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Science Forum Index » Immunology Forum » Antibody hoax
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| JOHN |
 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:16 pm |
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This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination
I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning. Especially in HIV antibody testing, it is clear that the antibodies
that are detected in the test are present in everybody. Some people have
them in higher concentrations, and some in lower concentrations, but only
when you reach a very high level of antibodies -- much higher than in any
other antibody testing -- are you considered to be "positive." This is a
contradiction in terms because in other antibody tests, the lower your level
of antibodies, the higher your risk for a symptomatic infection. But with
HIV they say you are "positive" only when you have reached a very high level
of antibodies. Below this level, you are said to be negative. [1995]
INTERVIEW STEFAN LANKA
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/antibody.html |
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| David Wright |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:49 am |
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In article <T4ednQxEJ4Iq-1_YnZ2dnUVZ8s6gnZ2d@bt.com>,
JOHN <john@btinternet.com> wrote:
Quote: This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination
I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning. Especially in HIV antibody testing, it is clear that the antibodies
that are detected in the test are present in everybody. Some people have
them in higher concentrations, and some in lower concentrations, but only
when you reach a very high level of antibodies -- much higher than in any
other antibody testing -- are you considered to be "positive." This is a
contradiction in terms because in other antibody tests, the lower your level
of antibodies, the higher your risk for a symptomatic infection. But with
HIV they say you are "positive" only when you have reached a very high level
of antibodies. Below this level, you are said to be negative. [1995]
INTERVIEW STEFAN LANKA
Lanka is just about the only "virologist" in the world who doesn't
believe in HIV. I put the term in quotes not because I disdain
virologists but because I don't think he's worthy of the title.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins |
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| Bryan Heit |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:56 am |
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JOHN wrote:
Quote: This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination
I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.
Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies
which determine that an immune response has occurred.
Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine,
virology and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up :)
Antibodies come in multiple "flavors", called isotypes. Each has a
specific function. Antibody-producing cells (B cells) are continually
produced by our immune system. B cells "create" antibodies through the
random recombination of DNA followed by mutation of the resulting
genetic sequences. Those cells which identify our body with high
affinity are eliminated, the rest mature into B cells. Because this is
a random process we will have B-cells which identify pretty much
anything - including HIV.
These new B-cells produce 2 very specific types of antibodies - IgM and
IgD. As such the presence of these antibodies do not indicate the
presence of an immune response. However, when B-cells become activated
they undergo a process called class switch, and begin producing
different isotypes of antibody - IgG, IgA & IgE, depending on the type
of immune response and its location in your body. For the rest of its
lifetime, even if/after the infection is cleared, these cells will
continue to produce one of these isotypes of antibody.
These forms of antibody - IgG, IgE and IgA are produced only AFTER you
have had an immune response against the specific pathogen identified by
those cells (or when you encounter a proxy antigen, in a vaccine).
Hence, we know that if you detect these isoforms of antibodies against
an infectious agent that you have been exposed to that agent.
Of course Lanka failed to mention that, but given his background, and
Johns continued dishonesty, no one here is surprised.
Probably the last thing worth pointing out is that in developed nations,
serological testing rarely used anymore. Far more sensitive and
accurate tests, like PCR, are now the standard test (and a hell of a lot
cheaper). Leave it to John to be a decade out of date.
Bryan |
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| JOHN |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:29 am |
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"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:epvftp$u4o$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote: JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination
I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.
Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies which
determine that an immune response has occurred.
Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine, virology
and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up :)
Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.
here is the man doing vaccination research when it has never been proven to
do anything except kill and maim kids, how smart is that?
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html
"If you read the literature very carefully, you will find that, while there
is a strong marker for the disease, there is no hard scientific evidence to
support the existence of a hepatitis C virus. Clearly, a non-A, non-B
hepatitis disease exists, but the science behind an associated virus is weak
at best. As a scientist I am compelled to ask, how can we vaccinate people
against a disease-causing agent that has not been fully characterized?"---Dr
Urnovitz http://www.whale.to/vaccines/urnovitz.html |
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| Jeff |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:50 am |
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"JOHN" <john@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:q9CdnWQJyKNU117YRVnyvAA@bt.com...
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:epvftp$u4o$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination
I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.
Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies
which determine that an immune response has occurred.
Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine, virology
and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up :)
Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.
But, can you understand them? From your responses here, I doubt it.
Quote: here is the man doing vaccination research when it has never been proven
to do anything except kill and maim kids, how smart is that?
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html
The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited. The
site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why Hib
menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why polio all
but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are good
vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.
The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on the
whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her name on
it.
