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Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:52 pm
Guest
JACK TOMSKY: an HISTORIAL of nonsense


Only an absolute ignorant in the Hypotheses Test matter thinks the following

1) Your assertion that Hypotheses tests and Court Trials are the same thing,
2) Your belief that the Null Hypotheses could be find being really true (or the alternative one),
3) The belief that the null hypotheses are true equalities, not the statement that is not sufficient evidence the concerned parameters are different. They are CONCEPTS not merely term generalizations, not a Byzantine *nickpick* but really just within the realm of the matter to which none is allowed to hesitate. Note that in a) the persecutor?s identity switch, if detected, we prove H0, a *forbidden* situation in Hypotheses TestIs surely on his matters Jack Tomsky should rethink urgently.


__________licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Jack Tomsky
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:58 pm
Guest
Quote:
JACK TOMSKY: an HISTORIAL of nonsense


Only an absolute ignorant in the Hypotheses Test
matter thinks the following

1) Your assertion that Hypotheses tests and Court
Trials are the same thing,
2) Your belief that the Null Hypotheses could be find
being really true (or the alternative one),
3) The belief that the null hypotheses are true
e equalities, not the statement that is not
sufficient evidence the concerned parameters are
different. They are CONCEPTS not merely term
generalizations, not a Byzantine *nickpick* but
really just within the realm of the matter to which
none is allowed to hesitate. Note that in a) the
persecutor?s identity switch, if detected, we prove
H0, a *forbidden* situation in Hypotheses TestIs
surely on his matters Jack Tomsky should rethink
urgently.


__________licas (Luis A. Afonso)



Thanks for listing points which everyone except you agree on.

Jack
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:15 pm
Guest
I wrote:

JACK TOMSKY: an HISTORIAL of nonsense
Only an absolute ignorant in the Hypotheses Test matter thinks the following
1) Your assertion that Hypotheses tests and Court Trials are the same thing,
2) Your belief that the Null Hypotheses could be find being really true (or the alternative one),
3) The belief that the null hypotheses are true equalities, not the statement that is not sufficient evidence the concerned parameters are different. They are CONCEPTS not merely term generalizations, not a Byzantine *nickpick* but really just within the realm of the matter to which none is allowed to hesitate. Note that in a) the persecutor´s identity switch, if detected, we prove H0, a *forbidden* situation in Hypotheses Test Is surely on his matters Jack Tomsky should rethink urgently.***

To which Tomsky replied:
Thanks for listing points which everyone except you agree on.

Jack***

My reply

IN FACT *tout le monde * is well aware that (even the biologists)
a) Only apparently court trials and hypotheses tests are similar,
b) ANY hypotheses is proved by tests: they are merely a tool to find out if
____there are sufficient evidence (based on data) to reject H0, or are not. The first result leads us to conserve H0 (but we are not allowed to declare that H0 is true, NEVER). The second leads to state that *there is sufficient evidence of do not accept H0*, but at the chosen significance level: if you shorten it successively you will find a value to which you accept H0.
This dission can be seen in the WEB, find it Tomsky.
c) Consequently the *algebraic notation* in H0 concerning the parameters *equality* are misleading only to uneducated people, like Jack, the others shall read *not sufficient evidence , at the chosen significance level to distinguish the parameter´s values.

THAT´s ALL, FOLKS

(Thank you Jack Tomsky by your clear statement that you belief in that nonsense, because now is clear , indisputably clear, that you are a ZERO on Hypotheses Tests.

_______licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Jack Tomsky
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:25 pm
Guest
Quote:
I wrote:

JACK TOMSKY: an HISTORIAL of nonsense
Only an absolute ignorant in the Hypotheses Test
matter thinks the following
1) Your assertion that Hypotheses tests and Court
Trials are the same thing,
2) Your belief that the Null Hypotheses could be find
being really true (or the alternative one),
3) The belief that the null hypotheses are true
equalities, not the statement that is not sufficient
evidence the concerned parameters are different. They
are CONCEPTS not merely term generalizations, not a
Byzantine *nickpick* but really just within the realm
of the matter to which none is allowed to hesitate.
Note that in a) the persecutor´s identity switch, if
detected, we prove H0, a *forbidden* situation in
Hypotheses Test Is surely on his matters Jack Tomsky
should rethink urgently.***

To which Tomsky replied:
Thanks for listing points which everyone except you
agree on.

Jack***

My reply

IN FACT *tout le monde * is well aware that (even the
biologists)
a) Only apparently court trials and hypotheses tests
are similar,
b) ANY hypotheses is proved by tests: they are merely
a tool to find out if
____there are sufficient evidence (based on data) to
reject H0, or are not. The first result leads us to
conserve H0 (but we are not allowed to declare that
H0 is true, NEVER). The second leads to state that
*there is sufficient evidence of do not accept H0*,
but at the chosen significance level: if you shorten
it successively you will find a value to which you
accept H0.
This dission can be seen in the WEB, find it Tomsky.
c) Consequently the *algebraic notation* in H0
concerning the parameters *equality* are misleading
only to uneducated people, like Jack, the others
shall read *not sufficient evidence , at the chosen
significance level to distinguish the parameter´s
values.

