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| W. Watson |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:34 pm |
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Guest
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I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The math
is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this apply to?
What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method based on
sampling theorem.
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)
Web Page: <speckledwithStars.net> |
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| Marc Reinig |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:40 pm |
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Guest
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Near field optics are not bound by the 'Classical Limit'. Look up 'surface
plasmon' and Surface Enhanced Raman Spectroscopy or Surface Enhanced Raman
Scattering, often abbreviated SERS.
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:P2gBj.16610$Ch6.11288@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
Quote: I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The
math is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this
apply to? What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method
based on sampling theorem.
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)
Web Page: <speckledwithStars.net |
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| Salmon Egg |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:21 pm |
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Guest
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In article <P2gBj.16610$Ch6.11288@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>,
"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote:
Quote: I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The math
is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this apply to?
What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method based on
sampling theorem.
When it comes to questions of this nature, I often refer to electrical
analogies. Thin of an optical system as an information extraction
system. The amount of information that can be extracted, depends upon
the snr, signal-to-noise-ratio. Thus, by using slopes on point spread
functions, angles much smaller than the Rayleigh resolution limit can be
measured if the snr is high enough. It jus requires more sophisticated
signal processing.
Often, by changing something between measurements extra information can
be extracted. There is an exchange of time for resolution or spatial
bandwidth. The superheterodyne principle allows higher (resolution)
frequency signals to be detected with a receiver that does not have the
basic capability to work at that frequency. In optics, information is
carried in channels of limited spatial bandwidth. By the appropriate use
of gratings, the equivalent of optical local oscillator, successive
measurements in time can end up giving you the effect of a large
aperture. No physical law on the limitation of information transfer
through a channel is violagted
Bill |
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| Charles Manoras |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:44 pm |
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Guest
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"Salmon Egg" <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> wrote
Quote:
"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote:
I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and
noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The
math
is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this apply
to?
What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method based on
sampling theorem.
When it comes to questions of this nature, I often refer to electrical
analogies. Thin of an optical system as an information extraction
system. The amount of information that can be extracted, depends upon
the snr, signal-to-noise-ratio. Thus, by using slopes on point spread
functions, angles much smaller than the Rayleigh resolution limit can be
measured if the snr is high enough. It jus requires more sophisticated
signal processing.
Often, by changing something between measurements extra information can
be extracted. There is an exchange of time for resolution or spatial
bandwidth. The superheterodyne principle allows higher (resolution)
frequency signals to be detected with a receiver that does not have the
basic capability to work at that frequency. In optics, information is
carried in channels of limited spatial bandwidth. By the appropriate use
of gratings, the equivalent of optical local oscillator, successive
measurements in time can end up giving you the effect of a large
aperture. No physical law on the limitation of information transfer
through a channel is violated.
Indeed however the above applies to the one-dimensional case.
Optics is at least 2D. :-)
One would have to work at a lot of intermediate azimuths, reconstitute
the images from a lot of "scans" etc.
There was a flurry of papers in the sixties and seventies about "classical"
(i.e. as above) super resolution by such luminaries as Adolf Lohmann,
John Armitage and a few others (I quote from memory and I refer you
to the JOSA of those days).
All these papers were strong on theory but came quite short on practice.
I read them with great enthusiasm and anticipation, only to come to the
conclusion that the proposed schemes were 1D, entailed coherent laser
illumination (over a wide field) and would not be applicable to conventional
(i.e. far field) microscopy, big disappointment.
I doubt that things have changed much but would love to be proved
wrong or misinformed.
The only glimmer of hope (nice cliche) I can see is our vastly and ever
more increasing image processing power.
In the meantime laser scanning microscopy has brought great improvements
to the field but the observed apparent increase in resolution is mostly due
its inherent elimination of stray light which is the bane of high NA
microscope
objectives (and not to any super rez trick). |
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| Salmon Egg |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:20 pm |
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Guest
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In article <heCdnUScA-7ab0janZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Charles Manoras" <inconnu@cette.adresse> wrote:
Quote: Indeed however the above applies to the one-dimensional case.
Optics is at least 2D. :-)
One would have to work at a lot of intermediate azimuths, reconstitute
the images from a lot of "scans" etc.
<much snipped>
I do not deny that life would be simpler with large apertures. But that
is not a fundamental limit. Scanning, such as with a Nipkow disk enabled
a single detector to convert a two dimensional image into one waveform.
