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Sir Frederick
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:05 am
Guest
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070614082046.htm

Pendulum Links Virtual Reality To Real System
Source: American Physical Society
Date: June 18, 2007

Science Daily — What's nerdier than creating an online avatar that fights dragons and raids strongholds? Creating a virtual pendulum
that you can sync up to your real-life pendulum. Leave it to physicists to do just that, resulting in a mixed reality state in which
the two pendulums swing as one.

Vadas Gintautas and Alfred Habler of the Center for Complex Systems Research at the University of Illinios are the first to create a
linked virtual/real system. They achieved the feat by connecting a real world pendulum with a virtual version that moved under
time-tested equations of motion. To get the two pendulums to communicate, the physicists fed data about the real pendulum to the
virtual one, and transferred information from the virtual pendulum to a motor that influenced the motion of the real pendulum.

The real and virtual pendulums swung at different rates when they were first introduced. After a brief encounter in a dual reality
state, they simply couldn't connect. Friction quickly brought them to a halt. Recognizing that these two pendulums needed to have
more in common, the physicists adjusted their swing frequencies until they were more or less on the same wavelength. Upon the next
meeting, two pendulums could not help but move in mixed reality unison indefinitely, defying the friction forces that had ended
their previous inter-reality relationship.

Believe it or not, their findings may prove useful. Mixed reality can occur only when the two systems are sufficiently similar. A
system with unknown parameters may be synced up to a virtual system whose parameters are set by the physicists. The unknown factors
in the real system can be determined by changing the virtual system until they shift from dual reality to mixed reality. Then, the
physicists will have good estimates for the values of the unknown parameters.

What's more, it may help explore existing intersections between virtual realities and the material world. Popular online games such
as World of Warcraft incorporate virtual economies in which players can buy, sell, and own property within the game. In the Warcraft
economy, avatars deal in virtual gold, but the real players can buy it with real US dollars. Gintautas and Habler are curious about
the possibility of mixed realities emerging from these coupled economies.

Published in Physical Review E 75.
--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
mmcneill@fuzzysys.com
http://www.fuzzysys.com
http://members.cox.net/fmmcneill
**************************************
"Age is a very high price to pay for maturity."
- Tom Stoppard
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
The second best time is now." - Old Proverb
**************************************
Don Stockbauer
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:44 am
Guest
On Jun 19, 12:05 am, Sir Frederick <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Quote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070614082046.htm

Pendulum Links Virtual Reality To Real System
Source: American Physical Society
Date: June 18, 2007

Science Daily - What's nerdier than creating an online avatar that fights dragons and raids strongholds? Creating a virtual pendulum
that you can sync up to your real-life pendulum. Leave it to physicists to do just that, resulting in a mixed reality state in which
the two pendulums swing as one.

Vadas Gintautas and Alfred Habler of the Center for Complex Systems Research at the University of Illinios are the first to create a
linked virtual/real system. They achieved the feat by connecting a real world pendulum with a virtual version that moved under
time-tested equations of motion. To get the two pendulums to communicate, the physicists fed data about the real pendulum to the
virtual one, and transferred information from the virtual pendulum to a motor that influenced the motion of the real pendulum.

The real and virtual pendulums swung at different rates when they were first introduced. After a brief encounter in a dual reality
state, they simply couldn't connect. Friction quickly brought them to a halt. Recognizing that these two pendulums needed to have
more in common, the physicists adjusted their swing frequencies until they were more or less on the same wavelength. Upon the next
meeting, two pendulums could not help but move in mixed reality unison indefinitely, defying the friction forces that had ended
their previous inter-reality relationship.

Believe it or not, their findings may prove useful. Mixed reality can occur only when the two systems are sufficiently similar. A
system with unknown parameters may be synced up to a virtual system whose parameters are set by the physicists. The unknown factors
in the real system can be determined by changing the virtual system until they shift from dual reality to mixed reality. Then, the
physicists will have good estimates for the values of the unknown parameters.

