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Science Forum Index » Medicine - Vision Forum » The Correct Answers
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| Ms.Brainy |
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:05 pm |
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On Jun 5, 8:54 pm, "Ms.Brainy" <mikabra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Otis My Dear,
I have never been rude to you like others. I never called you names.
I was always respectful and sweet like honey, but now you are leaving
me no choice. I must say it : YOU ARE DENSE, VERY DENSE!
I did NOT ask you those endless questions -- I ANSWERED them on your
behalf, because you would not do it yourself!
Actually I always made sure that my sarcasm remained so subtle that
despite the fact that everybody else could see it as sarcasm -- you
wouldn't. This is because I am kind and sweet by nature. Is this how
you thank me? Is this your second opinion?
I was thinking of answering for you Neil Brooks' questions as well,
but now, realizing that you do not appreciate my effort to do the hard
work that you would not do yourself, I am not so sure you deserve my
help.
BTW Otis, Do you think that the plus can help my bad eye (currently
20/400, after a macular hole, retinal detachment and presently very
thick pre-surgery cataract)? Should I seek a second opinion? Would
you say that my eye is still a dynamic fundamental eye?
Best,
Brainy- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You know what Otis? I think your brain has a refractive error. |
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| Nicolaas Hawkins |
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:53 pm |
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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 04:05:49 -0000, "Ms.Brainy" <mikabrainy@gmail.com>
wrote in <news:1181102749.961682.259780@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
Quote:
You know what Otis? I think your brain has a refractive error.
More like a fracture error
--
Nicolaas.
2007 Pricelessware CD now available. 600Mb of the best of the best in
Freeware. E-Mail me for details.
.... Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window. |
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| William Horatio Bates |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:15 am |
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"can help my bad eye (currently 20/400, after a macular hole, retinal
detachment and presently very thick pre-surgery cataract)? Should I
seek a second opinion?"
I have cured many relatives and friends under such conditions.
Nature is always willing to forgive the harm you have self inflicted
on your eyes. The mercy of Allah is without limits. |
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| Itachi |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:21 am |
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"can help my bad eye (currently 20/400, after a macular hole, retinal
detachment and presently very thick pre-surgery cataract)? Should I
seek a second opinion?"
Indeed, it is possible to cure a person in your current state.
Laugh at me, ridicule me, but at the end of the day, who is blind? |
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| otisbrown@pa.net |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:22 pm |
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Dear Brainy,
Subject: Insulting me -- by "signing" my name to a statement
that I did not make -- and do not support.
If you wish to post YOUR hypothetical remarks to P.Clar, then
sign YOUR NAME! If you had done THAT I would have
not responded:
Brainy> P.Clar, I hope you are satisfied and please stop bugging me
with more
questions. I have needy patients to take care of and have no time
for
you and the rest of your established crowd. Now I must go wash my
hands because I discovered that germs can cause myopia in monkeys and
the establishment doesn't believe me, but you'll see that eventually
I
shall prevail.
Brainy> Best,
Brainy> Otis, Engineer
Had you signed it this way,
Brainy (as I THINK Otis would have signed it),
then that would have been honest.
But while we are at it -- I think you do not understand
Raphaelson's remarks about the "Printer's Son".
The minus lens works like gang-busters. It is effective,
produces very clear vision in 5 minutes, and perhaps
you, and everyone else LOVE that minus lens -- and
would only want to be treated in the superfical way
that Raphaelson HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO DO.
I only SUGGEST that a wise parent might want
something more intelligent.
But the response so far has indeed been
of the superfical mind.
If you wish to shoot your self in the
foot with an over-prescribed minus
for your self and your children -- the
do so. It is no skin off my nose.
Otis
On Jun 5, 11:54 pm, "Ms.Brainy" <mikabra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Jun 5, 8:13 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
Dear Brainy,
Subject: Graphics of Dr. Raphaelson's thesis
Since you do not understand the "words" describing
the natural eye's behavior, when you place
a strong minus lens on it -- perhaps Soon's
"graphics" of stair-case myopia will improve
your comprehension of this issue. See:
http://www.geocities.com/soonicansee/
But there is no help for your intellectual blindness,
even with your title of "Brainy".
