An over energized world is a windier world -- don't think only in
terms of Global Warming, but also in terms of Freezing your balls off.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070227/BUSI...
80,000 Alliant customers remain without power
By WILLIAM RYBERG
REGISTER BUSINESS WRITER

February 27, 2007
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Some Alliant Energy customers could be without electricity for two
weeks, Alliant officials said today.

Utility officials also said parts of Alliant's distribution system
will be vulnerable to a new storm because repairs to some power lines
were made quickly and designed to last only temporarily.

About 80,000 Alliant customers remained without power today, said
Scott Drzycimski, an Alliant spokesman. The number was higher than
Monday's estimate of about 66,000 because crews working in the field
have been able to get a clearer picture of the outages, he added. The
higher estimate doesn't mean that more people are without power than
on Monday, he said.

Drzycimski also said an estimated 200,000 Alliant customers, about 40
percent of the utility's Iowa total, were without electricity at the
height of the storm, upping the estimate from the previous 170,000.
Power has been restored to about 127,000, he said.

He said causes of the continued outages fall into three categories:
Big feeder liners -- the interestate highways of the system -- serving
an area are down, distribution lines -- the city streets and driveways
of the system in communities -- are down, or in some cases both feeder
lines and distribution lines are down.

An estimated 35,000 customers remained without power in Marshalltown
and a broad area surrounding the community, Drzycimski said.

The Burlington area in southeast Iowa was among the hardest hit areas,
said Drzycimski. About 9,200 customers in Burlington and West
Burlington remained without power today, he said.

A work force of 1,300 Alliant employees and contractors and workers
from out-of-state utilities were working on Alliant repairs,
Drzycimski said.
"It will be many days, if not weeks, before all lines are restored,"
he said.

What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.

What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.
David

What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.

Just like the perfectly operational nationalized grid in russia?
Oh, wait... the perfectly operating nationalized grids in africa....
oh, wait..... The perfectly operating grids in asia? Oh, wait....
France. France is the only example of a properly operating
nationalized grid on the planet, ever think maybe there's a reason?
There's nothing wrong with the us grid, it's working, don't fuck
with it. We're going to need some new baseload stations soon, I'd
prefer those be nuclear rather than coal, but hey, they'll be whatever
the enviro-weenies fail to block.

On Feb 28, 12:37 pm, "bill" <ford_prefec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.

Just like the perfectly operational nationalized grid in russia?
Oh, wait... the perfectly operating nationalized grids in africa....
oh, wait..... The perfectly operating grids in asia? Oh, wait....
France. France is the only example of a properly operating
nationalized grid on the planet, ever think maybe there's a reason?
There's nothing wrong with the us grid, it's working, don't fuck
with it. We're going to need some new baseload stations soon, I'd
prefer those be nuclear rather than coal, but hey, they'll be whatever
the enviro-weenies fail to block.

Actually Bill most countries with reliable grids have national energy
production/grid operations. The US doesn't. Russia's grid actually
worked well, at the time of the USSR, but there was a huge shortage of
production. In fact, even the US grid in certain ways is nationalized
or highly regulated. I just don't trust private industry to run a
serious grid...and, our current grid is not OK, it is in need of huge
amounts of capital to expand it. It's one the biggest, if not THE
biggest problem in Calfiornia right now with north-south flow
completely constrained. I do appreciate you comments, however.

David

What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.

Just like the perfectly operational nationalized grid in russia?
Oh, wait... the perfectly operating nationalized grids in africa....
oh, wait..... The perfectly operating grids in asia? Oh, wait....
France. France is the only example of a properly operating
nationalized grid on the planet, ever think maybe there's a reason?
There's nothing wrong with the us grid, it's working, don't fuck
with it. We're going to need some new baseload stations soon, I'd
prefer those be nuclear rather than coal, but hey, they'll be whatever
the enviro-weenies fail to block.

"nada" <dwalters...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1172705506.941316.247240@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...



On Feb 28, 12:37 pm, "bill" <ford_prefec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.

Just like the perfectly operational nationalized grid in russia?
Oh, wait... the perfectly operating nationalized grids in africa....
oh, wait..... The perfectly operating grids in asia? Oh, wait....
France. France is the only example of a properly operating
nationalized grid on the planet, ever think maybe there's a reason?
There's nothing wrong with the us grid, it's working, don't fuck
with it. We're going to need some new baseload stations soon, I'd
prefer those be nuclear rather than coal, but hey, they'll be whatever
the enviro-weenies fail to block.

Actually Bill most countries with reliable grids have national energy
production/grid operations. The US doesn't. Russia's grid actually
worked well, at the time of the USSR, but there was a huge shortage of
production. In fact, even the US grid in certain ways is nationalized
or highly regulated. I just don't trust private industry to run a
serious grid...and, our current grid is not OK, it is in need of huge
amounts of capital to expand it. It's one the biggest, if not THE
biggest problem in Calfiornia right now with north-south flow
completely constrained. I do appreciate you comments, however.

