In <k237r3l14mitcjlpk2erhh0fadvoqfr2cv@4ax.com>, V. Roberts wrote in part:

It turns out that the current density in most CFLs is so high that they
generate a lot of blue light. So much in fact that many CFLs use only
a two-component rare earth phosphor mix instead of the normal
three-component mix. There is just too much blue to have any more
coming from the phosphor. (If the phosphor does have all three
components, then the blue component is reduced in small diameter lamps.)

Somehow I see either 3 or 4 phosphor bands/features
Could two of these spectral features be from the same phosphor?

1. The strong orange-red linelike narrow band around 611 nm, along with
some very weak similarly narrow bands nearby from yellow to deep red,

2. a small group of wider but still very narrow bands in the green, with
the dominant feature maybe typically around 542 nm,

3. a dimmer, moderately narrow band in the green-blue/blue-green
with its brightest part around 485-490 nm but extending into the
blue-green around 500 nm, and

4. a wider still blue band, that with CFLs I usually only see when
nominal CCT is at least 3500K, mainly from 440-475 or 440-480 nm or so.

Would you accept the answer that it is tri-phosphor with 0%
of the blue component?

The better answer is that people are familiar with the term
"tri-phosphor" and since the bi-phosphor uses two of the
same components, AND only one of the available color
temperatures uses only two of the components, this is the
best way to explain it to the world.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:44:44 GMT, mroberds@worldnet.att.net
wrote:

FWIW, I saw colored CFLs at Wal-Mart while shopping earlier this
evening. [...] I took a close look at the red and orange ones,
and I *think* they used colored glass, as opposed to a coating
on the outside of clear glass.

I hope they don't use white phosphor and colored glass. What
a waste of energy.

There's very little/none light output decay with either straight LEDs or
LEDs with phosphor;

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:20:16 GMT, "TKM" <noname@no.net
wrote:



There's very little/none light output decay with either straight LEDs or
LEDs with phosphor;

I don't see how you can say this. LED life is now most
often specified as the time at which they have lost 30% of
their initial output. That's worse than most T5 and T8
fluorescent lamps, and would be a considerable challenge for
any color matching system.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com

Over this past weekend I purchased a few screw-base CFLs.
I was greatly disappointed to find out that it was hard or
impossible to determine the color temperature of the CFLs
that I was trying to purchase. And, I'm supposed to be an
expert in this field!

None of the CFLs had a clear statement of the color
temperature on the package. Some of CFLs had numbers such
as 3000K or 5000K in small type buried among the other
numbers on the ballast compartment. We all know that these
refer to the color temperature, but what would these numbers
mean to the typical consumer if they are not identified?

Other CFLs had no indication whatsoever about the color
temperature. And still other CFLs used terminology to
describe the color that was taken from another context and
therefore was meaningless for this use. For example, GE
developed the term Soft White to describe the high diffusive
coating on incandescent lamps. It originally had nothing to
do with color temperature. Now GE is using Soft White to
describe the color temperature of their CFLs and certain
consumer fluorescent lamps. While I was at the store I had
no idea what CCT was associated with the Soft White. After
returning home I determined that GE Soft White CFLs have a
CCT of 2700K, but there are also many other GE CFLs that
have a CCT of 2700K that are not listed as Soft White.

While I understand that some people prefer a CCTs of4000K,
5000K, or even 6500K and respect those decisions, I also
believe that first time users of CFLs may be discouraged
from ever tying one again if they go to the store to by a
replacement for a normal incandescent lamp in their home and
return unknowingly with a 5000K CFL. Half of the bad press
for CFLs comes from what some people consider the "harsh"
light generated high CCT linear fluorescent lamps used in
offices.

I'm rather surprised and disappointed that Energy Star does
not require color temperature to be predominately displayed
on the box along with light output in Lumens and input power
in Watts. I'm going to encourage Energy Star to add the CCT
requirement to CFL packaging.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:0072r3dleo32a9ikv2mo5aoa6n6lkv37em@4ax.com...
Over this past weekend I purchased a few screw-base CFLs.
I was greatly disappointed to find out that it was hard or
impossible to determine the color temperature of the CFLs
that I was trying to purchase. And, I'm supposed to be an
expert in this field!

None of the CFLs had a clear statement of the color
temperature on the package. Some of CFLs had numbers such
as 3000K or 5000K in small type buried among the other
numbers on the ballast compartment. We all know that these
refer to the color temperature, but what would these numbers
mean to the typical consumer if they are not identified?