Please enjoy this pleasant discussion of science,
scientific proof, and alternatives (before the minus)
like Bates, Plus, Raphaelson, and public ignorance.
Enjoy,
Otis
Otis My Dear,
I have never been rude to you like others. I never called you names.
I was always respectful and sweet like honey, but now you are leaving
me no choice. I must say it : YOU ARE DENSE, VERY DENSE!
I did NOT ask you those endless questions -- I ANSWERED them on your
behalf, because you would not do it yourself!
Actually I always made sure that my sarcasm remained so subtle that
despite the fact that everybody else could see it as sarcasm -- you
wouldn't. This is because I am kind and sweet by nature. Is this how
you thank me? Is this your second opinion?
I was thinking of answering for you Neil Brooks' questions as well,
but now, realizing that you do not appreciate my effort to do the hard
work that you would not do yourself, I am not so sure you deserve my
help.
BTW Otis, Do you think that the plus can help my bad eye (currently
20/400, after a macular hole, retinal detachment and presently very
thick pre-surgery cataract)? Should I seek a second opinion? Would
you say that my eye is still a dynamic fundamental eye?
Best,
Brainy- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| Neil Brooks |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:26 pm |
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Guest
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On Jun 6, 10:22 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
Quote: If you wish to post YOUR hypothetical remarks to P.Clar, then
sign YOUR NAME! If you had done THAT I would have
not responded:
Since you seem to be in the responding mood, how about taking a turn
at these relevant questions:
http://www.nbeener.com/NDB_OSB_Qs.txt
Quote: then that would have been honest.
What would you know about honesty?? You can't get through a single
POST without a bald-faced lie.
Quote: But while we are at it -- I think you do not understand
Raphaelson's remarks about the "Printer's Son".
Nobody does. |
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| Mike Tyner |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:06 pm |
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Guest
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<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote
Quote: But the response so far has indeed been
of the superfical mind.
Our superficial minds want to see a t-test of your "prevention" technique.
Once you get around to publishing that, I'm sure all the ophthalmologists
will stop prescribing minus.
-MT |
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| Ms.Brainy |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:46 pm |
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Guest
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On Jun 6, 10:22 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
Quote: Dear Brainy,
Subject: Insulting me -- by "signing" my name to a statement
that I did not make -- and do not support.
If you wish to post YOUR hypothetical remarks to P.Clar, then
sign YOUR NAME! If you had done THAT I would have
not responded:
Otis,
You continue to provide support to the claim of severe refractive
error in your brain.
I DID send the message under my name. I made it clear that I was the
writer, not you. Everybody but you understood it. Everybody knew it
was a joke, but not you.
Did I not provide the CORRECT answers (on your behalf) to P.Clar's
questions? Did you not have the chance to answer his questions, which
you chose to ignore?
As Neil said, actions (or non-actions) have consequences. Don't be
surprised if people ridicule you when you choose to evade any sincere
inquiry and paste again and again the same old crap that is hardly
ever a true response to the questions asked.
I did not invent the answers. I only re-used your own stuff.
My advice, Otis, is that you apply this plus remedy to your brain
refractive error. This is my second or third opinion. When you do
that, perhaps you can also get some sense of humor as a bonus. |
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| otisbrown@pa.net |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:16 pm |
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Sure, Mike, here are the t-tests you requested.
I assume you mean student's "t" for small samples,
and "z" for large sample Gaussian distributions.
Dr. Francis Young spent a lot if time collecting
these facts concerning the dynamic behavior
of the fundamental eye.
But you never understand that at all.
Ya get my drift, partner?
Otis
++++++++
[The reference studies for the primates and Eskimos are at
the end of this page. **]
FIRST-YEAR HONG KONG UNIVERSITY STUDENTS 87.5 % MYOPIC
o Goh and Lam (Goh, W.S. and Lam, C.S., "Changes in refractive
trends and optical components of Hong Kong Chinese aged 19-39
years," Ophthal. Physiol. Opt., 14:378-382, 1994) found that
in 2000 first-year students at the University of Hong Kong,
the prevalence of myopia was 87.5%.