Spinning reticle systems are still used with single detectors do derive
guidance information for optical missile seekers. There is plenty of
room for innovation.
One recent report of the discovery of extra solar planets did not
require optics capable of resolving planets optically.
Bill |
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| Marc Reinig |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:17 pm |
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Guest
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Scanning Near-Field Optical Microscopes use near field optics to image
features < wave length of the illuminating light.
SERS uses near field effects to identify the presence of single molecules of
a substance
Some optical tweezers use near field effects to grab and move individual
cells and smaller particles.
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
"Charles Manoras" <inconnu@cette.adresse> wrote in message
news:heCdnUScA-7ab0janZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d@comcast.com...
Quote:
"Salmon Egg" <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> wrote
"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote:
I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and
noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The
math
is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this apply
to?
What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method based on
sampling theorem.
When it comes to questions of this nature, I often refer to electrical
analogies. Thin of an optical system as an information extraction
system. The amount of information that can be extracted, depends upon
the snr, signal-to-noise-ratio. Thus, by using slopes on point spread
functions, angles much smaller than the Rayleigh resolution limit can be
measured if the snr is high enough. It jus requires more sophisticated
signal processing.
Often, by changing something between measurements extra information can
be extracted. There is an exchange of time for resolution or spatial
bandwidth. The superheterodyne principle allows higher (resolution)
frequency signals to be detected with a receiver that does not have the
basic capability to work at that frequency. In optics, information is
carried in channels of limited spatial bandwidth. By the appropriate use
of gratings, the equivalent of optical local oscillator, successive
measurements in time can end up giving you the effect of a large
aperture. No physical law on the limitation of information transfer
through a channel is violated.
Indeed however the above applies to the one-dimensional case.
Optics is at least 2D. :-)
One would have to work at a lot of intermediate azimuths, reconstitute
the images from a lot of "scans" etc.
There was a flurry of papers in the sixties and seventies about
"classical"
(i.e. as above) super resolution by such luminaries as Adolf Lohmann,
John Armitage and a few others (I quote from memory and I refer you
to the JOSA of those days).
All these papers were strong on theory but came quite short on practice.
I read them with great enthusiasm and anticipation, only to come to the
conclusion that the proposed schemes were 1D, entailed coherent laser
illumination (over a wide field) and would not be applicable to
conventional
(i.e. far field) microscopy, big disappointment.
I doubt that things have changed much but would love to be proved
wrong or misinformed.
The only glimmer of hope (nice cliche) I can see is our vastly and ever
more increasing image processing power.
In the meantime laser scanning microscopy has brought great improvements
to the field but the observed apparent increase in resolution is mostly
due
its inherent elimination of stray light which is the bane of high NA
microscope
objectives (and not to any super rez trick).
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| W. Watson |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:38 pm |
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Guest
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It seems then that there really is no practical applications yet for this
idea, particularly not astronomy or even biology (microscopes). By near
field, it is basically meant optics used close to the object of interest?
Charles Manoras wrote:
Quote: "Salmon Egg" <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> wrote
"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote:
I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and
noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The
math
is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this apply
to?
What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method based on
sampling theorem.
When it comes to questions of this nature, I often refer to electrical
analogies. Thin of an optical system as an information extraction
system. The amount of information that can be extracted, depends upon
the snr, signal-to-noise-ratio. Thus, by using slopes on point spread
functions, angles much smaller than the Rayleigh resolution limit can be
measured if the snr is high enough. It jus requires more sophisticated
signal processing.
Often, by changing something between measurements extra information can
be extracted. There is an exchange of time for resolution or spatial
bandwidth. The superheterodyne principle allows higher (resolution)
frequency signals to be detected with a receiver that does not have the
basic capability to work at that frequency. In optics, information is
carried in channels of limited spatial bandwidth. By the appropriate use
of gratings, the equivalent of optical local oscillator, successive
measurements in time can end up giving you the effect of a large
aperture. No physical law on the limitation of information transfer
through a channel is violated.
Indeed however the above applies to the one-dimensional case.
Optics is at least 2D. :-)
One would have to work at a lot of intermediate azimuths, reconstitute
the images from a lot of "scans" etc.
There was a flurry of papers in the sixties and seventies about "classical"
(i.e. as above) super resolution by such luminaries as Adolf Lohmann,
John Armitage and a few others (I quote from memory and I refer you
to the JOSA of those days).
