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Science Forum Index » Anthropology - Paleo Forum » [Fwd: Science team to search Gulf of Mexico - Yahoo! News]
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| Roger Bagula |
 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:02 am |
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Quote: Black Sea
In a series of expeditions, a team of marine archeologists led by
Ballard identified what appeared to be ancient shorelines, freshwater
snail shells, drowned river valleys, tool-worked timbers, and man-made
structures in roughly 300 feet (100 m) of water off the Black Sea coast
of modern Turkey. Radiocarbon dating of freshwater mollusk remains
indicated an age of about 7,000 years.
Quote:
According to a report in New Scientist magazine (May 4, 2002, p. 13),
the researchers found an underwater delta south of the Bosporus. There
was evidence for a strong flow of fresh water out of the Black Sea in
the 8th millennium BCE. Ballard's research has contributed to the debate
over the Black Sea deluge theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ballard
Posted by: "David Timpe" dptimpe@yahoo.com dptimpe
Fri Mar 2, 2007 9:00 am (PST)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070302/ap_on_sc/prehistoric_gulf_2
Back to Story - Help
Yahoo! News
Science team to search Gulf of Mexico
By MICHAEL GRACZYK, Associated Press WriterThu Mar 1, 11:11 PM ET
Famed undersea explorer Robert Ballard is leading a team of scientists
heading into the Gulf of Mexico for a weeklong examination of Texas'
ancient shoreline to see if anybody may have lived there.
Ballard, whose discoveries include the wrecks of the Titanic and the
German battleship Bismarck, is among dozens of geologists, biologists
and marine archaeologists exploring the Flower Garden Banks National
Marine Sanctuary, a protected area of underwater salt domes that are
topped with reefs that host brightly colored sponges, plants and other
marine life.
But 15,000 or more years ago, with much of North America locked in the
last Ice Age, water levels of the Gulf of Mexico were 200 feet lower,
meaning the area was the Texas shoreline some 100 miles south of where
it is now.
The estimated $300,000 project will examine what scientists believe are
those ancient shorelines. The team will leave from Galveston on Friday.
"Certainly a major part is our quest for evidence of human habitation in
the Flower Garden regions during the last Ice Age," Ballard said Thursday.
For Ballard, the deep-sea expedition will be the first in more than 100
over a 40-year career where he's not actually on or under the water.
Instead, he'll be at a command center in Mystic, Conn., one of six
centers around the country where scientists will be monitoring the
mission in real time with high-definition television images sent over
satellite and Internet links.
"It's going to be an interesting experience — not at sea." he said.
It's also a test run for explorations involving a new National Oceanic
and Atmospheric Administration research ship joining the fleet next
year. Missions from that ship, and other research vessels, will be done
more like this one with scientists in onshore locations, Ballard said.
"This is really a groundbreaking experiment," he said. "More
importantly, now I can go on many many expeditions."
Dwight Coleman, a University of Rhode Island oceanographer and the
mission's chief scientist, said researchers are in general agreement the
oldest human habitation in North America is about 12,000 years ago. A
discovery earlier than that would be historic.
"We don't know if people were really living on the shelf," he said of
the Gulf area they'll be exploring. "But we're very interested. We don't
know if we're going to find any remains or archaeological material."
Fishermen long have been pulling up mammoth or mastodon bones,
arrowheads and other evidence of prehistoric life off the North American
coasts, but firm evidence to tie it together has been evasive.
"We're going to use technology to take the water out, peel it away,"
said David Robinson, one of the mission archaeologists. "We might get
lucky."
Ballard said one thing to look for would be evidence of salt formations
tapped and mined by people.
"If you can imagine 20,000 years ago, salt would have been an important
commodity," he said. "If we find something significant, we'll be back in
spades with more sophisticated equipment."
Teams involved in the project include NOAA, the agency that manages the
sanctuary; Ballard's Immersion Presents, a science education program for
children in grades 5-8, along with his Institute of Exploration, which
develops deep sea research vehicles; the University of Rhode Island,
where Ballard is a professor of oceanography; and the U.S. Navy.
They'll be using two ships, a nuclear-powered research submarine, a
remotely operated underwater vehicle and scuba divers in the search.
The reefs are in waters ranging from 55 to 160 feet, but researchers are
most interested in the deeper areas difficult for scuba divers to reach
and plan to use the Navy research submarine and remote-controlled vehicle.
Other command centers are at NOAA headquarters in Silver Springs, Md.;
Seattle; the University of Rhode Island; University of New Hampshire;
and Smithfield High School in Smithfield, R.I.
Ballard plans several television programs daily during the weeklong
mission that will be broadcast to schools and museums and aquariums
around the nation.
