
On Mar 20, 9:28 am, don findlay <d...@tower.net.au> wrote:
Quote:
Darwin123 wrote:
It would be so nice if scientific documentaries included
references to scientific papers, even if most of the audience don't
care. I am sure that few of the audience care about the actors,
writers and directors. Yet we have credits.

Surely you don't think the credits are for the benefit of the viewer,
do you?

No, they are for the cast. Actors get additional exposure so
people know their names. Furthermore, it provides a chain of reference
on their resumes. A future employer, looking at their resume, can look
at their work and get additional verification on their participation
in the product. The same applies for directors, writers, special
effects people, etc.
Citing the scientific article would benefit the scientist that
wrote them. It is the nonscientist who is going to hire them, after
all.
I don't see any published code of ethics that forbids publicity
once the peer review has gone through. One of the bad things about
popularized science on TV is that there is no way a better informed
viewer can look at the details.
I would love to know the assumptions that went into that
simulation. I don't know what I am discussing unless there is some
exposition on the physics involved. The result of a computer
simulation is merely a cartoon without the physical and mathematical
assumptions that went into the simulation. Without physics, historical
conjecture is stupid. Especially in natural history.
George
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:59 pm
Guest
"Florian" <auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net> wrote in message
news:1ie3mfd.f2388b1dq2hs6N%auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net...
Quote:
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

In article
1ie2edr.1gqxazt1xwbh7eN%auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net>,
auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net (Florian) wrote:

SBC Yahoo <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote:

It had volcanic activity up to 100 million years ago. It has none,
now,
today, this minute, and is therefore presumed deceased.

Do you seriously consider that the activity is now dead forever? That
would be ludicrous.

Why? Where would the energy come from to heat things up again?

Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of the
major volcanic events:

http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.

Umm, increased? Only if you read the graph upside down. According to the
graph, between 3.7-4.2 bya there were some 3,500 volcanic episodes. Between
4.2-1.0 bya there were some 1,500 volcanic episodes. Around 500 mya there
were about 400-800 volcanic episodes. About 300 mya there were about 200
volcanic episodes. About 100 mya there were about 100 episodes. I don't
know of any that have definitely been identified as being current. By any
measure, activity has significantly DECREASED, not increased. At this
point, the issue of energy (as in "Where would the energy come from to heat
things up again?") becomes a critical one.

George
Florian
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:35 pm
Guest
George <George@george.net> wrote:

Quote:
Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of the
major volcanic events:

http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.

Umm, increased? Only if you read the graph upside down. According to the
graph, between 3.7-4.2 bya there were some 3,500 volcanic episodes.

<eyes rolling>

George, confused as usual. Guess what? impact craters are NOT volcanic
episodes...

--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
Florian
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:58 pm
Guest
Paul <Paul@comcat.net> wrote:

Quote:
Florian wrote:
George <George@george.net> wrote:

Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of the
major volcanic events:

http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.
Umm, increased? Only if you read the graph upside down. According to the
graph, between 3.7-4.2 bya there were some 3,500 volcanic episodes.

eyes rolling

George, confused as usual. Guess what? impact craters are NOT volcanic
episodes...

I read it the same as George.
According to the legend, the little volcano pics with numbers represent
"Major Episodes of Volcanic Activity."


LOL, the numbers represent the age of each Episode. Next time, read the
full paper which was cited a few articles above ;-)

<http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMCPLM5NDF_index_0.html>



--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
Paul
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:53 pm
Guest
Florian wrote:
Quote:
George <George@george.net> wrote:

Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of the
major volcanic events:

http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.
Umm, increased? Only if you read the graph upside down. According to the
graph, between 3.7-4.2 bya there were some 3,500 volcanic episodes.

eyes rolling

George, confused as usual. Guess what? impact craters are NOT volcanic
episodes...

I read it the same as George.

According to the legend, the little volcano pics with numbers represent
"Major Episodes of Volcanic Activity."
The curved line represents impact craters.
Paul
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:41 pm
Guest
Florian wrote:
Quote:
Paul <Paul@comcat.net> wrote:

Florian wrote:
George <George@george.net> wrote:

Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of the
major volcanic events:

http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.
Umm, increased? Only if you read the graph upside down. According to the
graph, between 3.7-4.2 bya there were some 3,500 volcanic episodes.
eyes rolling

George, confused as usual. Guess what? impact craters are NOT volcanic
episodes...

