I've been reading about this Hydrostar generator thing, and have some
major doubts.  It just doesn't quite add up...but it's sufficiently
intriguing to hold my interest.  I admit it...I'm a long time fan of
KeelyNet, and a lot of the free energy newsgroups.

Well, I've done the requisite searches on the term, and found that
people are skeptical at best, and downright hostile towards it, at
worst.  But, I have a slightly different way of thinking about this
approach.

OK, take the claim of running your engine on water.  Um...no.  You're
running it, inefficiently, on electricity...electricity stored by
electrolysis.  See?  I do actually have a clue how this works.

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention.
The injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a
subsequent increase in gas mileage.

Assumption:  At idle, my alternator produces enough current to keep my
battery charged.  Anything else is simply excess.  So, while actually
driving, my alternator produces current beyond that which is necessary
to charge my battery.  If that excess current is used to produce
hydrogen, that hydrogen (now combustible "fuel") is essentially free.

Assumption 2:  If memory serves, plain air is combustible with as
little as 3% hydrogen enrichment...and at higher concentrations, it
achieves a stable burn.  But we won't be burning plain hydrogen in
air...  Approaching it from this direction, it should be possible to
*enrich* the mixture of gas and air with hydrogen from an electrolysis
cell, and consequently burn less gasoline in the process.

Question:  Does this approach have merit, or is it just a pipe dream?

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice.  My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline.  Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

Is this approach realistic?  I've not worked the numbers, but it does
at least seem plausible.

     -- Chuck Knight

Chuck, lots of luck, because you dream of running your car off of
water is not even plausible.

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

I've been reading about this Hydrostar generator thing, and have some
major doubts. It just doesn't quite add up...but it's sufficiently
intriguing to hold my interest. I admit it...I'm a long time fan of
KeelyNet, and a lot of the free energy newsgroups.

Well, I've done the requisite searches on the term, and found that
people are skeptical at best, and downright hostile towards it, at
worst. But, I have a slightly different way of thinking about this
approach.

OK, take the claim of running your engine on water. Um...no. You're
running it, inefficiently, on electricity...electricity stored by
electrolysis. See? I do actually have a clue how this works.

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention.
The injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a
subsequent increase in gas mileage.

Assumption: At idle, my alternator produces enough current to keep my
battery charged. Anything else is simply excess. So, while actually
driving, my alternator produces current beyond that which is necessary
to charge my battery. If that excess current is used to produce
hydrogen, that hydrogen (now combustible "fuel") is essentially free.

Assumption 2: If memory serves, plain air is combustible with as
little as 3% hydrogen enrichment...and at higher concentrations, it
achieves a stable burn. But we won't be burning plain hydrogen in
air... Approaching it from this direction, it should be possible to
*enrich* the mixture of gas and air with hydrogen from an electrolysis
cell, and consequently burn less gasoline in the process.

Question: Does this approach have merit, or is it just a pipe dream?

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

Is this approach realistic? I've not worked the numbers, but it does
at least seem plausible.

-- Chuck Knight

Chuck, lots of luck, because you dream of running your car off of
water is not even plausible.


Um...I know I said I don't want to run the car off of water. I even
said it's impossible.

Here's the quote:


My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.


What I asked is whether it's possible to use the excess electricity
generated by my alternator at higher speeds to generate hydrogen.
-- Chuck Knight

I've been reading about this Hydrostar generator thing, and have some
major doubts. It just doesn't quite add up...but it's sufficiently
intriguing to hold my interest. I admit it...I'm a long time fan of
KeelyNet, and a lot of the free energy newsgroups.

Well, I've done the requisite searches on the term, and found that
people are skeptical at best, and downright hostile towards it, at
worst. But, I have a slightly different way of thinking about this
approach.

OK, take the claim of running your engine on water. Um...no. You're
running it, inefficiently, on electricity...electricity stored by
electrolysis. See? I do actually have a clue how this works.

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention.
The injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a
subsequent increase in gas mileage.

Assumption: At idle, my alternator produces enough current to keep my
battery charged. Anything else is simply excess. So, while actually
driving, my alternator produces current beyond that which is necessary
to charge my battery. If that excess current is used to produce
hydrogen, that hydrogen (now combustible "fuel") is essentially free.

Assumption 2: If memory serves, plain air is combustible with as
little as 3% hydrogen enrichment...and at higher concentrations, it
achieves a stable burn. But we won't be burning plain hydrogen in
air... Approaching it from this direction, it should be possible to
*enrich* the mixture of gas and air with hydrogen from an electrolysis
cell, and consequently burn less gasoline in the process.