___
On the Net:
http://www.immersionpresents.org
http://www.oceanslive.org
http://www.flowergarden.noaa.gov
Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The
information contained in the AP News report may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written
authority of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms
of Service | Send Feedback | Help
--
Respectfully, Roger L. Bagula
11759Waterhill Road, Lakeside,Ca 92040-2905,tel: 619-5610814
:http://www.geocities.com/rlbagulatftn/Index.html
alternative email: rlbagula@sbcglobal.net |
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| Daryl Krupa |
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:08 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 1118
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On Mar 3, 8:02�am, Roger Bagula <rlbag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: >Black Sea
> In a series of expeditions, a team of marine archeologists led by
Ballard identified what appeared to be ancient shorelines, freshwater
snail shells, drowned river valleys, tool-worked timbers, and man-made
structures in roughly 300 feet (100 m) of water off theBlack Seacoast
of modern Turkey. Radiocarbon dating of freshwater mollusk remains
indicated an age of about 7,000 years.
> According to a report in New Scientist magazine (May 4, 2002, p. 13),
the researchers found an underwater delta south of the Bosporus. There
was evidence for a strong flow of fresh water out of theBlack Seain
the 8th millennium BCE. Ballard's research has contributed to the debate
over theBlack Seadeluge theory.
snip
N.B.: There are at least five factual errors in these two
paragraphs
from a Wikipedia entry, and at least two odd interpretations.
"Encyclopedia{": a compendium of expert knowledge.
"Wikipedia": a compendium of popular imagination.
You can't believe everything you read in a glorified Web Log. |
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| Roger Lee Bagula |
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:48 am |
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Daryl Krupa wrote:
Quote:
N.B.: There are at least five factual errors in these two
paragraphs
from a Wikipedia entry, and at least two odd interpretations.
"Encyclopedia{": a compendium of expert knowledge.
"Wikipedia": a compendium of popular imagination.
You can't believe everything you read in a glorified Web Log.
You should be specific about the errors
because this guy got $300000 just to look around underwater
with his "tools".
I think he has a video robot or something.
If you "real" people won't do the research
somebody is going to
if it involves stuff as important as this.
My view after 40 year of "Clovis First" tyranny
is that "anybody but" the American establishment may be indicated.
Specially if we don't want the results buried again...
or not published.
When you can't trust scientists to be scientific
that means trouble.
Hopefully the web has ended that.
I just read a children's picture book that has Monte Verde at 15000 bp
well before Clovis. |
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| Daryl Krupa |
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:48 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 1118
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On Mar 4, 8:48 am, Roger Lee Bagula <rlbagulat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: Daryl Krupa wrote:
N.B.: There are at least five factual errors in these two
paragraphs
from a Wikipedia entry, and at least two odd interpretations.
"Encyclopedia{": a compendium of expert knowledge.
"Wikipedia": a compendium of popular imagination.
You can't believe everything you read in a glorified Web Log.
You should be specific about the errors
snip
Quote: ?>Black Sea
?
?> In a series of expeditions,
"Series of expeditions" is an exaggeration: there were
two visits to the site in question, the second only long enough to
grab a couple pieces of wood.
Quote: a team of marine archeologists led by
Ballard identified what appeared to be ancient shorelines,
freshwater
"Freshwater" is an error.
"Snail" is an error.
Quote: shells, drowned river valleys, tool-worked timbers,
"Tool-worked timbers" is an exaggeration:
they were chunks of wood.
Quote: and man-made structures
This, at best, an exaggeration.
Only one "structure" was found.
That "structure" was an association of
low mounds on the seafloor,
that one might imagine formed the outline of
a wall of a decayed mud-brick building.
Things assumed to be sones were scattered about the site,
but not in a pattern, and not in any particular association with
the low mounds. .
Quote: in roughly 300 feet (100 m) of water off theBlack Seacoast
of modern Turkey. Radiocarbon dating of freshwater
Again, "freshwater" is an error.
Quote: mollusk remains indicated an age of about 7,000 years.
Mollusk reamins were dated to less than 7000 years old,
but they were saltwater mollusk remains.
Nothing dated to about 7000 years old, and
an age of 7000 years on "freshwater" mollusk remains
would have disproved the flood idea.
Quote: ?
?> According to a report in New Scientist magazine (May 4, 2002, p. 13),
the researchers found an underwater delta south of the Bosporus.
The delta wqas found by other researchers, who used
the existence of that delta to prove that the flood idea
as proposed by Ryan and Pitman was wrong.
Quote: There was evidence for a strong flow of fresh water
Actually brackish water, not fresh water.
Quote: out of theBlack Seain the 8th millennium BCE.
This exactly contradicts the history proposed by Ryan and Pitman.
Quote: Ballard's research has contributed to the debate
over theBlack Seadeluge theory.