I read it the same as George.
According to the legend, the little volcano pics with numbers represent
"Major Episodes of Volcanic Activity."


LOL, the numbers represent the age of each Episode. Next time, read the
full paper which was cited a few articles above ;-)

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMCPLM5NDF_index_0.html

You are right. Wow! That should have been obvious to me.
Definite brain glitch.
George
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:07 pm
Guest
"Paul" <Paul@comcat.net> wrote in message
news:-KqdnRjmQ7SeaH_anZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@comcast.com...
Quote:
Florian wrote:
Paul <Paul@comcat.net> wrote:

Florian wrote:
George <George@george.net> wrote:

Leave the energy question on the side, and look at the chronology of
the
major volcanic events:

http://www.esa.int/images/ChronologyModel_v02_H.jpg

It looks like the frequency of major events has increased. That is at
odd with the statement that the activity on Mars is gone forever.
Umm, increased? Only if you read the graph upside down. According to
the
graph, between 3.7-4.2 bya there were some 3,500 volcanic episodes.
eyes rolling

George, confused as usual. Guess what? impact craters are NOT volcanic
episodes...

I read it the same as George.
According to the legend, the little volcano pics with numbers represent
"Major Episodes of Volcanic Activity."


LOL, the numbers represent the age of each Episode. Next time, read the
full paper which was cited a few articles above ;-)

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMCPLM5NDF_index_0.html

You are right. Wow! That should have been obvious to me.
Definite brain glitch.

Yeah, I made the same mistake. For future reference, Florian. It would help
if you posted a link to the entire article so we can know the context of the
graphs you are referrring to. But you are right in the sense that the graph
doesn't show a decrease in volcanic activity. But it doesn't show an
increase either. It only shows that the volcanic activity has been widely
distributed and sporatic in time as indicated by continued loss of craters
due to lava flows. The article makes the point that all the internal heat
within Mars may not have yet dissipated, but it doesn't say that it is
currently active. Only suggests that there could be further activity on the
planet. I think it is possible that some very minor activity could occur in
the furture. But there certainly is no evidence that large scale vulcanism
has occurred in recent times. It certainly appears to make the case that
although Mars may still be tectonically active, it is subtle, probably order
of magnitude less active than Earth, which would indicate that Mars interior
certainly isn't the dynamo that Earth's interior is.

Geore
Stuart
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:36 am
Guest
On Mar 19, 12:43 am, "Landy" <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
Quote:
"Skywise" <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message

news:13u10vvtoo55d71@corp.supernews.com...

rAgAv <ragav.pa...@googlemail.com> wrote in news:1ffef2dc-a033-410e-96f4-
4f0136740...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

Hello,

According to my current knowledge, the earth's magnetic field formed
due to the molten iron core that is spinning to create a magnetic
field. This magnetic field is also what is protecting us from harmful
bursts (solar plasma?) from the sun.

I don't understand one thing - why doesn't Mars have one?

Mars is cold. Being smaller, it cooled quicker. It's liquid
core froze eons ago thus shutting down its dynamo.

But then why does Venus not have one? Being roughly the same size as Earth
and all................
cheers
Bill

Now that is a very good question.

It could be that Venusian core is not convecting
vigorously enough.
Stuart
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:38 am
Guest
On Mar 19, 2:54 am, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
Quote:
Landy wrote:
But then why does Venus not have one? Being roughly the same size as Earth
and all................

Perhaps the impact that created the Moon added the iron core
of the impactor to Earth's core, causing it to be over an
sized core (relative to Mars and Venus, and especially to
the Moon, which has little), and also reheated the whole
interior, causing it to still be warmer, today, than it
otherwise would have been.

The Moment of Inertia of the Earth and Venus are very similar, Venus's
inertia coefficient a bit larger, but this is to be expected as it is
a bit smaller
and there is less overall self-compression.

So I don't think the Earth has a much bigger, if at all, core than
Venus,.

Stuart
 
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