THAT´s ALL, FOLKS

(Thank you Jack Tomsky by your clear statement that
you belief in that nonsense, because now is clear ,
indisputably clear, that you are a ZERO on Hypotheses
Tests.

_______licas (Luis A. Afonso)


My null hypothesis is that the number of papers published by you in refereed statistics journals is exactly equal to zero, where equals means equals. Thus, my inference is that there do not exist any reputable statisticians who believe in your nutty ideas.

Jack
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:58 pm
Guest
If you was A LITTLE MORE CONSCIOUS of your stupidity and UNLEARNING you will find out ON THE WEB the following sentence:

*** If we conclude 'do not reject H0', this does not necessarily mean that the null hypothesis is true, it only suggests that there is not sufficient evidence against H0 in favour of H1; rejecting the null hypothesis then, suggests that the alternative hypothesis may be true.***

AND the *nutty* is me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO´s the PECULIAR rotten MINDED?

__________licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Jack Tomsky
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:13 pm
Guest
Quote:
If you was A LITTLE MORE CONSCIOUS of your stupidity
and UNLEARNING you will find out ON THE WEB the
following sentence:

*** If we conclude 'do not reject H0', this does not
necessarily mean that the null hypothesis is true, it
only suggests that there is not sufficient evidence
against H0 in favour of H1; rejecting the null
hypothesis then, suggests that the alternative
hypothesis may be true.***

AND the *nutty* is me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO´s the PECULIAR rotten MINDED?

__________licas (Luis A. Afonso)



Since you've provided no statistical evidence against my null hypothesis, I therefore accept my null hypothesis. My null hypothesis is that the number of papers that you've had accepted in refereed statistical journals is equal to zero.

Jack
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:20 pm
Guest
You are not able to be further than
MOUTH DANCE. THIS IS EVIDENT!
_______licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Brett Magill
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:25 am
Guest
On Mar 11, 11:13 pm, Jack Tomsky <jtom...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Quote:
If you was A LITTLE MORE CONSCIOUS of your stupidity
and UNLEARNING you will find out ON THE WEB the
following sentence:

*** If we conclude 'do not reject H0', this does not
necessarily mean that the null hypothesis is true, it
only suggests that there is not sufficient evidence
against H0 in favour of H1; rejecting the null
hypothesis then, suggests that the alternative
hypothesis may be true.***

AND the *nutty* is me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO´s the PECULIAR rotten MINDED?

__________licas (Luis A. Afonso)

Since you've provided no statistical evidence against my null hypothesis, I therefore accept my null hypothesis. My null hypothesis is that the number of papers that you've had accepted in refereed statistical journals is equal to zero.

Jack

Jack,

Are you arguing simply for the sake of arguing? It is a given that
Afonso's posts are ridiculous. Your posts are starting to have the
same character. In this case, I don't see much in Afonso's position
that is objectionable, making some allowances for peculiar usage of
the English language. I think you will find this position in many a
credible source. A nice summary appears on Gerry's website, in no
uncertain terms. You can read it here: http://www.tufts.edu/~gdallal/sigtest.htm

I suppose you are just using bandwidth to amuse yourself.
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:08 am
Guest
AGAINST
Brett Magil and Jack Tomsky
(That are unlearned at a scandalous point.)
IN FACT it can be read in Wikipedia
*** [accepting H0]: There is not enough evidence to reject the hypothesis. This is not the same as evidence in favor of the hypothesis. That we cannot obtain using these arguments, since lack of evidence against a hypothesis is not evidence for it. On this basis, statistical research progresses by eliminating error, not by finding the truth.***
My comment
OF COURSE every first course in Statistic student is aware of this pecularity:: teachers THAT KNOW WHAT ARE SAYING does not fail to point out this feature.
Adding to the same I referred yet on the WEB
*** If we conclude 'do not reject H0', this does not necessarily mean that the null hypothesis is true, it only suggests that there is not sufficient evidence against H0 in favour of H1; rejecting the null hypothesis then, suggests that the alternative hypothesis may be true.***
ADDING
A SIMPLE SAMPLE SIZE EVALUATION that all the Readers should make: (a problem I solved as a University student, here, in Portugal).
*** FROM a normal population N(0, 1) (that only we know that is normal and sigma=1, mean unknown) we intend draw a random sample. What should be the minimum size in order not to reject ___H0 : the mean is at most 0.000´001 at the 0.001 significance level (one tailed test, Z = 3.090), against___Ha : mean greater than 0.000´001. ***
NOTE THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT, (MUST LESS DEMANDING) THAN IF
*********
I INTENDED TO KNOW THAT THE MEAN IS ZERO , WHICH CANNOT BE REACHED for finte sample sizes. THEREFORE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE IN PRACTICE.
_____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Jack Tomsky
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:21 am
Guest
Quote:
AGAINST
Brett Magil and Jack Tomsky
(That are unlearned at a scandalous point.)
IN FACT it can be read in Wikipedia
*** [accepting H0]: There is not enough evidence to
reject the hypothesis. This is not the same as
evidence in favor of the hypothesis. That we cannot
obtain using these arguments, since lack of evidence
against a hypothesis is not evidence for it. On this
basis, statistical research progresses by eliminating
error, not by finding the truth.***
My comment
OF COURSE every first course in Statistic student is
aware of this pecularity:: teachers THAT KNOW WHAT
ARE SAYING does not fail to point out this feature.
Adding to the same I referred yet on the WEB
*** If we conclude 'do not reject H0', this does not
necessarily mean that the null hypothesis is true, it
only suggests that there is not sufficient evidence
against H0 in favour of H1; rejecting the null
hypothesis then, suggests that the alternative
hypothesis may be true.***
ADDING
A SIMPLE SAMPLE SIZE EVALUATION that all the Readers
should make: (a problem I solved as a University
student, here, in Portugal).
*** FROM a normal population N(0, 1) (that only we
know that is normal and sigma=1, mean unknown) we
intend draw a random sample. What should be the
minimum size in order not to reject ___H0 : the mean
is at most 0.000´001 at the 0.001 significance level
(one tailed test, Z = 3.090), against___Ha : mean
greater than 0.000´001.



