"phil scott" <phil@philscott.net> wrote
Your rose colored glasses were solidly in place
here on this NG a year ago, in denial re the
ramifications of the sub prime mess to a large
extent...



Everyone involved in the sub-prime loans stepped into it of their own free
will.

It's a small fraction of the global loans and global real estate market.

It's impact is only magnified today because of other negative economic
factors and the media coverage.

..and now your rose colored glasses are distorting your view of
'recovery'...



Define "recovery".



train wrecks are not recoverable...



But it's just a traain wreck. The wreckage is cleaned up, the track
repaired, lessons learned, the injured treated, the dead buried, and
passengers ride those same rails again - in a very short time. Life
goes on.

The world doesn't come to a grinding stop. All hell doesn't break out.
Ridership on other trains is unaffected.

They are priced in dollars (at least here in the US).

That's what I just said, the dollar isn't a valid
reference to compare dollar value by.

Stop snipping the dialog then use pronouns for reference.

To recap, we were speaking of the DOW and you said that it
would be worth more in five years in dollars.

I responded that is a false reference,

comparing value in dollars between now and the future

The companies in the DOW index are trans-national, using any single
currency to value them now and in the future is inherently false.

Ok, doorknobs. What else do you want to put in the basket?

They should be everyday items needed by normal families,
some typical food items, clothing, shoes, transportation,
entertainment and especially foreign currencies.

Everyone involved in the sub-prime loans stepped
into it of their own free will.

That's been shown not to be true.

It's a small fraction of the global loans
and global real estate market.

How small?

We've not yet seen even the tip of the mortgage disaster

Far from over, you're seeing only the first wave.

"Curly Surmudgeon" <Curly.is....@home.com> wrote

Everyone involved in the sub-prime loans stepped
into it of their own free will.

That's been shown not to be true.

Yeah.........

I've not heard of one person who was forced, beyond their own free will,
actually against their will, into signing a note for a sub-prime loan.
There's laws that would invalidate that contract on the books in all 50
states.

Nope. They might not have *understood* the risks. They might not have
*read* the contract. Greed and lust has a way of blinding some folks into
not caring to understand that what they are doing can be harmful.

No one seemed to care that the market was over blown - way the hell over
blown - yet they kept on buying, and selling, and buying, and buying, and
borrowing against an inflated equity, and buying, and borrowing against an
increasingly bloated unsupportable equity.

The balloon popped. It was a big balloon. It'll take time to pick up the
pieces. But ya know, there'll be winners out of this mess, and there'll be
losers out of this mess. Same for the stock market bubble bust from the
late 90's into the early 00's. People who knew better came out ahead. They
were the ones who made sane choices.

It's a small fraction of the global loans
and global real estate market.

How small?

Do you not know?

We've not yet seen even the tip of the mortgage disaster

Yup, there are lots of greedy people out there who didn't bother to read
or
understand what they were getting into.....of their own free will.

It's happened before, in other places, with other markets.....

And it'll happend again, in another time and with another market.

It might even happen in the housing market all over again.

We've gotten very good at creating a hyped up market for something - like
who knew that I'd ~need~ to check my e-mail from my phone - what's next? -
making a phone call with my camera?

The stock market was DOOMED-----DOOMED I SAY------and it did go down, and
it
came up, and went down, and came up, and came up and went down. And you
know something - it'll go down and come up again, and go down again, and
come up again. Just like the sun.

Same for the housing market. Up - Down - Up - Down - Up - Down - Up. All
you need is a drill seargent barking out cadance.

"Ohhhhhhh.........but the sky is falling...."

Give me a break.

Far from over, you're seeing only the first wave.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cow jumped over the moon, and Ron Paul is going
to have the election stolen from his billions of dedicated followers by
the
elite and secretive cartel that rules the world from Area 51, and all
those
other wacky things people say. Look, if enough of you make enough claims -
and you guys make all kinds of wild proclomations - you're bound to get
something right every once and a while, and somehow you believe that
validates all the other crap that you put forth.

I predict that housing prices will fall, then go up, then fall again, then
go up.......

I see in the future there will be as many homes sold as there are homes
bought.

--
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.
----------
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia

Anyone want to predict what Tuesday will bring?

stocks will not be struggling...they will be sinking...then turning to
sludge at the bottom of the pond shortly..

Not really, both are based upon the value of the dollar not any basis in
reality. The dollar is disintegrating,

Lost of things move in different directions for lots of reasons.
Gold and other hard commodities like that often move in opposite
directions than that of stocks.

Then pick a basket of commodities.

Nothing, let's head to checkout where we'll pay in dollars.

You see, whatever you use will be boiled down to dollars.

They should be everyday items needed by normal families,
some typical food items, clothing, shoes, transportation,
entertainment and especially foreign currencies.

Oh yeah, foreign currencies are "everyday items needed by normal families".

In simple words you might understand --- Since I was replying solely to your
last note, I snipped all that came before as being unessential. There were
no grammatical errors. And all I did was accurately and tersely point out
your inanities.

Yet, that's how they are priced, and that's how you percieve their
*value* - in US dollars.

Stop snipping the dialog then use pronouns for reference.

Ok, I'll use adverbs if you'll feel better.