What's more, it may help explore existing intersections between virtual realities and the material world. Popular online games such
as World of Warcraft incorporate virtual economies in which players can buy, sell, and own property within the game. In the Warcraft
economy, avatars deal in virtual gold, but the real players can buy it with real US dollars. Gintautas and Habler are curious about
the possibility of mixed realities emerging from these coupled economies.

Published in Physical Review E 75.
--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
mmcne...@fuzzysys.comhttp://www.fuzzysys.comhttp://members.cox.net/fmmcneill
**************************************
"Age is a very high price to pay for maturity."
- Tom Stoppard
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
The second best time is now." - Old Proverb
**************************************

What fools these mortals be.
ABC
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:11 pm
Guest
Yes, if people believe that a computer-generated virtual reality can
*know itself* as phenomenal properties, then such is part of the
brain's neural activity in itself: being a microcosm and subject.
ABC
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:16 pm
Guest
Yes, if people believe that a computer-generated virtual reality can
*know itself* as phenomenal properties, then such is part of the
brain's neural activity in itself: being a microcosm and subject.
Sir Frederick
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:30 pm
Guest
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:11:20 -0700, ABC <radius@inmail24.com> wrote:

Quote:
Yes, if people believe that a computer-generated virtual reality can
*know itself* as phenomenal properties, then such is part of the
brain's neural activity in itself: being a microcosm and subject.
"Believing" has nothing to do with it.

"Believing" does influence our stories, but then our stories are
functional BS.
ABC
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:03 pm
Guest
Sir Frederick wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:11:20 -0700, ABC <radius@inmail24.com> wrote:

Yes, if people believe that a computer-generated virtual reality can
*know itself* as phenomenal properties, then such is part of the
brain's neural activity in itself: being a microcosm and subject.
"Believing" has nothing to do with it.
"Believing" does influence our stories, but then our stories are
functional BS.

But believing has everything to do with it. If people don't believe
that a virtual reality in (the cyber sense) can ever know itself or
contain an agent program that subjectively knows it (at least roughly
the way a human user views it on the monitor), then there's no reason
for the analogy of *consciousness* being a biotic version of an
electronically produced VR appearing in the first place.
Sir Frederick
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:34 pm
Guest
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:03:23 -0700, ABC <radius@inmail24.com> wrote:

Quote:
Sir Frederick wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:11:20 -0700, ABC <radius@inmail24.com> wrote:

Yes, if people believe that a computer-generated virtual reality can
*know itself* as phenomenal properties, then such is part of the
brain's neural activity in itself: being a microcosm and subject.
"Believing" has nothing to do with it.
"Believing" does influence our stories, but then our stories are
functional BS.

But believing has everything to do with it. If people don't believe
that a virtual reality in (the cyber sense) can ever know itself or
contain an agent program that subjectively knows it (at least roughly
the way a human user views it on the monitor), then there's no reason
for the analogy of *consciousness* being a biotic version of an
electronically produced VR appearing in the first place.

True. It is just that I have read too many books that point out that
"believing" is a false folk theory on certain brain functions.
Whenever I see the word I do a knee jerk thing of criticality.
Sorry.
tooly
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:34 pm
Guest
"ABC" <radius@inmail24.com> wrote in message
news:1182280608.222096.159610@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Yes, if people believe that a computer-generated virtual reality can
*know itself* as phenomenal properties, then such is part of the
brain's neural activity in itself: being a microcosm and subject.


It was once described to me, there demarked areas of consciousness during a
lifetime, in stages of experience.

First there is the visionary stage, which entails dreaming and planning
Second is the action stage where one is in the actual motion of
accomplishing the plan.
Finally, there is the memory stage where one savors the...well, the memory.

Each entails unique experience.

This loose demarcation can be applied specific life experience or to the
general life span itself I think, and perhaps in an even larger application
in abstraction to the understanding of sentient being?

I was thinking of an example, when I was a kid, we'd strive toward the
championship in the local little league [whatever sport, doesn't matter].
Years, later, I wonder why it seemed so important to us at the time. Now of
course, it only a memory. And we savor our memories of course. But we had
to be pretty innocent and rather 'dumb' to see any importance in such a
struggle. As they say, there's a billion Chinese who could care less, hehe.

There's a topic in this...just don't have time right now...
 
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