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| Njygaard |
 Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:49 am |
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:03:02 +0100, "Martin Reboul"
<martin@SPAMFUKreboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[quote:37983f17b9]
"Uno Hu" <lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:9dff2144.0404190039.89283f8@posting.google.com...
Yuri Kuchinsky <yuku@clio.trends.ca> wrote
[/quote:37983f17b9]
....
[quote:37983f17b9]Failing that, the reverse seems indicated; The tailors shorthand was a
relic of a previous tradition of writing runes that, being isolated
from mainstream literary innovation, maintained a higher degree of
literary conservatism.
True, but it shows that in 1895 (three years before the discovery of the KRS),
these runes were being used and were known about - apparently by an 18 year
old tailor of all people. In other words, the 'knowledge' of them *was*
around, which certain people have been categorically assuring us was
impossible.
[/quote:37983f17b9]
Beats me; blame the protestants. Any relic of indigenous norse culture
are considered "heathen" by the scandinavian state churches. They
still get very defensive if you suggest any prechristian cultural
traits could have survived the conversion to christianity. Seems this
naughty little meme has wormed itself into our history writing too.
Gotta look out for that one in the future.
.... |
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| Philip Deitiker |
| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:13 pm |
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Njygaard <Nandonites@hotmail.com> says in
news:ius780924orvtlcp7duac2ij99prt8ihek@4ax.com:
[quote:d7ca4815fe]Beats me; blame the protestants. Any relic of indigenous
norse culture are considered "heathen" by the scandinavian
state churches. They still get very defensive if you
suggest any prechristian cultural traits could have
survived the conversion to christianity. Seems this naughty
little meme has wormed itself into our history writing too.
Gotta look out for that one in the future.
[/quote:d7ca4815fe]
Of course that is the inherant hippocracy of the HRC. People go
underground with their religious beliefs. Examples of which are
friday night catholics in Mexico (who light menora like candles
on friday night some still carry on with jewish prayers). They
beat the gnostics into the ground, only to have the masons pop
out later from the same areas. HRC is just quite happy to have
movements underground as long as they are not a political threat
to the churches authority. Ole martin luther was one of thier
own, but when he skismed a whole bunch of groups suddenly
appeared within 100 years or so. According to some the galatians
were christianized and christianity spread into the heart of
western europe via the celts. However the hybrid celtic/
christian beleifs were incompatible with roman authority, and
the HRC saw any religion that deviated from what constantine
proposed to be heresay, to be quickly destroyed.
Most of the protestant churches simply are revisions of the
HRC, IMHO, they don't even realize what the HRC has tmapered
with in ancient christianity and most scholars of early
christianity are aware that several transformations took place
in rome as a result of purges, the fall of jeruselum, etc.
There were probably some peoples who quitely subdued to the
HRC but kept their pre-christian traditions alive in some back
closet, etc. Up until recently if you were not a member of the
power church within any given state, you did exactly stand up
and scream it to the world.
--
Philip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Mol. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNAanthro/
Mol. Evol. Hominids http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/
Evol. of Xchrom.
http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/xlinked.htm
Pal. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paleoanthro/
Sci. Arch. Aux
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sciarchauxilliary/ |
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| Doug Weller |
| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:19 pm |
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:38:18 GMT, Inger E Johansson wrote:
[quote:61148849e3]We, because it's we, have evidence of at least three Norse-Greenlandic
voyages into mid North America. The first one in or around 1080's, we have
now the name(s) which stood on Verendre's stone. Did you know it was copied
while being studied by monks in Canada before being shipped to France and
lost? Actually the name of the dead person and his father's name also make a
real disputed finding authentic, because no one can believe that Verendre
forged a Nordic stone????
[/quote:61148849e3]
Are you claiming that the Jesuits made a copy which is still extant?
His name was Pierre Gautier de Varennes, Sieur de Verendrye (also called
Pierre de la Verendrye and Chevalier de Verendrye (although this may be his
son)and I've seen a spelling Verandrye), by the way, not Verendre.
Doug |
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| Daryl Krupa |
| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:32 pm |
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Njygaard <Nandonites@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ius780924orvtlcp7duac2ij99prt8ihek@4ax.com>...