All these papers were strong on theory but came quite short on practice.
I read them with great enthusiasm and anticipation, only to come to the
conclusion that the proposed schemes were 1D, entailed coherent laser
illumination (over a wide field) and would not be applicable to conventional
(i.e. far field) microscopy, big disappointment.
I doubt that things have changed much but would love to be proved
wrong or misinformed.
The only glimmer of hope (nice cliche) I can see is our vastly and ever
more increasing image processing power.
In the meantime laser scanning microscopy has brought great improvements
to the field but the observed apparent increase in resolution is mostly due
its inherent elimination of stray light which is the bane of high NA
microscope
objectives (and not to any super rez trick).
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)
Web Page: <speckledwithStars.net> |
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| Back to top |
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| W. Watson |
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:42 pm |
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Guest
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Ah, I missed this when I just responded a few posts above yours. I guess I
was close on the use seems to be on objects quite small and are in the realm
of microscopes. Nay, to astronomy.
Marc Reinig wrote:
Quote: Scanning Near-Field Optical Microscopes use near field optics to image
features < wave length of the illuminating light.
SERS uses near field effects to identify the presence of single molecules of
a substance
Some optical tweezers use near field effects to grab and move individual
cells and smaller particles.
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
"Charles Manoras" <inconnu@cette.adresse> wrote in message
news:heCdnUScA-7ab0janZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Salmon Egg" <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> wrote
"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote:
I'm browsing through Goodman's Introduction to Fourier Optics, and
noticed
the topic in the Subject above in sections 6.6, p160f, 2nd edition. The
math
is a bit above my current experience, but what devices does this apply
to?
What are the applications? A subtopic is extrapolation method based on
sampling theorem.
When it comes to questions of this nature, I often refer to electrical
analogies. Thin of an optical system as an information extraction
system. The amount of information that can be extracted, depends upon
the snr, signal-to-noise-ratio. Thus, by using slopes on point spread
functions, angles much smaller than the Rayleigh resolution limit can be
measured if the snr is high enough. It jus requires more sophisticated
signal processing.
Often, by changing something between measurements extra information can
be extracted. There is an exchange of time for resolution or spatial
bandwidth. The superheterodyne principle allows higher (resolution)
frequency signals to be detected with a receiver that does not have the
basic capability to work at that frequency. In optics, information is
carried in channels of limited spatial bandwidth. By the appropriate use
of gratings, the equivalent of optical local oscillator, successive
measurements in time can end up giving you the effect of a large
aperture. No physical law on the limitation of information transfer
through a channel is violated.
Indeed however the above applies to the one-dimensional case.
Optics is at least 2D. :-)
One would have to work at a lot of intermediate azimuths, reconstitute
the images from a lot of "scans" etc.
There was a flurry of papers in the sixties and seventies about
"classical"
(i.e. as above) super resolution by such luminaries as Adolf Lohmann,
John Armitage and a few others (I quote from memory and I refer you
to the JOSA of those days).
All these papers were strong on theory but came quite short on practice.
I read them with great enthusiasm and anticipation, only to come to the
conclusion that the proposed schemes were 1D, entailed coherent laser
illumination (over a wide field) and would not be applicable to
conventional
(i.e. far field) microscopy, big disappointment.
I doubt that things have changed much but would love to be proved
wrong or misinformed.
The only glimmer of hope (nice cliche) I can see is our vastly and ever
more increasing image processing power.
In the meantime laser scanning microscopy has brought great improvements
to the field but the observed apparent increase in resolution is mostly
due
its inherent elimination of stray light which is the bane of high NA
microscope
objectives (and not to any super rez trick).
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)
Web Page: <speckledwithStars.net> |
|
|
| Back to top |
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| Marc Reinig |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:08 am |
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Guest
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"W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:A1oBj.15662$Ej5.2728@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Quote: It seems then that there really is no practical applications yet for this
idea, particularly not astronomy or even biology (microscopes).
Biology yes, astronomy no ;=)
Quote: By near field, it is basically meant optics used close to the object of
interest?
Sort of. It means you need to interact with the near field effects near the
object (hence the term near field). Their intensity decreases exponentially
with distance. However, the optics observing the result of the interaction
can be far away (relatively), since the interaction results in radiating
fields: light as we generally perceive it. Near field interactions must be
within ~wavelength distance (typically much less).