Question: Does this approach have merit, or is it just a pipe dream?

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

Is this approach realistic? I've not worked the numbers, but it does
at least seem plausible.

-- Chuck Knight

On Feb 2, 11:54 pm, Chuck <chuckkni...@gmail.com> wrote:



I've been reading about this Hydrostar generator thing, and have some
major doubts. It just doesn't quite add up...but it's sufficiently
intriguing to hold my interest. I admit it...I'm a long time fan of
KeelyNet, and a lot of the free energy newsgroups.

Well, I've done the requisite searches on the term, and found that
people are skeptical at best, and downright hostile towards it, at
worst. But, I have a slightly different way of thinking about this
approach.

OK, take the claim of running your engine on water. Um...no. You're
running it, inefficiently, on electricity...electricity stored by
electrolysis. See? I do actually have a clue how this works.

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention.
The injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a
subsequent increase in gas mileage.

Assumption: At idle, my alternator produces enough current to keep my
battery charged. Anything else is simply excess. So, while actually
driving, my alternator produces current beyond that which is necessary
to charge my battery. If that excess current is used to produce
hydrogen, that hydrogen (now combustible "fuel") is essentially free.

Assumption 2: If memory serves, plain air is combustible with as
little as 3% hydrogen enrichment...and at higher concentrations, it
achieves a stable burn. But we won't be burning plain hydrogen in
air... Approaching it from this direction, it should be possible to
*enrich* the mixture of gas and air with hydrogen from an electrolysis
cell, and consequently burn less gasoline in the process.

Question: Does this approach have merit, or is it just a pipe dream?

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

Is this approach realistic? I've not worked the numbers, but it does
at least seem plausible.

-- Chuck Knight

Chuck, lots of luck, because you dream of running your car off of
water is not even plausible.

Crack any textbook on physics or physical chemistry and you'll learn
why.

Harry C.

I've been reading about this Hydrostar generator thing, and have some
major doubts. It just doesn't quite add up...but it's sufficiently
intriguing to hold my interest. I admit it...I'm a long time fan of
KeelyNet, and a lot of the free energy newsgroups.

Well, I've done the requisite searches on the term, and found that people
are skeptical at best, and downright hostile towards it, at worst. But, I
have a slightly different way of thinking about this approach.

OK, take the claim of running your engine on water. Um...no. You're
running it, inefficiently, on electricity...electricity stored by
electrolysis. See? I do actually have a clue how this works.

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention. The
injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a subsequent
increase in gas mileage.

Assumption: At idle, my alternator produces enough current to keep my
battery charged. Anything else is simply excess. So, while actually
driving, my alternator produces current beyond that which is necessary to
charge my battery.

If that excess current is used to produce hydrogen,
that hydrogen (now combustible "fuel") is essentially free.

Assumption 2: If memory serves, plain air is combustible with as little
as 3% hydrogen enrichment...and at higher concentrations, it achieves a
stable burn. But we won't be burning plain hydrogen in air...
Approaching it from this direction, it should be possible to *enrich* the
mixture of gas and air with hydrogen from an electrolysis cell, and
consequently burn less gasoline in the process.

Question: Does this approach have merit, or is it just a pipe dream?

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

Is this approach realistic? I've not worked the numbers, but it does at
least seem plausible.

Chuck <chuckkni...@gmail.com> wrote in news:496f5abe-800f-4568-9964-
fbd93f282...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention.
The injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a
subsequent increase in gas mileage.

The only glimmer of hope in this assumption is that the injection of
some hydrogen might somehow modify the combustion process, but it's
very doubtful any additional energy realized will offset the losses
to any meaningful degree. Reality check: if it were valid, it'd
already have been done on a large scale.

As pointed out elsewhere, your basic assumptions are in error.

--Damon Thermodynamics is one MEAN bitch and she won't let you go.

Chuck, lots of luck, because you dream of running your car off of
water is not even plausible.

Um...I know I said I don't want to run the car off of water.  I even
said it's impossible.

Here's the quote:

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice.  My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline.  Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

What I asked is whether it's possible to use the excess electricity
generated by my alternator at higher speeds to generate hydrogen...and
use that hydrogen to decrease the amount of gasoline burned.  Not to
get rid of gasoline...not to run my car off of water...just to
decrease the amount of gasoline that I burn.

Not free energy...never, ever, ever.  While I do enjoy reading about
John Worrel Keely, and realize that this is where the Hydrostar
builders came up with their 19KHz frequency, that doesn't mean that I
believe in the stuff.