<snip>
[quote:8809b6f257]Any relic of indigenous norse culture are considered "heathen"
by the scandinavian state churches. They still get very defensive
if you suggest any prechristian cultural traits could have
survived the conversion to christianity.
snip[/quote:8809b6f257]
Whattttt!!!???
How do they explain Christmas Trees, then????
Daryl Krupa |
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| Philip Deitiker |
| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:52 am |
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Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> says in
news:tia9809v9t35p2d3qcpopqcb4hl8n80rg6@4ax.com:
[quote:3a6db32dc6]On 19 Apr 2004 22:47:20 GMT, Philip Deitiker
Nopdeitik@att.net.Spam> wrote:
In sci.archaeology, Doug Weller created a message
ID news:ukrqzs3jg406.mxzbd9yzok9u.dlg@40tude.net:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:38:18 GMT, Inger E Johansson
wrote:
We, because it's we, have evidence of at least three
Norse-
Greenlandic
voyages into mid North America. The first one in or
around
1080's, we have
now the name(s) which stood on Verendre's stone. Did you
know it was copied
while being studied by monks in Canada before being
shipped
to France and
lost? Actually the name of the dead person and his
father's
name also make a
real disputed finding authentic, because no one can
believe
that Verendre
forged a Nordic stone????
Are you claiming that the Jesuits made a copy which is
still
extant?
His name was Pierre Gautier de Varennes, Sieur de
Verendrye
(also called
Pierre de la Verendrye and Chevalier de Verendrye
(although
this may be his
son)and I've seen a spelling Verandrye), by the way, not
Verendre.
http://www.famousamericans.net/pierregautierdeyarennesdelave
randrye/
If the quote is anything to go by, the site is a grab-bag
of superficial scholarship. While the main thrust is not
too far wrong, almost everything they say is slightly off
the beam. Apart from that, the first time I tried the URL
it came up empty. The second time it didn't come up with
anything like your quote.
[/quote:3a6db32dc6]
I was providing a response to Doug, not you, on where Mrs.
diversionary babble BA history is getting her bunk from.
--
Philip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Mol. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNAanthro/
Mol. Evol. Hominids http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/
Evol. of Xchrom.
http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/xlinked.htm
Pal. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paleoanthro/
Sci. Arch. Aux
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sciarchauxilliary/ |
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| Philip Deitiker |
| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:13 pm |
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| t(nospam)kavanagh |
| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:40 pm |
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Philip Deitiker wrote:
[quote:07af2e2cd6]
"t(nospam)kavanagh" <"tkavanag"@(nospam)indiana.edu> says in
news:c63lea$5mh$1@hood.uits.indiana.edu:
smallpot?
Ingrish for smallpox
Now I would be willing to be you know exactly how many Mandam
survived and what there numbers currently are in the 3 tribes.
[/quote:07af2e2cd6]
Mandan pre-1837 estimates:
1750: 9,000
1780: 4,000
after 1781 smallpox: 1,000-1,500
After 1837 smallpox: less than 150
Arikara (1950): 682
Mandan (1945): 387; (1990):1,207
Hidatsa (1950): 933
Three Affiliated Tribes (1998) 8,750
tk |
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| Yuri Kuchinsky |
| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:50 pm |
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In sci.archaeology Martin Reboul <martin@spamfukreboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
: Yuri "Konspirisy" Kuchinsky wrote...
It's true that from time to time I enjoy making fun of the conspiracy
buffs in these ngs.
For those logically-impaired, opposing conspiracies isn't the same as
embracing them... But I'm afraid this distinction is entirely lost on Mr.
Reboul. Alas!
It seems like Mr. Reboul is only interested in making false accusations
here. He's made the same accusation many times already...
Plonk!
Yuri.
Yuri Kuchinsky in Toronto -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku
It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than
to put out on the troubled seas of thought -=O=- John K. Galbraith |
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| Martin Reboul |
| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:27 pm |
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"Yuri Kuchinsky" <yuku@clio.trends.ca> wrote in message
news:UWghc.470$Yp3.107965566@news.nnrp.ca...