Quote: "If you read the literature very carefully, you will find that, while
there is a strong marker for the disease, there is no hard scientific
evidence to support the existence of a hepatitis C virus. Clearly, a
non-A, non-B hepatitis disease exists, but the science behind an
associated virus is weak at best. As a scientist I am compelled to ask,
how can we vaccinate people against a disease-causing agent that has not
been fully characterized?"---Dr Urnovitz
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/urnovitz.html
There are several different viruses that cause hepatitis besides Hep A and
B. There is a Hep D virus, which can only replicate with the help of
hepatitis B virus. There are hep. E and F viruses. CMV and Epstein Barre
viruses can cause hepatitis. So can HIV. And, of course, there is hepatitis
C, for which there is overwhelming evidence.
The guy on this page calls himself a scientist. A jerk is more like it.
Testifying before Congress doesn't make him correct. People who say there is
no global warming and people who said that Iraq has weapons of mass
destruction have testified before Congress, too.
Jeff |
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| Bryan Heit |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:07 pm |
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Jeff wrote:
Quote: "JOHN" <john@btinternet.com> wrote in message
Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.
But, can you understand them? From your responses here, I doubt it.
john has sown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he does not understand
them. The simplest biology is beyond him, as is logic, or for that
matter, sane thought.
Quote: The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.
john is the whaleto developer, explains a lot, doesn't it!
Bryan |
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| JOHN |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:02 pm |
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"Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9dIwh.62$VY5.16@trnddc08...
Quote:
The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.
The site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why
Hib menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why
polio all but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are
good vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.
and aren't you the guy who complains about personal attacks
Quote:
The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on the
whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her name on
it.
first guy to cotton on to my sex change |
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| Jeff |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:21 pm |
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Guest
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"JOHN" <john@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:OoGdnQfU0v4H817YRVnytQA@bt.com...
Quote:
"Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9dIwh.62$VY5.16@trnddc08...
The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.
The site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why
Hib menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why
polio all but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are
good vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.
and aren't you the guy who complains about personal attacks
I am commenting on the content of the site.
Quote: The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on
the whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her
name on it.
first guy to cotton on to my sex change
I didn't know you had a sex change. No one I have seen claims to be the
author of the site, so I am assuming that it is a female who is writing the
site. It may be a male. Either way, it is a clueless twit.
And, no, this is not a personal attack. I am commenting on the demonstrated
intellectual skills of the author.
Jeff |
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| David Wright |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:20 pm |
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In article <q9CdnWQJyKNU117YRVnyvAA@bt.com>, JOHN <john@btinternet.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:epvftp$u4o$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination
I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.
Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies which
determine that an immune response has occurred.
Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine, virology
and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up :)
Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.
And understand them when hell freezes over.
Quote: here is the man doing vaccination research when it has never been proven to
do anything except kill and maim kids, how smart is that?
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html
"If you read the literature very carefully, you will find that, while there
is a strong marker for the disease, there is no hard scientific evidence to
support the existence of a hepatitis C virus. Clearly, a non-A, non-B
hepatitis disease exists, but the science behind an associated virus is weak
at best. As a scientist I am compelled to ask, how can we vaccinate people
against a disease-causing agent that has not been fully characterized?"---Dr
Urnovitz http://www.whale.to/vaccines/urnovitz.html
One of the many appalling features of whale.to is that it is never,
ever updated to reflect any new information, unless, of course, it's
supplemental misinformation (to augment the misinformation already
present).
Urnovitz's claim might have been tenable at one time, but it's long
since become obsolete. Here's a nice UK website that has all the info
you need to see that Urnovitz's claims above are, to use one of John's
favorite words, bollocks:
http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/3035/HCV.html
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins |
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| David Wright |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:21 pm |
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Guest
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In article <OoGdnQfU0v4H817YRVnytQA@bt.com>, JOHN <john@btinternet.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9dIwh.62$VY5.16@trnddc08...
The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.
The site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why
Hib menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why
polio all but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are
good vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.
and aren't you the guy who complains about personal attacks
Sorry, John, but pointing out the many deficiencies in whale.to is not
a personal attack.
Quote: The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on the
whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her name on
it.
first guy to cotton on to my sex change
What were you before?
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins |
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| JOHN |
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:42 am |
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Guest
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"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:rdq7s2d0idbc9l6hhidf3sf3qvllpdi22e@4ax.com...
Quote:
I'm surprised that John keeps citing whale.to as a source. Within the
last couple of days he has refused to accept that a statement
attributed to anti-vaccination liar Ray Gallup which appears on
whale.to contains words actually written by Mr Gallup.
Thanks for exhibiting your mind set.
You claimed Gallup said MMR causes autism, not mercury, in an attempt to
make out we all think mercury doesn't cause autism because this anti-vax guy
ALLEGEDLY said so
yet you FAILED to produce his words saying that.