Other CFLs had no indication whatsoever about the color
temperature. And still other CFLs used terminology to
describe the color that was taken from another context and
therefore was meaningless for this use. For example, GE
developed the term Soft White to describe the high diffusive
coating on incandescent lamps. It originally had nothing to
do with color temperature. Now GE is using Soft White to
describe the color temperature of their CFLs and certain
consumer fluorescent lamps. While I was at the store I had
no idea what CCT was associated with the Soft White. After
returning home I determined that GE Soft White CFLs have a
CCT of 2700K, but there are also many other GE CFLs that
have a CCT of 2700K that are not listed as Soft White.

While I understand that some people prefer a CCTs of4000K,
5000K, or even 6500K and respect those decisions, I also
believe that first time users of CFLs may be discouraged
from ever tying one again if they go to the store to by a
replacement for a normal incandescent lamp in their home and
return unknowingly with a 5000K CFL. Half of the bad press
for CFLs comes from what some people consider the "harsh"
light generated high CCT linear fluorescent lamps used in
offices.

I'm rather surprised and disappointed that Energy Star does
not require color temperature to be predominately displayed
on the box along with light output in Lumens and input power
in Watts. I'm going to encourage Energy Star to add the CCT
requirement to CFL packaging.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.


I'm curious Victor. Where were you shopping? I just bought a couple the
other day (at a big box store)... major brand, and the K temp was clearly
marked on all of them, which incidentally was almost always 2700K regardless
of wattage/size, although they did have some 3500's. I didn't see any 5-6
K's on the shelf.

Willy

Lowe's and Home Depot in Clifton Park, NY

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:20:37 -0400, "Willy"
wesk@prodigy.net> wrote:

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:0072r3dleo32a9ikv2mo5aoa6n6lkv37em@4ax.com...
Over this past weekend I purchased a few screw-base CFLs.
I was greatly disappointed to find out that it was hard or
impossible to determine the color temperature of the CFLs
that I was trying to purchase. And, I'm supposed to be an
expert in this field!

None of the CFLs had a clear statement of the color
temperature on the package. Some of CFLs had numbers such
as 3000K or 5000K in small type buried among the other
numbers on the ballast compartment. We all know that these
refer to the color temperature, but what would these numbers
mean to the typical consumer if they are not identified?

Other CFLs had no indication whatsoever about the color
temperature. And still other CFLs used terminology to
describe the color that was taken from another context and
therefore was meaningless for this use. For example, GE
developed the term Soft White to describe the high diffusive
coating on incandescent lamps. It originally had nothing to
do with color temperature. Now GE is using Soft White to
describe the color temperature of their CFLs and certain
consumer fluorescent lamps. While I was at the store I had
no idea what CCT was associated with the Soft White. After
returning home I determined that GE Soft White CFLs have a
CCT of 2700K, but there are also many other GE CFLs that
have a CCT of 2700K that are not listed as Soft White.

While I understand that some people prefer a CCTs of4000K,
5000K, or even 6500K and respect those decisions, I also
believe that first time users of CFLs may be discouraged
from ever tying one again if they go to the store to by a
replacement for a normal incandescent lamp in their home and
return unknowingly with a 5000K CFL. Half of the bad press
for CFLs comes from what some people consider the "harsh"
light generated high CCT linear fluorescent lamps used in
offices.

I'm rather surprised and disappointed that Energy Star does
not require color temperature to be predominately displayed
on the box along with light output in Lumens and input power
in Watts. I'm going to encourage Energy Star to add the CCT
requirement to CFL packaging.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.


I'm curious Victor. Where were you shopping? I just bought a couple the
other day (at a big box store)... major brand, and the K temp was clearly
marked on all of them, which incidentally was almost always 2700K
regardless
of wattage/size, although they did have some 3500's. I didn't see any 5-6
K's on the shelf.

Willy

Lowe's and Home Depot in Clifton Park, NY

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:g78sv310q2kvfc572d9goforhqn6sceho9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:20:37 -0400, "Willy"
wesk@prodigy.net> wrote:

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:0072r3dleo32a9ikv2mo5aoa6n6lkv37em@4ax.com...
Over this past weekend I purchased a few screw-base CFLs.
I was greatly disappointed to find out that it was hard or
impossible to determine the color temperature of the CFLs
that I was trying to purchase. And, I'm supposed to be an
expert in this field!

None of the CFLs had a clear statement of the color
temperature on the package. Some of CFLs had numbers such
as 3000K or 5000K in small type buried among the other
numbers on the ballast compartment. We all know that these
refer to the color temperature, but what would these numbers
mean to the typical consumer if they are not identified?

