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Bret Cahill
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:14 pm
Guest
It's perfectly OK to discuss some types of distributions found in
nature. These include, say, the strength of a lot of carbon fibers or
the time loading on an airplane wing.

There's another distribution, however, that you cannot discuss:

Income distribution.

If you so much as even make a peep about ave. _mean_ income then
they'll start screaming that you are "just like Hitler, Stalin, Ross
Perot, David Duke and Chinghis Khan all rolled up into one!"

It's curious. If you run a reliability analysis on a structure you
are OK, even useful to society.

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.

And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.


Bret Cahill
Lars Eighner
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:35 pm
Guest
In our last episode,
<1193771663.616889.244250@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

Quote:
But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.

And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?
Jerry Kraus
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:41 pm
Guest
On Oct 30, 2:35 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
Quote:
In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?

Bret is, I think, referring to analyzing income distribution in any
way, shape or form. Mean, median, standard deviation, plots, curves
etc. The rich hate this. It makes them look, well, kinda greedy.
Like they have just a little too big a piece of the pie, for the good
of the rest of us. Gee, I wonder why.
ta
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:11 pm
Guest
On Oct 30, 3:35 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
Quote:
In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?

What would "normal" income distribution look like?
Bret Cahill
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:13 pm
Guest
Quote:
But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.

And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed.

Neither are the kinetic energies of molecules of a gas.

But if you draw the distribution of the KE of a gas no one screams
"Hitler, Stalin, Ross Perot and David Duke all rolled up into one."

Quote:
The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

Yet "median" income _is_ meaningful?


Bret Cahill
Jerry Kraus
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm
Guest
On Oct 30, 3:11 pm, ta <padl...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 30, 3:35 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:





In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?

What would "normal" income distribution look like?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's a statistical term -- the "normal" distribution is a standard
curve. Income doesn't fit it very well. But the point is, most rich
people don't want income distribution analyzed at all. It makes them
look greedy.
tg
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:36 pm
Guest
On Oct 30, 4:11 pm, ta <padl...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 30, 3:35 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:



In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?

What would "normal" income distribution look like?


http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/eda/section3/histogr6.htm

Explains his point.

-tg
sinister
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:51 pm
Guest
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1193771663.616889.244250@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
It's perfectly OK to discuss some types of distributions found in
nature. These include, say, the strength of a lot of carbon fibers or
the time loading on an airplane wing.

There's another distribution, however, that you cannot discuss:

Income distribution.

IMHO it's much more interesting to discuss the distribution of _wealth_.

Quote:
If you so much as even make a peep about ave. _mean_ income then
they'll start screaming that you are "just like Hitler, Stalin, Ross
Perot, David Duke and Chinghis Khan all rolled up into one!"

It's curious. If you run a reliability analysis on a structure you
are OK, even useful to society.

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.

And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.


Bret Cahill
Bret Cahill
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:02 pm
Guest
Quote:
But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?

What would "normal" income distribution look like?

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/eda/section3/histogr6.htm

Explains his point.

We need a reference that suggests average mean only applies to normal
distributions.

Right now we have _one and only one_ distribution out of the jillions
found in Nature that is unique in that the median value is meaningful
but the ave. mean value is meaningless.


Bret Cahill
Lars Eighner
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:08 pm
Guest
In our last episode,
<1193775111.573385.61640@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
the lovely and talented ta
broadcast on alt.politics:

Quote:
On Oct 30, 3:35 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?

What would "normal" income distribution look like?

A normal distribution is generally described as "bell shaped." In a normal
distribution, the mean, the median, and the mode are all the same.

The distribution of incomes is an exaggerated reverse J shape, which is to
say, almost everyone makes almost nothing, and almost no one makes almost
everything.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?
Jerry Kraus
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:10 pm
Guest
On Oct 30, 4:08 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
Quote:
In our last episode,
1193775111.573385.61...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
the lovely and talented ta
broadcast on alt.politics:





On Oct 30, 3:35 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it
will come to a horrific end.
And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for example),
income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless (yes,
meaningless) statistic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?
What would "normal" income distribution look like?

A normal distribution is generally described as "bell shaped." In a normal
distribution, the mean, the median, and the mode are all the same.

The distribution of incomes is an exaggerated reverse J shape, which is to
say, almost everyone makes almost nothing, and almost no one makes almost
everything.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think that is exactly Bret's point. The rich don't really want the
poor to know that.
Lars Eighner
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:16 pm
Guest
In our last episode, <hNSdne5xLKn_BLranZ2dnUVZ_oqhnZ2d@comcast.com>, the
lovely and talented sinister broadcast on alt.politics:

Quote:
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1193771663.616889.244250@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
It's perfectly OK to discuss some types of distributions found in
nature. These include, say, the strength of a lot of carbon fibers or
the time loading on an airplane wing.

There's another distribution, however, that you cannot discuss:

Income distribution.

IMHO it's much more interesting to discuss the distribution of _wealth_.

Modern economic doctrine is that wealth is used to produce income, so
largely the distribution of wealth and the distribution of income are merely
two ways of looking at the same thing. Indeed, the distributions are very
similar and so skewed that is difficult to work with them at all except on
logrithmic scales. See pareto distribution.


--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 447 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?
pico
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:21 pm
Guest
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1193771663.616889.244250@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
It's perfectly OK to discuss some types of distributions found in
nature. These include, say, the strength of a lot of carbon fibers or
the time loading on an airplane wing.

There's another distribution, however, that you cannot discuss:

Income distribution.

Nonsense. We will discuss it until the sky falls if you like.
pico
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:24 pm
Guest
"Jerry Kraus" <jkraus_1999@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1193773299.686012.101980@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Quote:
Bret is, I think, referring to analyzing income distribution in any
way, shape or form. Mean, median, standard deviation, plots, curves
etc. The rich hate this. It makes them look, well, kinda greedy.
Like they have just a little too big a piece of the pie, for the good
of the rest of us. Gee, I wonder why.

I know some millionaires and they don't mind such data. Not one bit.
Robert Vienneau
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:29 pm
Guest
On 10/30/2007 15:35:46 Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:

Quote:
In our last episode,
1193771663.616889.244250@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented Bret Cahill broadcast on alt.politics:

But if you so much as say "mean income" life on earth as we know it will
come to a horrific end.

And the most curious part of it all is no one can explain why.

Here's why: unlike many variables (strength of carbon fibers, for
example), income is *not* normally distributed. The mean is a useless
(yes, meaningless) statistic.

No. The ratio of the mean to the median is one indicator of how skewed
to the rich that distribution is.

(There are other statistics for testing for non-normal distribution.
I happen to have the privilege of being among the first few to
implement the Ozturk's statistic in computer code.)

--
Whether strength of body or of mind, or wisdom, or virtue,
are found in proportion to the power or wealth of a man is
a question fit perhaps to be discussed by slaves in the
hearing of their masters, but highly unbecoming to
reasonable and free men in search of the truth.
-- Jean Jacques Rousseau
 
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