So what you're saying is that California's grid is in need of some upgrades.
Fair enough, but that's not the whole country now is it? A NewYork company
is trying to get a HV line through from the Canadian border down towards
NYC. But since it's a private company and not a regulated utility, they've
run into a lot of opposition.

No doubt CA has similar problems. Last I heard, it was almost impossible to
get a siting permit for a new plant *anywhere* in the state. Yet demand
continues to grow.

IMHO, too many people want cheap, readily available power but are not
willing to sacrifice their own back yard to supply, transmit it.

daestrom

David

WRONG, Liar. California insists that people put electric production
plants in their back yards, or more correctly, on their rooftops. BY
2010 every developer that builds 50 units at a permit must include at
least 10% solar PV on the rooftops.

California has the largest or 2nd largest PV building plan in the
world, funded at 3.2 billion dollars for ten years. You can put these
powerplants everywhere and anywhere in the state, and local
jurisdictions cannot stop you.

So what you're saying is that California's grid is in need of some upgrades.
Fair enough, but that's not the whole country now is it? A NewYork company
is trying to get a HV line through from the Canadian border down towards
NYC. But since it's a private company and not a regulated utility, they've
run into a lot of opposition.

No doubt CA has similar problems. Last I heard, it was almost impossible to
get a siting permit for a new plant *anywhere* in the state. Yet demand
continues to grow.

IMHO, too many people want cheap, readily available power but are not
willing to sacrifice their own back yard to supply, transmit it.

On Feb 28, 4:05 pm, "Gonna Bust Up Exxon's Crime Ring"
CrookWa...@ScienceCop.info



WRONG, Liar. California insists that people put electric production
plants in their back yards, or more correctly, on their rooftops. BY
2010 every developer that builds 50 units at a permit must include at
least 10% solar PV on the rooftops.

California has the largest or 2nd largest PV building plan in the
world, funded at 3.2 billion dollars for ten years. You can put these
powerplants everywhere and anywhere in the state, and local
jurisdictions cannot stop you.

Why are you so rude? Can't you just have a discussion? First, I want
to see 100% of all NEW homes in California within certain areas (most
of the state geographically) have build in Grid Integrated PV (The
only kind of PV they are talking about). At $15,000 to $30,000 a shot
(assuming all the rental tax payers want to keep subsidizing home
owners, of course) which means a 50% tax subsidy from the state, there
is no reason not build GIPV into new homes, with the avergage new home
$350k to $550k a pop. Still, at best, 100% coverage for every home AND
if you had 24 hour-a-day sunlight, that's only 17% of California's
load. The rest is commerical/industrial/agricultural.

So get used to NOT having solar everywhere, even under the BEST
conditions.

David

Actually Bill most countries with reliable grids have national energy
production/grid operations. The US doesn't. Russia's grid actually
worked well, at the time of the USSR, but there was a huge shortage of
production. In fact, even the US grid in certain ways is nationalized
or highly regulated. I just don't trust private industry to run a
serious grid...and, our current grid is not OK, it is in need of huge
amounts of capital to expand it. It's one the biggest, if not THE
biggest problem in Calfiornia right now with north-south flow
completely constrained. I do appreciate you comments, however.
David

On 28 Feb 2007 10:13:28 -0800, "nada" <dwaltersMIA@gmail.com> wrote:

What is clear is the US grid needs a massive rebuilding and
investment. This should only really happen after a clear
nationalization, and not just regulation, takes place.
David

You may not be kidding everybody else, but you
are kidding yourself, there is no way that any country,
government, organization, or political entity can do
that

On 28 Feb 2007 "nada" <dwalters...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually Bill most countries with reliable grids have national energy
production/grid operations. The US doesn't. Russia's grid actually
worked well, at the time of the USSR, but there was a huge shortage of
production. In fact, even the US grid in certain ways is nationalized
or highly regulated. I just don't trust private industry to run a
serious grid...and, our current grid is not OK, it is in need of huge
amounts of capital to expand it. It's one the biggest, if not THE
biggest problem in Calfiornia right now with north-south flow
completely constrained. I do appreciate you comments, however.
David

Could part of the problem in California be
the result of government controls?

Don't compare the situation in California
with every state, some states do not have double
digit population growth, and are not 1100 miles
long.

And very few states have the environment
problems of Los Angeles County and other
locations that have mountains on three sides
and calm winds at times.

But most states don't have the potential
for solar that California has.

The best thing for people to do is install
a battery system, charge the batteries when rates
are cheap, and not use grid power when rates
are high.

The power grids all suffer from the local
distribution being in the air and near trees, that
can be fixed, many areas are slowly converting
to underground distribution so storms are not
as much of a problem.

But in any case, it isn't warmer temperatures
causing the grid problems, it is clashes between
warm and cold air, and differences in barometric
pressure.

Joe Fischer