Had Germany won the war

Space satations, satellites, and space weaponry
were all German concepts adopted by the postwar Superpowers.

You may wish to diminish the human suffering under the Nazis by
calling it "Holocaust crap" but it did happen. More concentration camp
inmates died building V-2 than were people ever killed on the receiving
end of V-2 launches.

What are the numbers Dan? Give me a cite. Prove it.

Dachau never did "space medicine," they did inhumane experiments on
unwilling participants. These experiments did involve high altitudes,
but that's as close as they got.

What do you think the space medicine technology came from? Those same
Dachau human tolerance experiments and high-altitude research. It also
directly influenced the design of the spacesuits.

Neither Saturn 1B nor Saturn 5 were exclusively SS Major von Braun's
design even if he was the lead engineer. The moon shots still would have
happened if that bastard had never been born.

Dream on. Goddard didn't come anywhere near the V-2 nor the visions
Oberth, Noordung, and Von Braun of conquering space from the 1920s
forward.

Yes, the Nazi rocket programme at Peenemunde existed before NASA was
formed, but so what? NACA existed before the Nazi rocket programme and
NACA turned into NASA post war.

NACA wasn't shit until they got all the German documents from WW2 AND
their scientist, technicians, specialists, and doctors.

"Space stations, satellites and space weapons" were not exclusively
German concepts. Science fiction written by non Germans going back
before WW1 covered the subject.

Sci-fi is one thing, hardware another. Germany had the missiles and by
1946 the Allies would have faced the A-9/A-10 ICBM plus the Sanger
spacecraft. Military satellites and space stations were also on the
list.

Trust me, your Nazi heroes aren't the genesis of all things good or
bad. It wasn't Hitler or the Nazis that rebuilt Germany during the
1930s, it was hardworking ordinary citizens. The only contribution to
the economy the Nazis made was with the seizure of Jewish assets.
Nazism, in and of itself, is all destructive. There is no plus side,
aren't, it's time for you to stop deluding yourself.

Take a look at Germany in 1933 when Hitler was elected and then in
1939- just 6 years later... from defeated ruined nation to the
greatest nation on earth.

Hitler and the Nazis eliminated unemployment,

built the great autobahns,

introduced the KDF Wagen (VW Beatle),

and created the Hitler Youth and BDM.

Everyone was responsible for national unity which is the heart of national
socialism and it DID work.

Germany was transformed and the world awed by it.

Rearmamanet is even more amazing. It only took 4 years to go
from playing with wooden cars that simulated tanks and old biplanes to
the Me Bf 109 and Blitzkrieg with the world's strongest army, air
force, and a naval threat of warships and U-Boats.

You are the deluded one who remains historically ignorant.

The seizure of Jewish assets made the Reich great? You must be joking
or have eaten some bad pork. I suggest you start eating at a Kosher
deli starting with a nice pastrami on Jewish rye and a hot bowl of
chicken noodle soup

Everything I said about Germany between 1933-39 and on re-armament
from 1935-39 is a fact. That doesn't make me a Nazi. If so, every
historian and student of history would be a Nazi.

As for my "Jewish commentary"... you pushed my buttons and I know
which of yours to push.

Tankfixer wrote:
Sci-fi is one thing, hardware another. Germany had the missiles and by
1946 the Allies would have faced the A-9/A-10 ICBM plus the Sanger
spacecraft. Military satellites and space stations were also on the
list.


In August of 1945 Berlin would have dissapeard in a mushroom cloud
instead of Hiroshima.


They'd have been lucky to get the Antipodal Bomber flying by 1956, much
less 1946.
After the war the Soviets got the design, and they figured out that the
whole thing was crap as far as the way Sanger had designed it.
I read the translation of his wartime work on it:
http://www.astronautix.com/data/saenger.pdf
He has a rocket engine on it that is over100% efficient at turning
propellants into energy; pretty neat trick, that. :-D


Pat

Tankfixer wrote:
Sci-fi is one thing, hardware another. Germany had the missiles and by
1946 the Allies would have faced the A-9/A-10 ICBM plus the Sanger
spacecraft. Military satellites and space stations were also on the
list.


In August of 1945 Berlin would have dissapeard in a mushroom cloud
instead of Hiroshima.


They'd have been lucky to get the Antipodal Bomber flying by 1956, much
less 1946.
After the war the Soviets got the design, and they figured out that the
whole thing was crap as far as the way Sanger had designed it.
I read the translation of his wartime work on it:
http://www.astronautix.com/data/saenger.pdf
He has a rocket engine on it that is over100% efficient at turning
propellants into energy; pretty neat trick, that.

Tankfixer wrote:
BS,
German tanks of 1939 were no better than any other nations.
Worse in many respects


When asked if they could build a direct copy of the T-34, the German
arms industry had to answer "no".
They couldn't make turret components that large, and they couldn't make
a lightweight aluminum-blocked motor.