******************
MYOPIA PREVALENCE IS ALWAYS HIGHER THAN 92 PERCENT
FOR TAIWAN MEDICAL STUDENTS
o Lin et al (Lin, L.K., Shih, Y.F., Lee, Y.C., Hung, P.T., and
Hou, P.K., " Changes in ocular refraction and its components
among medical students - a 5-year longitudinal study", Optom.
Vis. Sci., 73:495-498, 1996) found that in a study of 345
National Taiwan University medical students, the myopia
prevalence increased from 92.8% to 95.8% over the five year
period.
******************
OPTOMETRY STUDENTS 72 PERCENT MYOPIC
o Lam and Yap (Lam, C.S. and Yap, M. "Ocular dimensions and
refraction in Chinese Orientals", Proc. Int. Soc. Eye Res.,
6:121, 1990) found that in a group of optometry students at
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, the prevalence of myopia
was 75% in females and 69% in males.
******************
70 PERCENT MYOPIC AT AGES 16 TO 17 YEARS OLD
o Regarding the prevalence of myopia in Asian countries, Lam and
Goh (Lam, C.S. and Goh, W.S., "The incidence of refractive
errors among schoolchildren in Hong Kong in relationship with
the optical components", Clin. Exp. Optom., 74:97-103, 1991)
found that in 383 school children from ages 6 to 17 years, the
prevalence of myopia increased from 30% at ages 6-7 years, to
70% at ages 16-17 years.
******************
December 6, 2000
By Liu Shao-hua
Staff reporter
Taipei Times
Subject: Myopia Increases Among Children
One of every five children in the first grade in Taiwan's
elementary schools is myopic (nearsighted). The proportion of
myopics in this group has increased from 12.1 percent in 1995 to
20.4 percent this year, according to the results of a survey
released by the Department of Health yesterday.
The results also show that 60.7 percent of sixth graders in
elementary schools, 80.7 percent of third graders in junior high
schools, and 84.2 percent of third graders in senior high schools
suffer from myopia. In addition, the number of seriously myopic
children is also on the rise. The proportion of seriously myopic
children among sixth graders in elementary schools has increased
from 2 percent five years ago to 2.4 percent this year.
Serious myopia is defined as exceeding 600 degrees (6
diopters). Anything over 25 degrees (0.25 diopters) is myopia.
Normal eyesight is zero degrees.
"We appeal for reductions to children's work load in schools
and the amelioration of visual environments in daily life," said
Chen Tzay-jinn, director-general of the health promotion bureau,
under the health department.
The survey was conducted by the department, in cooperation
with National Taiwan University and its hospital, and involved a
sample of 12,000 students from four million students between the
ages of 7 and 18 nationwide. Myopia has been on the increase in
Taiwan ever since the first myopia survey in 1983. The department
manages the survey every four or five years.
The growth of nearsightedness among young children is thought
to result from learning to read very young and using computers
very young, Chen pointed out.
Last year, the department and the Ministry of Education
delivered official documents to kindergartens nationwide demanding
that children not be taught to read or use computers too early.
"But many teachers and parents protested against this appeal,"
said the department officials. "They questioned exactly what they
were permitted to teach if reading was not allowed."
"We do hope that parents and teachers can heighten their
awareness of myopia and understand that early learning does not
guarantee students' performance in the future, but it does bear a
strong correlation to defects in vision," Chen said. The
department also appealed for children under the age of 10 not to
be taught how to use computers.
Senior high school students suffer the highest rates of
nearsightedness, at over 84 percent. "It reached a plateau five
years ago and has not changed this year. But their myopia has
become more serious," Chen said. According to the survey, 20
percent of third graders in senior high schools are seriously
nearsighted.
Many people thought operations could cure myopia. "But the
superficial improvement of vision does not better the health of
the eye. More importantly, it might reduce people's awareness of
other problems associated with nearsightedness, apart from visual
ones," said Lin Lung-kuang, ophthalmology professor at National
Taiwan University. "Myopia cannot be cured. We have to prevent
children from becoming nearsighted. Don't let them use their
vision too early," Lin urged.