     --  Chuck Knight

Chuck, lots of luck, because you dream of running your car off of
water is not even plausible.

Um...I know I said I don't want to run the car off of water. I even
said it's impossible.

Here's the quote:

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

What I asked is whether it's possible to use the excess electricity
generated by my alternator at higher speeds to generate hydrogen...and
use that hydrogen to decrease the amount of gasoline burned. Not to
get rid of gasoline...not to run my car off of water...just to
decrease the amount of gasoline that I burn.

Not free energy...never, ever, ever. While I do enjoy reading about
John Worrel Keely, and realize that this is where the Hydrostar
builders came up with their 19KHz frequency, that doesn't mean that I
believe in the stuff.

-- Chuck Knight

On Feb 3, 12:09 am, Chuck <chuckkni...@gmail.com> wrote:



Chuck, lots of luck, because you dream of running your car off of
water is not even plausible.

Um...I know I said I don't want to run the car off of water. I even
said it's impossible.

Here's the quote:

My desire isn't to run my car off of water...it's not within the realm
of reality, though it would be nice. My desire is, instead, to simply
increase my gas mileage so that I end up buying less gasoline. Yes, I
already check my tires, tune up the car, etc...I want more.

What I asked is whether it's possible to use the excess electricity
generated by my alternator at higher speeds to generate hydrogen...and
use that hydrogen to decrease the amount of gasoline burned. Not to
get rid of gasoline...not to run my car off of water...just to
decrease the amount of gasoline that I burn.

Not free energy...never, ever, ever. While I do enjoy reading about
John Worrel Keely, and realize that this is where the Hydrostar
builders came up with their 19KHz frequency, that doesn't mean that I
believe in the stuff.

-- Chuck Knight

I understand. The scheme that you described was closely similar to
Stan Meyer's classic scam, that was described as making a car that
would run on water, and that's why I employed that description. I you
like to read about crackpot science, here one of the funnier sites in
free energy (I much prefer myself reading about the quack medical
devices, and the people that promoted them).

http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html

Others have now explained in considerable detail why you cannot tap
the alternator generated electricity to produce hydrogen through and
form of electrolysis and end up with any result except a net energy
loss, so there is no need to repeat what has already been posted.

Free energy research is a noble goal, but unfortunately impossible to
obtain, in spite of a huge number of attempts (all failed) at doing
so. Man has always attracted to perpetual motion engines of various
types. It's probably fortunate that none of these devices has or will
ever work because all energy applied to performing work will
eventually end up as heat.

I still marvel at the production of energy through nuclear fission,
which is of course not free energy since fuel is consumed in the
process. Still, when you consider that by reacting elements (that have
existed on our planet for millions or possiblly billions of years)
under the right conditions release enormous amounts of energy, it
seems almost magical. As a physicist, I speculate on what other
mysteries held by nature are yet to be discovered and revealed during
the coming 200 or so years. I also sometimes wonder what the
unintended consequences might also be.

Since you mentioned Tesla, I recognize his magnificent contributions
to polyphase electricity, and everyone does. Still, his strange ideas
about wireless transmission of electrical power suggest that he was
not quite up to the basic scientfic knowledge of his contemporary
counterparts. Tesla coils are fun, but have very little practicality
except when used on a very small scale in niche applications, and the
Tesla coil itself is simply a refinement of devices that had existed
for years before Tesla was born. Sadly, there was a time in Tesla's
life changed him from genius to insanity. As much as I have read about
the man, no research has yet demonstrated when in his life that
transition took place. Were a complete collection of his notes and
papers to be made available, I believe that point would be easily
identifiable, but unfortunately (as least as far as I have been able
to find), no such collection has ever been made available. I believe
that it could be extremely productive to study his notes leading up to
that transition point.

Just sharing some of my own thoughts...

Harry C.

Strangely, though, one of their claims actually caught my attention.
The injection of the hydrogen into the combustion chamber, and a
subsequent increase in gas mileage.

I thank you for your input, and your obvious level of expertise. This
is *why* I asked the question here, and not over on the free energy
group...Keely may be fun to read, but his stuff just can't work in the
real world. (Tesla is fun too, but his stuff actually worked)

If my assumptions had been correct, it would have had a glimmer of
hope...it appears that they're not.

My sincerest appreciation to you all, for all your input. I shall
look into the H2O2 tank, and what is involved in its implementation.
Peroxide is pretty easily available.

-- Chuck Knight