To recap, we were speaking of the DOW and you said that it would be
worth more in five years in dollars.



And it will. It will take more dollars to buy the same percentage of
the company....pick a company.




I responded that is a false reference,


You brought it up.

comparing value in dollars between now and the future


What would you like to compare it to then?


Apples?

Wing Nuts?

Big Macs?




The companies in the DOW index are trans-national, using any single
currency to value them now and in the future is inherently false.


Then-------what do you propose to value them against?



A glass of water?

A breath of air?





Ok, doorknobs. What else do you want to put in the basket?


Nothing, let's head to checkout where we'll pay in dollars.

You see, whatever you use will be boiled down to dollars.





They should be everyday items needed by normal families, some typical
food items, clothing, shoes, transportation, entertainment and
especially foreign currencies.



Oh yeah, foreign currencies are "everyday items needed by normal
families".

That reminds me, payday is coming up. Maybe I'll pay my people with a
10 million Zimbabwe dollar note each. Surely it's among your list of
"everyday items needed by normal families". And hey!! They'll have 10
million of them.

On Jan 21, 10:14 pm, "Paul Thomas" <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net
wrote:
"Curly Surmudgeon" <Curly.is....@home.com> wrote

Everyone involved in the sub-prime loans stepped
into it of their own free will.

That's been shown not to be true.

Yeah.........

I've not heard of one person who was forced, beyond their own free
will, actually against their will, into signing a note for a
sub-prime loan. There's laws that would invalidate that contract on
the books in all 50 states.

Nope. They might not have *understood* the risks. They might not have
*read* the contract. Greed and lust has a way of blinding some folks
into not caring to understand that what they are doing can be
harmful.

No one seemed to care that the market was over blown - way the hell
over blown - yet they kept on buying, and selling, and buying, and
buying, and borrowing against an inflated equity, and buying, and
borrowing against an increasingly bloated unsupportable equity.

The balloon popped. It was a big balloon. It'll take time to pick up
the pieces. But ya know, there'll be winners out of this mess, and
there'll be losers out of this mess. Same for the stock market
bubble bust from the late 90's into the early 00's. People who knew
better came out ahead. They were the ones who made sane choices.

It's a small fraction of the global loans
and global real estate market.

How small?

Do you not know?

We've not yet seen even the tip of the mortgage disaster

Yup, there are lots of greedy people out there who didn't bother to
read or understand what they were getting into.....of their own free
will.

It's happened before, in other places, with other markets.....

And it'll happend again, in another time and with another market.

It might even happen in the housing market all over again.

We've gotten very good at creating a hyped up market for something -
like who knew that I'd ~need~ to check my e-mail from my phone -
what's next? - making a phone call with my camera?

The stock market was DOOMED-----DOOMED I SAY------and it did go
down, and it came up, and went down, and came up, and came up and
went down. And you know something - it'll go down and come up again,
and go down again, and come up again. Just like the sun.

Same for the housing market. Up - Down - Up - Down - Up - Down - Up.
All you need is a drill seargent barking out cadance.

"Ohhhhhhh.........but the sky is falling...."

Give me a break.

Far from over, you're seeing only the first wave.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cow jumped over the moon, and Ron Paul is
going to have the election stolen from his billions of dedicated
followers by the elite and secretive cartel that rules the world
from Area 51, and all those other wacky things people say. Look, if
enough of you make enough claims - and you guys make all kinds of
wild proclomations - you're bound to get something right every once
and a while, and somehow you believe that validates all the other
crap that you put forth.

I predict that housing prices will fall, then go up, then fall
again, then go up.......

I see in the future there will be as many homes sold as there are
homes bought.

--
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.
----------
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia

Anyone want to predict what Tuesday will bring?

In article <fn4qi8$f43$4@reader2.panix.com>,
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

In misc.survivalism theloneranger100@aol.com wrote:

Anyone want to predict what Tuesday will bring?


Buying opportunities.

Lots of people lost their shirts buying bargains in 1929

Again, you snipped the thread avoiding the original words.

You posted: "Five years from now we'll see
much higher DOW numbers than today"

which elicited my question: "No doubt but
will the numbers in five years represent
greater value than in January 2000?"

My point was/is that the "numbers" you imply meaningful really aren't
without relationship to some real world merchandise or property. The
"numbers" represent dollar prices of 25 stocks. Each of these stocks are
transnational both in services and ownership. The Dow moves not only by
company perceived value but by international currency fluxuations.

That elicted my response: "That's what I just said, the dollar isn't a
valid reference to compare dollar value by. To which you replied:

Yet, that's how they are priced, and that's how you percieve their
*value* - in US dollars.

No, that is _not_ how I perceive value.

Nor most of the world, the dollar is but the barter
commodity however that commodity varies
continuously and must be factored into "value."

Yes, I did and you've lost sight of the thread and morphed the dialog by
snipping and speaking in pronouns.

They should be everyday items needed by normal families, some typical
food items, clothing, shoes, transportation, entertainment and
especially foreign currencies.


If you want to have a real dialog then stop the distractions and
misrepresentation.

Anyone want to predict what Tuesday will bring?

Across the region, government officials and economists
blamed the selling on worries about the United States economy,