Because of the public's lack of awareness of myopia, the
department estimated its prevalence would continue to grow.
"Singapore resembles Taiwan in many respects and the extent of its
myopia problem might serve as a warning for us," Chen said.
__________________________________________________________
** Below are the 5 sources of the statistics for the
behavior of the natural primate and Eskimo eye.
1. "Visual Refractive Errors of Wild and Laboratory Monkeys", Francis
A. Young, Pullman, Washington, E.E.N.T. Digest, Volume
27, Pages 55-71, August 1965
Wild Primate eyes:
N = 598 Eyes
Mean = 0.63 Diopters
Standard Deviation = 0.72 diopters
What this means:
68 percent have refractive states from -.1 diopters to +1.35
diopters
96 percent will have refractive states from -0.8 diopters to
+2.07 diopters.
"...Animals less than 12 years old with refractive errors
between +2.0 and -0.5 diopters, normal retina and no obvious
visual difficulties are likely to have 20/20 acuity at near and
far at better-than the 5 % level of confidence.
Of some 26 rhesus monkeys within with in this range of
refractive errors ALL had 20/15 or 20/20 visual acuity. Animals
with refractive errors greater-than +2.0 diopters may have 20/20
acuity at far but not at near.
Animals with refractive errors which are more minus than -0.5
diopters will not have 20/20 acuity at far but may have it at
near."
"...Thus individuals with 20/20 acuity may have refractive
errors ranging from 0 to +3 diopters."
Francis A. Young
*****************************************
2. "Ocular Biometry of Eskimo Families", Francis A. Young, George
A. Leary, Primate Research Center, Washington State
University, Pullman, Washington, Diagnostica Ultrasonica
in Ophthalmologia, Paris, Centre National d'Ophthalmologie
des Quinze-vingts, 1973
What is the range of refractive STATES of the natural human
eye -- that have not been profoundly "affected" by 12 to 16 years
in school?
Data taken from:
"The Transmission of Refractive Errors within Eskimo
Families", 1969
Francis Young
George Leary
William Baldwin
Donald West
and
Roy Box
Eugene Harris
Curtis Johnson
Refractive STATES from age 36 to 65:
N = 143 Eskimos
Mean = +1.8 Diopters average
Sigma = 1.27 Diopters
What this data tells us about the 20/20 eye -- using a normal
distribution:
68 percent are positive:
+0.68 diopters to +3.15 diopters
Or no myopia in that percentage.
96 percent between these values:
-0.6 diopters to +4.4 diopters
It is possible to have 20/20 and a retinoscope measurement of
-0.6 diopters.
The published measured values were from
-1.95 diopters to +5.89 Diopters.
There was one Eskimo with a refractive state greater than
-1.0 diopters.
Or, 1/143 = 0.6 percent were significantly myopic.
This result compares with the "educated" Eskimos (younger)
that show average myopia of -2.07 diopters, and 87 percent were
classed as myopic, with approximately 70 percent more myopic that
-1 diopters.
Additional Remarks:
These are the indications that the refractive STATE of the
natural eye simply follows its average visual environment -- as a
fundamental process.
While we have certainly "changed" in our "habits" over the
last 200 years, to suggest that our eyes do not change with change
in average visual environment is simply a failure of concept.
I certainly agree with the "intellectual" difficulties of
plus-prevention at the threshold.
But, I believe that we must understand this issue as an
"engineering trade-off".
By this I mean that a person who has a broad perspective on
these issues can wisely accept the need for systematic use of the
plus, and keep his visual acuity as always the required DMV test.
Or, in other words, progress is only possible with change.
Those people who will attempt to stop change, will also prevent
progress.
I would rather begin the use of the preventive-plus at a
refractive STATE of zero, or slightly negative, and keep my
distant vision in the positive range as per these Eskimo eyes --
than to develop stair case myopia from that long-term "near"
environment -- compounded by an excessively strong minus lens.
Most people never "see" these statistics.
But I think we should be made aware of them -- before a minus
lens is put on us.
Many people have NO INTEREST in keeping their vision clear
(by their Snellen) for life.
For that person -- these facts have no meaning.