Other CFLs had no indication whatsoever about the color
temperature. And still other CFLs used terminology to
describe the color that was taken from another context and
therefore was meaningless for this use. For example, GE
developed the term Soft White to describe the high diffusive
coating on incandescent lamps. It originally had nothing to
do with color temperature. Now GE is using Soft White to
describe the color temperature of their CFLs and certain
consumer fluorescent lamps. While I was at the store I had
no idea what CCT was associated with the Soft White. After
returning home I determined that GE Soft White CFLs have a
CCT of 2700K, but there are also many other GE CFLs that
have a CCT of 2700K that are not listed as Soft White.

While I understand that some people prefer a CCTs of4000K,
5000K, or even 6500K and respect those decisions, I also
believe that first time users of CFLs may be discouraged
from ever tying one again if they go to the store to by a
replacement for a normal incandescent lamp in their home and
return unknowingly with a 5000K CFL. Half of the bad press
for CFLs comes from what some people consider the "harsh"
light generated high CCT linear fluorescent lamps used in
offices.

I'm rather surprised and disappointed that Energy Star does
not require color temperature to be predominately displayed
on the box along with light output in Lumens and input power
in Watts. I'm going to encourage Energy Star to add the CCT
requirement to CFL packaging.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.


I'm curious Victor. Where were you shopping? I just bought a couple the
other day (at a big box store)... major brand, and the K temp was clearly
marked on all of them, which incidentally was almost always 2700K
regardless
of wattage/size, although they did have some 3500's. I didn't see any 5-6
K's on the shelf.

Willy

Lowe's and Home Depot in Clifton Park, NY

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.



That's very interesting as I was at a Home Depot in Aurora, Ohio. These
were Sylvania if memory serves me.

Willy

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:48:25 -0400, "Willy"
wesk@prodigy.net> wrote:

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:g78sv310q2kvfc572d9goforhqn6sceho9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:20:37 -0400, "Willy"
wesk@prodigy.net> wrote:

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:0072r3dleo32a9ikv2mo5aoa6n6lkv37em@4ax.com...
Over this past weekend I purchased a few screw-base CFLs.
I was greatly disappointed to find out that it was hard or
impossible to determine the color temperature of the CFLs
that I was trying to purchase. And, I'm supposed to be an
expert in this field!

None of the CFLs had a clear statement of the color
temperature on the package. Some of CFLs had numbers such
as 3000K or 5000K in small type buried among the other
numbers on the ballast compartment. We all know that these
refer to the color temperature, but what would these numbers
mean to the typical consumer if they are not identified?

Other CFLs had no indication whatsoever about the color
temperature. And still other CFLs used terminology to
describe the color that was taken from another context and
therefore was meaningless for this use. For example, GE
developed the term Soft White to describe the high diffusive
coating on incandescent lamps. It originally had nothing to
do with color temperature. Now GE is using Soft White to
describe the color temperature of their CFLs and certain
consumer fluorescent lamps. While I was at the store I had
no idea what CCT was associated with the Soft White. After
returning home I determined that GE Soft White CFLs have a
CCT of 2700K, but there are also many other GE CFLs that
have a CCT of 2700K that are not listed as Soft White.

While I understand that some people prefer a CCTs of4000K,
5000K, or even 6500K and respect those decisions, I also
believe that first time users of CFLs may be discouraged
from ever tying one again if they go to the store to by a
replacement for a normal incandescent lamp in their home and
return unknowingly with a 5000K CFL. Half of the bad press
for CFLs comes from what some people consider the "harsh"
light generated high CCT linear fluorescent lamps used in
offices.

I'm rather surprised and disappointed that Energy Star does
not require color temperature to be predominately displayed
on the box along with light output in Lumens and input power
in Watts. I'm going to encourage Energy Star to add the CCT
requirement to CFL packaging.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.


I'm curious Victor. Where were you shopping? I just bought a couple
the
other day (at a big box store)... major brand, and the K temp was
clearly
marked on all of them, which incidentally was almost always 2700K
regardless
of wattage/size, although they did have some 3500's. I didn't see any
5-6
K's on the shelf.

Willy

Lowe's and Home Depot in Clifton Park, NY

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.



That's very interesting as I was at a Home Depot in Aurora, Ohio. These
were Sylvania if memory serves me.

Willy

I have the box from for a pair of Sylvania Soft White
micro-mini 13-watt CFLs in front of me. There is no
statement of the CCT on the box, though it is on the ballast
compartment of the lamps.

I have another box for a pair of Sylvania Soft White
micro-mini 20-watt CFLs here also. That box also does not
have any statement of the color temperature.

What Sylvania lamps do you have that list the color
temperature on the box?


--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.