[quote:67363f9721]In sci.archaeology Martin Reboul <martin@spamfukreboul1471.freeserve.co.uk
wrote:
: Yuri "Konspirisy" Kuchinsky wrote...
It's true that from time to time I enjoy making fun of the conspiracy
buffs in these ngs.
[/quote:67363f9721]
That makes two of us!
[quote:67363f9721]For those logically-impaired, opposing conspiracies isn't the same as
embracing them... But I'm afraid this distinction is entirely lost on Mr.
Reboul. Alas!
It seems like Mr. Reboul is only interested in making false accusations
here. He's made the same accusation many times already...
[/quote:67363f9721]
What 'accusation' Yuri? You are *obsessed* with 'conspiracies', you see them
everywhere - every other post of yours is about conspiracies, conspiracists or
conspiracy theories.
You do know that one of your nicknames is 'Yuri Konspiracy' don't you? Not
that I would be so rude as to use it, I prefer the other one.
[quote:67363f9721]Plonk!
[/quote:67363f9721]
What you drink is no concern of mine, but it must be strong stuff.
Cheers
Martin |
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| Philip Deitiker |
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:55 am |
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"Inger E Johansson" <inger_e.johansson@notelia.com> says in
news:jRqhc.90415$dP1.273712@newsc.telia.net:
[quote:f1114fdf85]Doug,
since we do have persons in this group with more knowledge
about the copy, and since Philip managed to send a ref to
an url where at least part of the information quoted by the
author were word by word identical to correct information
re. Verendrye's voyage respectively Verendrye's meeting
with a Swedish scholar discussing the stone's text; I find
it hard to believe that you can be serious if you continue
to ask me to produce ref.
[/quote:f1114fdf85]
Excuse #29 since we do have persons in this group with more
knowledge about the copy, and since Philip managed to send a ref
to an url where at least part of the information quoted by the
author were word by word identical to correct information
re. Verendrye's voyage respectively Verendrye's meeting
with a Swedish scholar discussing the stone's text; I find
it hard to believe that you can be serious if you continue
to ask me to produce ref.
I produced a reference to a site. It does not mean that this is
a scientific site or should be treated as a reference. I was
trying to clear up the information Doug wanted. At limbo still
are the transcriptions or other reproductions of the stone, that
is what needs to be references. If such references are not
present, then bringing the stone up as evidentary information is
not valid. Accordingly the author claimed that the runes were
similar to tartaric runes, the tartars of course come from
eastern asia, and therefore if they had made the runes it would
have come from a western source not an eastern source (relative
to the new world).
[quote:f1114fdf85]Please go to the text in French
where Verendrye's voyage is written down. You will no doubt
find the information you are asking for if you do so.
[/quote:f1114fdf85]
Excuse #30- If you don't, well that's not my problem and I am
not cryptic only tries to tell you as so many times before -
each
scholar has to do his own background check validation reading
and so on. I have told you were to look.
No, it is your problem, if you make claims but fail to support
them, then get out of science groups.
(20 more to go and only 9 days left).
--
Philip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Mol. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNAanthro/
Mol. Evol. Hominids http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/
Evol. of Xchrom.
http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/xlinked.htm
Pal. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paleoanthro/
Sci. Arch. Aux
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sciarchauxilliary/ |
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| Doug Weller |
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:35 am |
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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:07:27 GMT, Inger E Johansson wrote:
[quote:8d1e576fc1]since we do have persons in this group with more knowledge about the copy,
and since Philip managed to send a ref to an url where at least part of the
information quoted by the author were word by word identical to correct
information re. Verendrye's voyage respectively Verendrye's meeting with a
Swedish scholar discussing the stone's text; I find it hard to believe that
you can be serious if you continue to ask me to produce ref.
[/quote:8d1e576fc1]
Philip gave no reference to anything verifying your claim for a copy. Once
again, as with your alleged EU law, your dictionary, etc., you are refusing
to offer information. I want you to substantiate your claim for an extant
copy, nothing else. Since you won't, I assume that as with other such
claims (the EU law, your dictionary), you can't.