But if you wish to keep your distant vision, then an
understanding of these facts might help you formulate a preventive
plan with the plus.
We can never know what any person might do. That is not for
us to judge.
These fact do not "prove" that the natural eye is dynamic
with respect to "environment" or a minus lens.
The reason is that you do not have "numerical" control over
the average value of accommodation.
Only when you place a -3 diopter lens on the eye (with the
accommodation system TRACKING that -3 diopter) can you finally
prove that the natural eye "follows" an applied minus lens. That
is scientific proof.
It takes a "wise" and motivated person (or pilot) to truly
"digest" this issue and take the necessary preventive actions.
This is indeed an "Engineering trade-off".
*******************************
3. "Spectacle lenses alter eye growth and the refractive status
of young monkeys" Li-Fang Hung, M.L.J. Crawford & Earl L.
Smith, Nature Medicine, Volume 1, Number 8, August 1995
Refractive STATES of young, normal primate eyes:
N = 22 Eyes
Mean = + 4.3 diopters
Standard Deviation = 1.3 diopters.
What this means:
68 percent of natural eyes will have refractive STATES from
+3 Diopters to +5.3 diopters
96 percent will have refractive STATES between +1.7 to +6.9
Diopters.
Subject: Analysis of refractive STATE change in a school
environment -- after 8 years, from plus to minus as natural
process.
I am convinced that Jake Raphaelson was correct -- and
convinced that ONLY you can protect your own children with the
plus.
As far as I am concerned, a child with a refractive STATE of
from zero to +1/2 diopter should receive a written notification of
the potential for plus prevention.
At that stage the child would have 20/30 vision or better,
and could wear a +1.0 diopter all the time.
The lens would create 20/60 to 20/70, for a period of time,
but -- with understanding -- the child could wear it all the time.
But from the primate studies, the refractive STATE will
slowly move positive. And after three or four months the
refractive state would move towards +3/4 to +1 diopters.
This type of result is predictable from the primate studies.
But it would take a wise parent the understand this issue.
The other alternative is to BEGIN the use of a plus for all
close work, and adjusted for the child's habitual reading
distance.
****************************************
4. Massin, J. and Poujol, J. (Eds.)) Diagonstica Ultrasonica in
Ophthalmologia, Paris, Centre National d'Ophthalmologie
des Quinze-vingts, 1973
Francis Young, George Leary
Here are the statistics:
Age 9
N = 109
Mean +1.43
SD = 1.40
===================
Age 17
N = 97
Mean = -0.94
SD = 1.97
====================
Calculation:
Z = X(c) - X(t) / Sqrt [ X(c) ^2 / N(c) + X(t) / N(t)
Z = 2.37 / Sqrt [ 1.4 ^2 / 109 + 1.97 ^2 / 97 ]
Z = 9.84
=================
This compares with 95 percent (significant) and 99 percent
(highly significant). These values are 1.64 and 2.33.
Virtually certain is anything above 3.9, and this value is
far above that number.
No single study, no one assessment can be effective.
But over 30 years you would expect that we could get
"smarter" about the need for plus-prevention at the threshold.
Or at the very minimum, understand the long-term consequences
of rejecting the preventive plus at the 0.0 diotper to + 1/2
diopter phase.
Perhaps these statistics will help a parent ACCEPT the need
for the preventive plus -- even when their child as 20/20 and zero
diopters.
*************************
5. "The Distribution of Refractive Errors in Monkeys", Francis A.
Young,
Exp. Eye Res. (1964) 3, 230-238,
Data: Monkeys in cages or confined enviroment for over 7 years.
N = 154 Eyes
Mean = -1.6 diopters
Sigma = 4.2 diopters
Measured spread: -22 to +5.5 diopters
The distribution of monkeys in the wild, for 598 eyes
had an approximate average of +0.7 diopters, and a
standard deviation of 0.7 diopters for comparison.
Otis
+++++++++
On Jun 6, 2:06 pm, "Mike Tyner" <mty...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Quote: otisbr...@pa.net> wrote
But the response so far has indeed been
of the superfical mind.
Our superficial minds want to see a t-test of your "prevention" technique.