This is an exaggeration.
Ballard did not provide any new evidence to support or disprove
the flood idea as proposed by Ryan and Pitman.
Ballard's mollusk dates tended to waeken the flood idea, because
there was a gap of several centuries between
his youngest brackish-water mollusk and his oldest saltwater mollusk,
i.e., not a sudden changeover as Ryan and Pitman had imagined.
Ballard's mollusk dates did not date the ancient shoreline.
Ballard's dates on the three chunks of wood he removed from
the supposed "habitation site" were:
one from the Bronze Age, about 4000 years ago;
two from Napoleon's time, about 200 years ago,
which means that the supposed "man-made structure" is
more likely to be a Crimean-War-era shipwreck than Noah's House.
Ballard did not return to the suppose "habitation site"
after grabbing the wood samples, although he did
return to the Black Sea to look at other shipwrecks.
Ballard's investigation of the Black Sea flood idea was
a waste of money.
Even Ryan doesn't now think that anything special
happened to the level of the Black Sea 7500 years ago.
Ballard admitted in a press conference that
he had not found a "smoking gun" in the Black Sea;
that phrase has also been used to describe his results in
at least three other diving expeditions.
Do you see now why Wikipedia is unreliable as
a scientific reference source?
_
Daryl Krupa |
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| Roger Bagula |
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:06 am |
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Daryl Krupa wrote:
Quote: On Mar 4, 8:48 am, Roger Lee Bagula <rlbagulat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Daryl Krupa wrote:
Do you see now why Wikipedia is unreliable as
a scientific reference source?
_
Daryl Krupa
Daryl Krupa,
Wikipedia allows readers with knowledge to enter the editing process.
My suggestion is that if you don't like an article to tell them.
What I see is that you "interpret"
the data in a very cynical manner
that has pretty much nothing to do with the data involved.
I've definitely seen BBC articles on science with a grave an error as these.
If we allow the extremes in cynical thought to rule
almost nothing gets published in science. There is always
some doubt that facts are accurate.
"Truth" is for philosophy.
Roger Bagula |
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| Daryl Krupa |
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:20 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 1118
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On Mar 5, 8:06?am, Roger Bagula <rlbag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
Quote: "Truth" is for philosophy.
Science is philosophy. Natural philosophy.
And its name means "truth".
"Truth" is for science, is what you meant to write.
Science is not cynical, it is as accurate as can be.
To that end, it is self-regulating.
Wikipedia is not science.
Wikipedia is popular culture,
according to self-selected individuals.
Wikipedia is inherently unreliable. |
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| Roger Bagula |
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:30 pm |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:13 am |
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On 4 Mar 2007 12:48:08 -0800, "Daryl Krupa" <icycalmca@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Quote: ?> In a series of expeditions,
"Series of expeditions" is an exaggeration: there were
two visits to the site in question, the second only long enough to
grab a couple pieces of wood.
One can easily google his way up to at least three yearly expeditions
(1998, 1999, 2000) each one lasting between one and two weeks in the
field. Does it count as a series now? If not, what is the cut off
criterion?
Quote: a team of marine archeologists led by
Ballard identified what appeared to be ancient shorelines,
freshwater
"Freshwater" is an error.
Well, let's keep in mind that the agreed boundary between fresh and
brackish water is 5.0 ppth and count the way in which "freshwater" is
not an error:
1. Didacna morbunda,
2. light (negative) oxygen isotopic ratios in calcium carbonate,
3. Dreissena rostiformis,
4. pore fluids with salinity not higher than 3.5 ppth (yes, it would
be potable),
5. Turricaspia caspia lincta, and
6. Nobody agrees with Valentina Yanko-Hombach.
Quote: snail
"Snail" is an error.
See No. 5 above. Genus Turricaspia belongs to the Class Gastropoda,
that is, it's a snail, not an error.
Quote: ?> According to a report in New Scientist magazine (May 4, 2002, p. 13),
the researchers found an underwater delta south of the Bosporus.
The delta wqas found by other researchers, who used
the existence of that delta to prove that the flood idea
as proposed by Ryan and Pitman was wrong.
Actually, in 2002 Hiscott and Aksu assumed the delta's source was
Black Sea outflow through the Bosphorus and tried to prove the feeding
process was continuous since 10 ka, but they could not come up with a
date younger than 10.2 ka. As a side note, that delta was not found by
Hiscott and Aksu because its presence had been announced in Marine
Geology in 1989 by Turkish scientists. More importantly, in 2005
Gokasan, Algan and others convincingly supported (Geo-Mar Lett 25,
370-377) the 1989 conclusion that the source of the delta was the
Kurbagali Stream not the Bosphorus, and, therefore, it cannot have
been produced by Black Sea outflow.
Mircea |
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