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics |
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| Helpful person |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:04 am |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 678
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There is a configuration that does not limit resolution by the optical
aperture (diffraction). In materials with negative refractive index
(the rays are refracted to the "other" side of the surface normal) it
can be shown that there is no limit to the resolution.
Although such materials do not exist in nature they have been
constructed using repetitive layers of LC (inductance, capacitance)
micro circuits. These have been built and demonstrated using visible
light. |
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| Helpful person |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:38 am |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 678
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On Mar 11, 9:39 am, "Charles Manoras" <inco...@cette.adresse> wrote:
Quote: "Helpful person" <rrl...@yahoo.com> wrote
There is a configuration that does not limit resolution by the optical
aperture (diffraction). In materials with negative refractive index
(the rays are refracted to the "other" side of the surface normal) it
can be shown that there is no limit to the resolution.
Although such materials do not exist in nature they have been
constructed using repetitive layers of LC (inductance, capacitance)
micro circuits. These have been built and demonstrated using visible
light.
Yes I have read that several times and puzzled over this ever since.
Save me a Google search, any credible reference? Thanks.
I attended two lectures at the University of Michigan on this topic
and saw pictures of demonstrations. This was about 18 months ago.
One (the better) was by someone from England (unfortunately I forget
their details) and the other was through the local OSA by Anthony
Grbic who is presently at the University of Michigan where they are
researching into making thes "metamaterials".
It turns out that if one performs rigerous diffraction analysis that
the NA of the converginf beam no longer limits resolution.
A search on metamaterials has a lot of hits. |
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| W. Watson |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:40 am |
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Guest
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OK, then what's an example of a useful optical device that gets the device
within a 100 or 1000 nanometers of say something in the visible spectrum, or
some other part of the spectrum? Maybe this is another way of also asking
what's close in the case of the visible spectrum? Not being real familiar
with microscopes, I would think that common ones operate within 1/4" or so
of the object. Electron microscopes?
Marc Reinig wrote:
Quote: "W. Watson" <wolf_tracks@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:A1oBj.15662$Ej5.2728@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
It seems then that there really is no practical applications yet for this
idea, particularly not astronomy or even biology (microscopes).
Biology yes, astronomy no ;=)
By near field, it is basically meant optics used close to the object of
interest?
Sort of. It means you need to interact with the near field effects near the
object (hence the term near field). Their intensity decreases exponentially
with distance. However, the optics observing the result of the interaction
can be far away (relatively), since the interaction results in radiating
fields: light as we generally perceive it. Near field interactions must be
within ~wavelength distance (typically much less).
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)
Web Page: <speckledwithStars.net> |
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| Back to top |
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| Charles Manoras |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:39 am |
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Guest
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"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote
Quote: There is a configuration that does not limit resolution by the optical
aperture (diffraction). In materials with negative refractive index
(the rays are refracted to the "other" side of the surface normal) it
can be shown that there is no limit to the resolution.
Although such materials do not exist in nature they have been
constructed using repetitive layers of LC (inductance, capacitance)
micro circuits. These have been built and demonstrated using visible
light.
Yes I have read that several times and puzzled over this ever since.
Save me a Google search, any credible reference? Thanks. |
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| Back to top |
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| Charles Manoras |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:56 am |
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Guest
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"Marc Reinig" wrote
Quote: Scanning Near-Field Optical Microscopes use near field optics to image
features < wave length of the illuminating light.
SERS uses near field effects to identify the presence of single molecules
of a substance
Some optical tweezers use near field effects to grab and move individual
cells and smaller particles.
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
Thanks but I specified far field in my answer.
Near field does not use tricks like the one mentioned by the OP AFAIK.
Are you based in Santa Cruz or Mt Hamilton itself?
Maybe a commute between the two?
You must have an interesting job.
Oops but whar SERS stand for?
OK Surface Enhanced Raman Spectroscopy as per Wikipedia but that appears to
me to be a rather specialized form of microscopy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Fleischman
Martin Fleischmann... It turns out that I know him but my acquaintance goes
back from before his cold fusion days, also I can't remember whatever he
said about SERS then...
In fact he talked mostly about electro-chemistry at the time, perhaps a
harbinger of his future CF "discoveries".
Interesting... So in spite of CF he is quite a legit scientist! :-)
Which BTW is the impression I got back then. |
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| Charles Manoras |
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:01 am |
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