Once you get around to publishing that, I'm sure all the ophthalmologists
will stop prescribing minus.
-MT |
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| Neil Brooks |
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:40 pm |
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On Jun 6, 7:16 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
Quote: Sure, Mike, here are the t-tests you requested.
I assume you mean student's "t" for small samples,
and "z" for large sample Gaussian distributions.
[ssssnip]
Back to just regurgitating endless bibliographical information that's
totally irrelevant to your primary point, huh, Uncle Otie?
I believe that Mike's looking for convincing clinical evidence--
substantiated by statistical analysis
http://www.socialresearchmethods.net/kb/stat_t.php
Showing that plus lenses prevent myopia and/or that minus lenses
cause, or accelerate, myopia.
You can't do that.
You won't do that.
You can't answer MY questions.
You won't answer MY questions.
You can't answer PClark's questions.
You won't answer PClark's questions.
You're dishonest.
Looking good there, Uncle Otie. |
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| Mike Tyner |
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:46 am |
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Guest
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<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote in message
news:1181182568.744458.304370@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Sure, Mike, here are the t-tests you requested.
That's silly, we know Asians get nearsighted.
Show us t-tests comparing Asians wearing glasses with Asians who don't.
Show us t-tests comparing Asians wearing plus with Asians who don't.
Tell us why Asian governments haven't restricted the use of minus lenses.
Many of those countries have no optometry, BTW. Who do you blame for
prescribing evil minus?
-MT
Quote: On Jun 6, 2:06 pm, "Mike Tyner" <mty...@mindspring.com> wrote:
otisbr...@pa.net> wrote
But the response so far has indeed been
of the superfical mind.
Our superficial minds want to see a t-test of your "prevention"
technique.
Once you get around to publishing that, I'm sure all the ophthalmologists
will stop prescribing minus.
-MT
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| Guest |
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:07 pm |
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On Jun 6, 10:16 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
Quote: Sure, Mike, here are the t-tests you requested.
I assume you mean student's "t" for small samples,
and "z" for large sample Gaussian distributions.
Dr. Francis Young spent a lot if time collecting
these facts concerning the dynamic behavior
of the fundamental eye.
But you never understand that at all.
Ya get my drift, partner?
Otis
++++++++
[The reference studies for the primates and Eskimos are at
the end of this page. **]
FIRST-YEAR HONG KONG UNIVERSITY STUDENTS 87.5 % MYOPIC
o Goh and Lam (Goh, W.S. and Lam, C.S., "Changes in refractive
trends and optical components of Hong Kong Chinese aged 19-39
years," Ophthal. Physiol. Opt., 14:378-382, 1994) found that
in 2000 first-year students at the University of Hong Kong,
the prevalence of myopia was 87.5%.
******************
MYOPIA PREVALENCE IS ALWAYS HIGHER THAN 92 PERCENT
FOR TAIWAN MEDICAL STUDENTS
o Lin et al (Lin, L.K., Shih, Y.F., Lee, Y.C., Hung, P.T., and
Hou, P.K., " Changes in ocular refraction and its components
among medical students - a 5-year longitudinal study", Optom.
Vis. Sci., 73:495-498, 1996) found that in a study of 345
National Taiwan University medical students, the myopia
prevalence increased from 92.8% to 95.8% over the five year
period.
******************
OPTOMETRY STUDENTS 72 PERCENT MYOPIC
o Lam and Yap (Lam, C.S. and Yap, M. "Ocular dimensions and
refraction in Chinese Orientals", Proc. Int. Soc. Eye Res.,
6:121, 1990) found that in a group of optometry students at
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, the prevalence of myopia
was 75% in females and 69% in males.
******************
70 PERCENT MYOPIC AT AGES 16 TO 17 YEARS OLD
o Regarding the prevalence of myopia in Asian countries, Lam and
Goh (Lam, C.S. and Goh, W.S., "The incidence of refractive
errors among schoolchildren in Hong Kong in relationship with
the optical components", Clin. Exp. Optom., 74:97-103, 1991)
found that in 383 school children from ages 6 to 17 years, the
prevalence of myopia increased from 30% at ages 6-7 years, to
70% at ages 16-17 years.
