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Science Forum Index » Materials Forum » tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively harmless
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| Archimedes Plutonium |
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:47 am |
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Subject:
tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively harmless
Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:05:39 -0500
From:
Archimedes Plutonium <a_plutonium@dtgnet.com>
Reply-To:
NOdtgEMAIL
Organization:
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
Newsgroups:
sci.materials, sci.environment
Last I heard of fiberglass as a potential carcinogen was that Germany
researchers and Europe was implicating fiberglass as a carcinogen but
that the results were preliminary.
I am going to offer a sort of commonsense approach to the question of
whether fiberglass is a carcinogen or not. I suppose anything in
overexcess or overquantity is harmful. But the fact is that fiberglass
is silica which is that of "sand" and humans have been in close contact
with sand in the environment for as old as human species itself.
So the commonsense argument would be that if fiberglass is carcinogenic
is almost tantamount to saying that people who live where sand dust is
blown around is a carcinogenic environment.
The body has means of getting rid of sand, unlike asbestos that once
inside the body is almost impossible to get it out. And sand does not
cut up the cells unlike the sharp fibers of asbestos.
The commonsense argument in favor of fiberglass is that lungs have
evolved for 10s or even 100s of millions of years to deal with sand
intake into the body and since fiberglass is a form of sand, then it
should be relatively harmless.
Archimedes Plutonium, a_plutonium@hotmail.com
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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| Terry Harper |
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:47 am |
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309262347.62f9d3d9@posting.google.com...
Quote:
Last I heard of fiberglass as a potential carcinogen was that Germany
researchers and Europe was implicating fiberglass as a carcinogen but
that the results were preliminary.
Any fibrous material that enters the lungs is bad for them. Cotton, wool,
inorganic fibres, all have deleterious effects. These are not necessarily
carcinogenic.
The German approach was to formulate insulation glass fibres so that they
dissolved in the pulmonary fluids, rather than remain as fibrous bodies. The
specification was known as KI-40.
--
Terry Harper
http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
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| Frank Logullo |
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 5:46 am |
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309262347.62f9d3d9@posting.google.com...
Quote: Subject:
tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively harmless
IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer, I believe) had declared
fiberglass wool a 2 B carcinogen but backed down to class 3. OSHA still
requires warning but is non-specific. Any inhaled material that is not
expelled or dissolves in lungs can be harmfull.
Frank |
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| Frank Logullo |
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:44 am |
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"Frank Logullo" <frankPERIODlogullo@dol.net> wrote in message
news:QMedb.2541$if4.1963646@newshog.newsread.com...
Quote:
"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309262347.62f9d3d9@posting.google.com...
Subject:
tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively harmless
IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer, I believe) had declared
fiberglass wool a 2 B carcinogen but backed down to class 3. OSHA still
requires warning but is non-specific. Any inhaled material that is not
expelled or dissolves in lungs can be harmfull.
Frank
Further NTP (National Toxicology Program) has listed. Unfortunately their
site is tought to search an Googling leads to secondary sources. Use of cas
number is not specific enough either.
Frank |
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| Archimedes Plutonium |
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:45 am |
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Subject:
Re: tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively
harmless
Date:
Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:13:02 -0500
From:
Archimedes Plutonium <a_plutonium@dtgnet.com>
Reply-To:
NOdtgEMAIL
Organization:
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of
the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
Newsgroups:
sci.materials, sci.environment
Terry Harper wrote:
Quote: "Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309262347.62f9d3d9@posting.google.com...
Last I heard of fiberglass as a potential carcinogen was that Germany
researchers and Europe was implicating fiberglass as a carcinogen but
that the results were preliminary.
Any fibrous material that enters the lungs is bad for them. Cotton, wool,
inorganic fibres, all have deleterious effects. These are not necessarily
carcinogenic.
The German approach was to formulate insulation glass fibres so that they
dissolved in the pulmonary fluids, rather than remain as fibrous bodies. The
specification was known as KI-40.
--
Terry Harper
Appreciate the information as I did not know that the Germans were
formulating
a better fiberglass.
But I think the claim -- "Any fibrous material that enters the lungs
is bad for
them" needs science research for an answer. Because, what is the
difference
between having gone through a Middle East sand storm and having
crawled through
a attic without respirator. We cannot just say-- all fibers are bad
when
breathed.
There has to be some science rationale as to why a long object of
silicon is
worse than a grain of silicon. If the rationale was that whenever long
objects
that are longer than a white blood cell can tackle makes sense.
But to just say-- all fibers are bad is not scientific unless some
rationale is
given
and it is tested and shown to be the case.
Just opening up some toilet paper emits alot of fibrous wood products.
And why
should millions of people who endure sand storms not come down with
lung
cancer?
Why is objects of long length in the lungs more dangerous than
roundish objects
or flat plate like objects or other geometrics. Some rationale has to
be given
and tested and shown to be the case.
Archimedes Plutonium, a_plutonium@hotmail.com
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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| Archimedes Plutonium |
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:51 am |
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Subject:
Re: tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively
harmless
Date:
Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:18:12 -0500
From:
Archimedes Plutonium <a_plutonium@dtgnet.com>
Reply-To:
NOdtgEMAIL
Organization:
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of
the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
Newsgroups:
sci.materials, sci.environment
Frank Logullo wrote:
Quote: "Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309262347.62f9d3d9@posting.google.com...