In article <137s8ffcotga...@corp.supernews.com>, flan...@daktel.com
mumbled



Tankfixer wrote:
BS,
German tanks of 1939 were no better than any other nations.
Worse in many respects

When asked if they could build a direct copy of the T-34, the German
arms industry had to answer "no".
They couldn't make turret components that large, and they couldn't make
a lightweight aluminum-blocked motor.

Some of that is the usual, "someone else invented it so it's no good".
All countries suffer from it to some extent.

I suspect the reason the said the engine wasn't possible was because
they already had shortages of alluminum required for the aircraft
industry. < aviation content ;')

IMHO the tank the German's designed as a counter was the one they should
have concentrated on perfecting and producing, the Panther.

Solve the tranmission problems and you had a very capabile tank that
could handle anything the Western Allies moving to production.

They had a good chassie to continue in production in the Pzk IV.
It made a very good chassie for all the various SP guns.
But the Pzk IV was getting to the point of being overloaded.

One of the failings of German war production was they;
1) didn't move to full production until around 1942 or so.
2) had far too many various competing designs for tanks and aircraft,
this siphoned talent away from perfecting flaws in existing designs
3) pursued fanciful ideas that couldn't produce workable weapons in the
time frame they were going to have available.

It was painfully obvious that by Christmas 1942 that the noose was
beginning to tighten.

By Christmas the following year rational people could see the Nazi's
would be defeated.

Too bad those who tried a solution failed and another two years of death
ensued.

--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."

If fantastic designs are required to keep one from being shipped to the
Eastern Front then fantastic designs it is !

That's exactly my take on the situation.

IMHO the tank the German's designed as a counter was the one they should
have concentrated on perfecting and producing, the Panther.

Sci-fi is one thing, hardware another. Germany had the missiles and by
1946 the Allies would have faced the A-9/A-10 ICBM plus the Sanger
spacecraft. Military satellites and space stations were also on the
list.


In August of 1945 Berlin would have dissapeard in a mushroom cloud
instead of Hiroshima.

On Jun 24, 9:59?am, Tankfixer <paul.carr...@us.army.m> wrote:
In article <137s8ffcotga...@corp.supernews.com>, flan...@daktel.com
mumbled



Tankfixer wrote:
BS,
German tanks of 1939 were no better than any other nations.
Worse in many respects

When asked if they could build a direct copy of the T-34, the German
arms industry had to answer "no".
They couldn't make turret components that large, and they couldn't make
a lightweight aluminum-blocked motor.

Some of that is the usual, "someone else invented it so it's no good".
All countries suffer from it to some extent.

I suspect the reason the said the engine wasn't possible was because
they already had shortages of alluminum required for the aircraft
industry. < aviation content ;')

IMHO the tank the German's designed as a counter was the one they should
have concentrated on perfecting and producing, the Panther.

Solve the tranmission problems and you had a very capabile tank that
could handle anything the Western Allies moving to production.

They had a good chassie to continue in production in the Pzk IV.
It made a very good chassie for all the various SP guns.
But the Pzk IV was getting to the point of being overloaded.

One of the failings of German war production was they;
1) didn't move to full production until around 1942 or so.
2) had far too many various competing designs for tanks and aircraft,
this siphoned talent away from perfecting flaws in existing designs
3) pursued fanciful ideas that couldn't produce workable weapons in the
time frame they were going to have available.

It was painfully obvious that by Christmas 1942 that the noose was
beginning to tighten.

By Christmas the following year rational people could see the Nazi's
would be defeated.

Too bad those who tried a solution failed and another two years of death
ensued.


First of all, the requirements were in place long before the T-34
appeared and in the end the Panther was superior to it.

Second, the Germans could have gone with the PzKpfw VII Lowe instead
of wasting valuable resources and manhours on the ultra-heavy Maus and
E-100 rival.

Lowe:
http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/PANZERKAMPFWAGEN%20VII%20LOWE.htm

BS,
German tanks of 1939 were no better than any other nations.
Worse in many respects

I seem to remember pre-1941 and the Germans sharing tanks with teh
Soviets.
And the Soviets not believing that what was being shared by the Germans
as being the best they had in service.
This is because the Germans showed PzkII and II and the Soviets already
had T-34 entering service.

Was the Pzk V better than the T-34-85 ?
Perhaps.
But can you build enough to equip your army with even the Pzk V ?

The Germans were forced to impress Czech and French tanks into service.
And even then they were so short of real tanks they had to substitute
"assault gun" BN in some units to have any armor at all.

All of those projects were a waste of resources and men.

He has a rocket engine on it that is over100% efficient at turning
propellants into energy; pretty neat trick, that. :-D


Pat

Well, you start out with near empty fuel tanks......