******************
December 6, 2000
By Liu Shao-hua
Staff reporter
Taipei Times
Subject: Myopia Increases Among Children
One of every five children in the first grade in Taiwan's
elementary schools is myopic (nearsighted). The proportion of
myopics in this group has increased from 12.1 percent in 1995 to
20.4 percent this year, according to the results of a survey
released by the Department of Health yesterday.
The results also show that 60.7 percent of sixth graders in
elementary schools, 80.7 percent of third graders in junior high
schools, and 84.2 percent of third graders in senior high schools
suffer from myopia. In addition, the number of seriously myopic
children is also on the rise. The proportion of seriously myopic
children among sixth graders in elementary schools has increased
from 2 percent five years ago to 2.4 percent this year.
Serious myopia is defined as exceeding 600 degrees (6
diopters). Anything over 25 degrees (0.25 diopters) is myopia.
Normal eyesight is zero degrees.
"We appeal for reductions to children's work load in schools
and the amelioration of visual environments in daily life," said
Chen Tzay-jinn, director-general of the health promotion bureau,
under the health department.
The survey was conducted by the department, in cooperation
with National Taiwan University and its hospital, and involved a
sample of 12,000 students from four million students between the
ages of 7 and 18 nationwide. Myopia has been on the increase in
Taiwan ever since the first myopia survey in 1983. The department
manages the survey every four or five years.
The growth of nearsightedness among young children is thought
to result from learning to read very young and using computers
very young, Chen pointed out.
Last year, the department and the Ministry of Education
delivered official documents to kindergartens nationwide demanding
that children not be taught to read or use computers too early.
"But many teachers and parents protested against this appeal,"
said the department officials. "They questioned exactly what they
were permitted to teach if reading was not allowed."
"We do hope that parents and teachers can heighten their
awareness of myopia and understand that early learning does not
guarantee students' performance in the future, but it does bear a
strong correlation to defects in vision," Chen said. The
department also appealed for children under the age of 10 not to
be taught how to use computers.
Senior high school students suffer the highest rates of
nearsightedness, at over 84 percent. "It reached a plateau five
years ago and has not changed this year. But their myopia has
become more serious," Chen said. According to the survey, 20
percent of third graders in senior high schools are seriously
nearsighted.
Many people thought operations could cure myopia. "But the
superficial improvement of vision does not better the health of
the eye. More importantly, it might reduce people's awareness of
other problems associated with nearsightedness, apart from visual
ones," said Lin Lung-kuang, ophthalmology professor at National
Taiwan University. "Myopia cannot be cured. We have to prevent
children from becoming nearsighted. Don't let them use their
vision too early," Lin urged.
Because of the public's lack of awareness of myopia, the
department estimated its prevalence would continue to grow.
"Singapore resembles Taiwan in many respects and the extent of its
myopia problem might serve as a warning for us," Chen said.
__________________________________________________________
** Below are the 5 sources of the statistics for the
behavior of the natural primate and Eskimo eye.
1. "Visual Refractive Errors of Wild and Laboratory Monkeys", Francis
A. Young, Pullman, Washington, E.E.N.T. Digest, Volume
27, Pages 55-71, August 1965
Wild Primate eyes:
N = 598 Eyes
Mean = 0.63 Diopters
Standard Deviation = 0.72 diopters
What this means:
68 percent have refractive states from -.1 diopters to +1.35
diopters
96 percent will have refractive states from -0.8 diopters to
+2.07 diopters.
"...Animals less than 12 years old with refractive errors
between +2.0 and -0.5 diopters, normal retina and no obvious
visual difficulties are likely to have 20/20 acuity at near and
far at better-than the 5 % level of confidence.
Of some 26 rhesus monkeys within with in this range of
refractive errors ALL had 20/15 or 20/20 visual acuity. Animals
with refractive errors greater-than +2.0 diopters may have 20/20
acuity at far but not at near.
Animals with refractive errors which are more minus than -0.5
diopters will not have 20/20 acuity at far but may have it at
near."
"...Thus individuals with 20/20 acuity may have refractive
errors ranging from 0 to +3 diopters."