Subject:
tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively harmless
IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer, I believe) had declared
fiberglass wool a 2 B carcinogen but backed down to class 3. OSHA still
requires warning but is non-specific. Any inhaled material that is not
expelled or dissolves in lungs can be harmfull.
Frank
Frank, is there any data on the frequency of lung cancer in places
where
there is alot of windstorms blowing alot of dirt, dust and sand
around? I
remember seeing an Iraq windstorm as the troops marched on Baghdad.
Whether lung cancer has higher frequency in those places over other
places.
Archimedes Plutonium, a_plutonium@hotmail.com
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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| Frank Logullo |
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:39 am |
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309280851.7574ee99@posting.google.com...
Quote: Subject:
Re: tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively
harmless
Date:
Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:18:12 -0500
From:
Archimedes Plutonium <a_plutonium@dtgnet.com
Reply-To:
NOdtgEMAIL
Organization:
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of
the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
Newsgroups:
sci.materials, sci.environment
Frank Logullo wrote:
"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309262347.62f9d3d9@posting.google.com...
Subject:
tentative-proof that Fiberglass is relatively harmless
IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer, I believe) had
declared
fiberglass wool a 2 B carcinogen but backed down to class 3. OSHA still
requires warning but is non-specific. Any inhaled material that is not
expelled or dissolves in lungs can be harmfull.
Frank
Frank, is there any data on the frequency of lung cancer in places
where
there is alot of windstorms blowing alot of dirt, dust and sand
around? I
remember seeing an Iraq windstorm as the troops marched on Baghdad.
Whether lung cancer has higher frequency in those places over other
places.
There is a lot of stuff out there. Here's a first Google hit:
http://annhyg.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/45/3/193
Frank |
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| Archimedes Plutonium |
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:31 am |
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"Frank Logullo" <frankPERIODlogullo@dol.net> wrote in message news:<xRUdb.2638$if4.2042328@newshog.newsread.com>...
(snipped what I wrote)
I don't think that report is sound in that the smokers were amoung the
statistics.
I am not saying that an environment of silicon dust or fibers is
nonharmful.
I am saying that the millions of years of evolution of the human lung
is able to cope in a sand-silica dust storms.
I was asking for a report as to whether geography of sand dust storm
regions of the Earth have a higher rate of Lung cancer than does other
regions. I was not asking for a report on people in an artificial
environment of purified silica.
Too much of anything in purity maybe cancerous. Maybe if one breathes
high purity oxygen is likely to come down with lung cancer. Anyone
done a test on whether lung cancer is initiated by breathing pure
oxygen?
Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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| Frank Logullo |
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:15 am |
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309292331.6dd8e84b@posting.google.com...
Quote: "Frank Logullo" <frankPERIODlogullo@dol.net> wrote in message
news:<xRUdb.2638$if4.2042328@newshog.newsread.com>...
(snipped what I wrote)
There is a lot of stuff out there. Here's a first Google hit:
http://annhyg.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/45/3/193
Frank
I don't think that report is sound in that the smokers were amoung the
statistics.
I am not saying that an environment of silicon dust or fibers is
nonharmful.
I am saying that the millions of years of evolution of the human lung
is able to cope in a sand-silica dust storms.
I was asking for a report as to whether geography of sand dust storm
regions of the Earth have a higher rate of Lung cancer than does other
regions. I was not asking for a report on people in an artificial
environment of purified silica.
I think you missed my point. There is a lot of data out there and it is up
to you to find it.
Frank |
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| Terry Harper |
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:21 am |
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309280845.5ce1be7d@posting.google.com...
Quote:
But I think the claim -- "Any fibrous material that enters the lungs
is bad for
them" needs science research for an answer.
There has been medical research for at least a century on the effects of
fibrous materials on the lungs, be that material cotton or an inorganic like
asbestos or very fine glass fibres. If you want to do scientific research,
why not read up the literature on what has been done already before you
start hares running?
--
Terry Harper
http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
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| Gordon Couger |
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:24 pm |
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"Terry Harper" <Terry.Harper@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:blndk2$60a$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
Quote: "Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309280845.5ce1be7d@posting.google.com...
But I think the claim -- "Any fibrous material that enters the lungs
is bad for
them" needs science research for an answer.
There has been medical research for at least a century on the effects of
fibrous materials on the lungs, be that material cotton or an inorganic
like
asbestos or very fine glass fibres. If you want to do scientific research,
why not read up the literature on what has been done already before you
start hares running?
All AP can run is his mouth and he hasn't read the operator's manual for
that.
Gordon |
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| Frank Logullo |
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:33 pm |
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"Gordon Couger" <gcouger@NOSPAMprovalue.net> wrote in message
news:pUGfb.346$%o6.217@news1.central.cox.net...
Quote:
"Terry Harper" <Terry.Harper@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:blndk2$60a$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
"Archimedes Plutonium" <a_plutonium@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0309280845.5ce1be7d@posting.google.com...
But I think the claim -- "Any fibrous material that enters the lungs
is bad for
them" needs science research for an answer.
There has been medical research for at least a century on the effects of
fibrous materials on the lungs, be that material cotton or an inorganic
like
asbestos or very fine glass fibres. If you want to do scientific
research,
why not read up the literature on what has been done already before you
start hares running?
All AP can run is his mouth and he hasn't read the operator's manual for
that.
That's a good way to put it! Archie is somewhat naive but he does help keep
ng's juices flowing
Frank |
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