[SNIP]
Doug |
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| Inger E Johansson |
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:08 am |
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Doug,
are you a scholar? I thought every scholar knew how to follow the references
presented within refered text written in a reference. It takes time to do
so. I know it's much easier to have other doing the search and validation. I
will not do yours.
Inger E
"Doug Weller" <dweller@ramtops.thisremove.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:pfgth0cf3xpw.105a2pe1okdgi$.dlg@40tude.net...
[quote:86fa14ade5]On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:07:27 GMT, Inger E Johansson wrote:
since we do have persons in this group with more knowledge about the
copy,
and since Philip managed to send a ref to an url where at least part of
the
information quoted by the author were word by word identical to correct
information re. Verendrye's voyage respectively Verendrye's meeting with
a
Swedish scholar discussing the stone's text; I find it hard to believe
that
you can be serious if you continue to ask me to produce ref.
Philip gave no reference to anything verifying your claim for a copy. Once
again, as with your alleged EU law, your dictionary, etc., you are
refusing
to offer information. I want you to substantiate your claim for an extant
copy, nothing else. Since you won't, I assume that as with other such
claims (the EU law, your dictionary), you can't.
[SNIP]
Doug[/quote:86fa14ade5] |
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| Katherine Griffis-Greenbe |
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:13 am |
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Guest
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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:55:34 GMT, Philip Deitiker
<Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> in sci.archaeology, wrote the following:
To Inger:
[quote:5c82894cb7]No, it is your problem, if you make claims but fail to support
them, then get out of science groups.
[/quote:5c82894cb7]
Since Inger fails to give proper references and gives pointers to sites
which don't prove what she says they do, why does she bother to post at
all? It is as if she invites abuse by her actions purposely, and then
complains about it?
Sad.
[quote:5c82894cb7](20 more to go and only 9 days left).
[/quote:5c82894cb7]
So what happens when she reaches 50? I seem to have missed that.
--
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies Doctoral Program [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
http://www.griffis-consulting.com |
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| David Johnson |
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:27 am |
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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg <egylist@deadspamgriffis-consulting.com>
wrote in news:toad801nk8ec57hql06jjdg1inn6e2cbri@4ax.com:
[quote:36e8f43a66]On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:55:34 GMT, Philip Deitiker
Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> in sci.archaeology, wrote the following:
To Inger:
No, it is your problem, if you make claims but fail to support
them, then get out of science groups.
Since Inger fails to give proper references and gives pointers to sites
which don't prove what she says they do, why does she bother to post at
all?
[/quote:36e8f43a66]
I've asked that myself. Guess what? She didn't answer...
David
--
_______________________________________________________________________
David Johnson home.earthlink.net/~trolleyfan
"You're a loony, you are!"
"They said that about Galileo, they said that about Einstein..."
"Yeah, and they said it about a good few loonies, too!" |
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| Inger E Johansson |
| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:46 am |
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Katherine,
I don't fail to give references. On the contrary - I have sent the
references for everything over and over in discussions during the years -
contrary to you I know how to do prover studies: either you look closer into
the references given or you have to accept that you have to wait. I am
neither here to do your homework or to repeat the references over and over
again!
We have discussed the details over the last 7 years. If you haven't been
here that long, your problem not mine.
I suggest that you stopp abusing me and that includes your personal attacks
where you have attacked me over and over in the group. Yes I do have the
right to defend myself and Yes I will not take anything alike the lines
below from you anymore.
Inger E
"Katherine Griffis-Greenberg" <egylist@deadspamgriffis-consulting.com> skrev
i meddelandet news:toad801nk8ec57hql06jjdg1inn6e2cbri@4ax.com...
[quote:1c31c5f3ba]On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:55:34 GMT, Philip Deitiker
Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> in sci.archaeology, wrote the following:
To Inger:
No, it is your problem, if you make claims but fail to support
them, then get out of science groups.
Since Inger fails to give proper references and gives pointers to sites
which don't prove what she says they do, why does she bother to post at
all? It is as if she invites abuse by her actions purposely, and then
complains about it?
Sad.
(20 more to go and only 9 days left).
So what happens when she reaches 50? I seem to have missed that.
--
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies Doctoral Program [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
http://www.griffis-consulting.com[/quote:1c31c5f3ba] |
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