Francis A. Young
*****************************************
2. "Ocular Biometry of Eskimo Families", Francis A. Young, George
A. Leary, Primate Research Center, Washington State
University, Pullman, Washington, Diagnostica Ultrasonica
in Ophthalmologia, Paris, Centre National d'Ophthalmologie
des Quinze-vingts, 1973
What is the range of refractive STATES of the natural human
eye -- that have not been profoundly "affected" by 12 to 16 years
in school?
Data taken from:
"The Transmission of Refractive Errors within Eskimo
Families", 1969
Francis Young
George Leary
William Baldwin
Donald West
and
Roy Box
Eugene Harris
Curtis Johnson
Refractive STATES from age 36 to 65:
N = 143 Eskimos
Mean = +1.8 Diopters average
Sigma = 1.27 Diopters
What this data tells us about the 20/20 eye -- using a normal
distribution:
68 percent are positive:
+0.68 diopters to +3.15 diopters
Or no myopia in that percentage.
96 percent between these values:
-0.6 diopters to +4.4 diopters
It is possible to have 20/20 and a retinoscope measurement of
-0.6 diopters.
The published measured values were from
-1.95 diopters to +5.89 Diopters.
There was one Eskimo with a refractive state greater than
-1.0 diopters.
Or, 1/143 = 0.6 percent were significantly myopic.
This result compares with the "educated" Eskimos (younger)
that show average myopia of -2.07 diopters, and 87 percent were
classed as myopic, with approximately 70 percent more myopic that
-1 diopters.
Additional Remarks:
These are the indications that the refractive STATE of the
natural eye simply follows its average visual environment -- as a
fundamental process.
While we have certainly "changed" in our "habits" over the
last 200 years, to suggest that our eyes do not change with change
in average visual environment is simply a failure of concept.
I certainly agree with the "intellectual" difficulties of
plus-prevention at the threshold.
But, I believe that we must understand this issue as an
"engineering trade-off".
By this I mean that a person who has a broad perspective on
these issues can wisely accept the need for systematic use of the
plus, and keep his visual acuity as always the required DMV test.
Or, in other words, progress is only possible with change.
Those people who will attempt to stop change, will also prevent
progress.
I would rather begin the use of the preventive-plus at a
refractive STATE of zero, or slightly negative, and keep my
distant vision in the positive range as per these Eskimo eyes --
than to develop stair case myopia from that long-term "near"
environment -- compounded by an excessively strong minus lens.
Most people never "see" these statistics.
...
read more »
thanks for cutting and pasting these references again.
perhaps you would like to tell us what your conclusions are from these
publications-- as an objective engineer and as a rational thinking
person, what do these publications prove to you. |
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| DoctorRick |
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:06 pm |
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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:16:08 -0700, "otisbrown@pa.net"
<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote:
Quote: Sure, Mike, here are the t-tests you requested.
I don't believe these were the results MT was looking for.
But its all you have, that and your faith, and so I guess you'll post
and repost it again.
We all know that there is increased prevalence of myopia in Asians.
We all know the Eskimo story.
We all know that when monkeys had -3.00 lenses permanently afixed to
their eyes that they become myopic.
But what does all this stuff you posted prove?
These are simply observations. And its true they so suggest some
theories that should be tested, but they have already and the data is
published. So then why don't you discuss the results of those studies
where possible therapies for preventing myopia are explored? Why not
present the actual data from the studies where groups of humans were
tested who plus readers versus another groups who did not? Why don't
you discuss the statistics of studies where humans who wore bifocals
added to their glasses versus those who did not? Why don't you
discuss human studies where groups were actually overminused while
other groups were not? And why not discuss the results of studies
where underminused myopies were compared to properly corrected myopes?
These are the hard cold facts. These results show attempts to reduce
myopia progression DO NOT WORK-- including plus lenses.
Your critical thinking abilities are none existent. Are you sure you
are really an engineer? What schools did you train at?
Stories and observations do not prove anything Otis. Scientific
studies with control groups and careful data analysis do. Why do you
ignor the data?
Are you retired or did you get fired? |
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