Instead you produced words from my site saying he thought MMR gave his kid
brain damage or autism
You then claim I refuse to accept this statement of his!
weird or what?
so anyone can now see why you would like to put a link to my page outlining
your mental state of mind, I'm not sure of the exact terminology for it.
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| JohnDoe |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:42 am |
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JOHN wrote:
Quote: "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:rdq7s2d0idbc9l6hhidf3sf3qvllpdi22e@4ax.com...
I'm surprised that John keeps citing whale.to as a source. Within the
last couple of days he has refused to accept that a statement
attributed to anti-vaccination liar Ray Gallup which appears on
whale.to contains words actually written by Mr Gallup.
Thanks for exhibiting your mind set.
You claimed Gallup said MMR causes autism, not mercury, in an attempt to
make out we all think mercury doesn't cause autism because this anti-vax guy
ALLEGEDLY said so
yet you FAILED to produce his words saying that.
Uhm, didn't I see Peter Bowditch link to whale.to, where you can find
Gallup's words, saying just that? I agree that technically Peter didn't
produce the words, he linked to them, but whale.to is such a reliable,
trustworthy source of information that that is even better, don't you agree?
Quote: Instead you produced words from my site saying he thought MMR gave his kid
brain damage or autism
Ah, you're still having trouble understanding that when someone says MMR
is *the* cause of autism, that person is saying at the same time that
there can be no other cause. Not mercury, not aluminum, not pasteurized
milk - nothing but MMR.
Quote: You then claim I refuse to accept this statement of his!
weird or what?
Yes it is.
Quote: so anyone can now see why you would like to put a link to my page outlining
your mental state of mind, I'm not sure of the exact terminology for it.
I do like the page about me at whale.to, though. It's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html and I am so ashamed of it that I
link to it from my web site. Just in case you missed it, it's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html |
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| D. C. Sessions |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:57 am |
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In message <45c6dfd4$1$1547$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl>, JohnDoe wrote:
Quote: Uhm, didn't I see Peter Bowditch link to whale.to, where you can find
Gallup's words, saying just that?
If linking to whale.to isn't a valid rhetorical technique in
an exchange with John Scudamore, then why is it practically
the only one Scudamore uses besides /argumentum ad hominem?/
--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+ |
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| PeterB |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:27 pm |
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On Feb 3, 4:42 am, "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote:
Quote: "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:rdq7s2d0idbc9l6hhidf3sf3qvllpdi22e@4ax.com...
I'm surprised that John keeps citing whale.to as a source. Within the
last couple of days he has refused to accept that a statement
attributed to anti-vaccination liar Ray Gallup which appears on
whale.to contains words actually written by Mr Gallup.
Thanks for exhibiting your mind set.
Mind? I wouldn't go that far. He does do a pretty good Bugs Bunny
impersonation. I think he would have won in court if, instead of
kissing the judge, he had just stick with waving a carrot. A rabbit's
gotta know his limitations.
Quote: You claimed Gallup said MMR causes autism, not mercury, in an attempt to
make out we all think mercury doesn't cause autism because this anti-vax guy
ALLEGEDLY said so
yet you FAILED to produce his words saying that.
Instead you produced words from my site saying he thought MMR gave his kid
brain damage or autism
You then claim I refuse to accept this statement of his!
weird or what?
so anyone can now see why you would like toputa link to my page outlining
your mental state of mind, I'm not sure of the exact terminology for it.
I do like the page about me at whale.to, though. It's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.htmland I am soashamedof it that I
link to it from my web site. Just in case you missed it, it's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| PeterB |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:34 pm |
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Guest
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JOHN wrote:
Quote: "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:rdq7s2d0idbc9l6hhidf3sf3qvllpdi22e@4ax.com...
I'm surprised that John keeps citing whale.to as a source. Within the
last couple of days he has refused to accept that a statement
attributed to anti-vaccination liar Ray Gallup which appears on
whale.to contains words actually written by Mr Gallup.
Thanks for exhibiting your mind set.
Mind? I wouldn't go that far. He does do a pretty good Bugs Bunny
impersonation. I think he would have won in court if, instead of
kissing the judge, he had just stuck with waving a carrot. A rabbit's
gotta know his limitations.
Quote: You claimed Gallup said MMR causes autism, not mercury, in an attempt to
make out we all think mercury doesn't cause autism because this anti-vax guy
ALLEGEDLY said so
yet you FAILED to produce his words saying that.
Instead you produced words from my site saying he thought MMR gave his kid
brain damage or autism
You then claim I refuse to accept this statement of his!
weird or what?
so anyone can now see why you would like to put a link to my page outlining
your mental state of mind, I'm not sure of the exact terminology for it.
I do like the page about me at whale.to, though. It's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html and I am so ashamed of it that I
link to it from my web site. Just in case you missed it, it's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html
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