***
NOTE THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT, (MUST LESS DEMANDING)
THAN IF
*********
I INTENDED TO KNOW THAT THE MEAN IS ZERO , WHICH
CANNOT BE REACHED for finte sample sizes. THEREFORE
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE IN PRACTICE.
_____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
.


I have given you a null hypothsis which has an equals sign and which I accept with a sample of size one post. The null hypothesis is that the number of papers you've had published in statistics journals is equal to zero. I accept that hypothesis. Your lack of evidence against this null hypotheis is evidence in favor of it.

Jack
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:12 am
Guest
With the *skilfulness* you has been show regarding Statistics all your *papers* are suspect that you, all you lifetime, hitchhike the people really technically qualified.(I guess).
You are so miserable minded (and conscious of your unlearning) that you never answer objectively to the statistical questions I pose.
______ licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Jack Tomsky
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:27 am
Guest
Quote:
With the *skilfulness* you has been show regarding
Statistics all your *papers* are suspect that you,
all you lifetime, hitchhike the people really
technically qualified.(I guess).
You are so miserable minded (and conscious of your
unlearning) that you never answer objectively to the
statistical questions I pose.
______ licas (Luis A. Afonso)


You have said that one is forbidden from accepting a null hypothesis which contains an equals sign. In response to your claim, I gave you a counter-example. The null hypothesis is that the number of published papers by you in statistics journals is equal to zero.

I then took a sample of one post where you listed all your published papers. The number of papers you listed was zero. I therefore accepted my null hypothesis. This is an objective counter-example to your claim.

Jack
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:00 am
Guest
Jack
I was speaking the mean in R.
The mean value. . . , Jack
You are so stupid that for you R and N are alike
Universes.

______ licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:32 am
Guest
From HyperStat:
(It is the THIRD, to agree with me, therefore slashing Jack)

*** It would not have been correct to say that there was no difference between the performance of the two groups. There was a difference. It is just that the difference was not large enough to rule out chance as an explanation of the difference. It would also have been incorrect to imply that there is no difference in the population. Be sure not to accept the null hypothesis. ***
________licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Luis A. Afonso
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:36 pm
Guest
Richard Atkins wrote


*** Surely this all boils down to the same argument Fisher and Pearson were having nearly a century ago? Luis is considering hypothesis tests as providing a quantitative weight of evidence which can never establish the truth of either the null or the alternative hypothesis, while Jack is using hypothesis tests to make a binary decision. Assuming this is true then I suppose the one remaining question is whether Jack did a power analysis before deciding that N=1 was an adequate sample size? ***

My response

Thank you, Richard by the concern.
In fact, I have not sufficiently documentation, nor time, to study the fight between R.A. Fisher and Pearson. You can easily get that DATA PROCESSING in Research Practice one have no time (and no opportunity) to spend to appreciate such *delicacies*.
I think, (naively?) that the simulation procedure to find Confidence Intervals (the point under discussion) is not against NP theory, or at least against logic, in its broad sense.
However I am not sure. I am not quite concerned.
My job was simply to construct a table of values that will be (perhaps) of some usefulness for those believing in the method I used. Otherwise…, no one is forbidden to sweep them aside.
Concerning H0 and the *equality*, I always believed that it was a shortcut of the more precise question: are the data showing sufficient evidence that we should keep the hypotheses that *the status of the world* not *markedly* changed? Or on contrary, the observed difference is so big that *cannot* be owing to chance?
As a simple minded person I do not really care what the Testing Hypotheses philosophy is.


_____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
 
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