Main Page | Report this Page
 
   
Science Forum Index  »  Energy - Hydrogen Forum  »  I designed a hydrogen car (runs on air, powered by large bat
Page 1 of 8    Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:25 pm
Guest
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm
Don W
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:59 pm
Guest
<gb6724@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1171913144.356884.101500@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

If this is a 4th grade science fair project, may I suggest a little more

critical thinking before reaching your conclusion? Water is already burned
hydrogen and it takes a lot more energy to 'unburn' it than the energy
contained in the unburned hydrogen. Of the energy contained in unburned
hydrogen, only a small fraction can be recovered as electricity. Of the
energy used for electrolysis, about half is lost as heat.

Learn about HHV and LHV as this may be the source of at least part of your
error. Also be careful not to mix units of power and units of energy
(Watt-hours are not the same thing as horsepower or Watts.) Also, if 90hp
is used for propulsion of the vehicle, then it is not available for making
electricity for electrolysis.

Don W.
Eeyore
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:08 pm
Guest
"gb6724@yahoo.com" wrote:

Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:32 pm
Guest
Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham

You don't believe it can run on air?
Bill Ward
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm
Guest
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:25:44 -0800, gb6724@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

Since you clearly labeled your writing as speculative, I'm assuming you
are posting in good faith, to the right-sounding news group.

Your ideas are not new, in the sense of trying to get energy from water.
When you read, "there is as much energy in the hydrogen obtained from a
gallon of water as there is in half a gallon of gasoline", it may be true,
but highly misleading. What is omitted is that extracting that much
hydrogen from water _always_ takes _more_ energy than is contained in a
half gallon of gasoline. There's no energy in the water, it had to come
from an external source. No ifs, ands, or buts, it had to come from
somewhere else. So trying to use hydrogen for an energy amplifier just
won't work. It winds up costing even more energy.

The other issue that often confuses folks unfamiliar with basic science is
the concept that adding a few steps to a process will somehow make things
work better. The opposite is almost always true. Simple is better.
There's a basic rule in physics - any time you change the form of energy,
you lose some of it as heat.

So when you take mechanical energy from an engine to turn a generator to
make electricity to charge a battery which electrolyses water to make
hydrogen to run your original engine, you've lost big time. For
openers, there's no energy source.

You are way ahead of the game simply burning gasoline in the engine to
start with. Trying to "improve" the efficiency by complicating the
process has the opposite effect. One of the regulars on the NG has
correctly called the scheme a "dynamic brake".

If you are actually interested in contributing to the field, you'll need
to learn a lot more basic science, starting with thoroughly understanding
the concept of energy, then the laws of thermodynamics. They're not hard:

1. "You can't win". (Energy cannot be created or destroyed.)

2. "You can't break even". (Entropy always increases.)

3. "It's the only game in town". (Applies to all closed systems.)

There are a lot of resources available that might be better suited to
educating yourself than this NG. There are so many scammers and looneys
around that regulars tend to get a mite testy at times. But honest
questions will usually be answered honestly.

Regards,

Bill Ward
Eeyore
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:12 pm
Guest
"gb6724@yahoo.com" wrote:

Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham

You don't believe it can run on air?

It can't.

Graham
Get a life
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:46 pm
Guest
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45DA11CF.6F19E187@hotmail.com...
Quote:


"gb6724@yahoo.com" wrote:

www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham



I agree he is.
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:51 pm
<gb6724@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1171913144.356884.101500@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm


You said:

What the car needs is a constant supply of electric energy for producing
hydrogen gas.



You proved that you are an idiot, it means you do not have constant electric
current to convert Water into Hydrogen. As I posted in this NG before you
cannot produce hydrogen freely, it cost 6 times you put into the conversion.
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:57 pm
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45DA20E2.3434890@hotmail.com...
Quote:


"gb6724@yahoo.com" wrote:

www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham

You don't believe it can run on air?

It can't.

Graham



Eeyore did not take into account the "Gas Power" is the main pushing power
for his hydrogen experiment... Probably 4% - 6% of hydrogen go into the
combustion chamber and he thought it was his main work.
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:59 pm
<theloneranger100@aol.com> wrote in message
news:sXpCh.3546$_73.2989@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Quote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45DA20E2.3434890@hotmail.com...


"gb6724@yahoo.com" wrote:

www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham

You don't believe it can run on air?

It can't.

Graham



Eeyore did not take into account the "Gas Power" is the main pushing power
for his hydrogen experiment... Probably 4% - 6% of hydrogen go into the
combustion chamber and he thought it was his main work.




sorry I meant this idiot >> gb6724@yahoo.com
Don Lancaster
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:05 pm
Guest
Bill Ward wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:25:44 -0800, gb6724@yahoo.com wrote:


www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm


Since you clearly labeled your writing as speculative, I'm assuming you
are posting in good faith, to the right-sounding news group.

Your ideas are not new, in the sense of trying to get energy from water.
When you read, "there is as much energy in the hydrogen obtained from a
gallon of water as there is in half a gallon of gasoline", it may be true,
but highly misleading. What is omitted is that extracting that much
hydrogen from water _always_ takes _more_ energy than is contained in a
half gallon of gasoline. There's no energy in the water, it had to come
from an external source. No ifs, ands, or buts, it had to come from
somewhere else. So trying to use hydrogen for an energy amplifier just
won't work. It winds up costing even more energy.

The other issue that often confuses folks unfamiliar with basic science is
the concept that adding a few steps to a process will somehow make things
work better. The opposite is almost always true. Simple is better.
There's a basic rule in physics - any time you change the form of energy,
you lose some of it as heat.

So when you take mechanical energy from an engine to turn a generator to
make electricity to charge a battery which electrolyses water to make
hydrogen to run your original engine, you've lost big time. For
openers, there's no energy source.

You are way ahead of the game simply burning gasoline in the engine to
start with. Trying to "improve" the efficiency by complicating the
process has the opposite effect. One of the regulars on the NG has
correctly called the scheme a "dynamic brake".

If you are actually interested in contributing to the field, you'll need
to learn a lot more basic science, starting with thoroughly understanding
the concept of energy, then the laws of thermodynamics. They're not hard:

1. "You can't win". (Energy cannot be created or destroyed.)

2. "You can't break even". (Entropy always increases.)

3. "It's the only game in town". (Applies to all closed systems.)

There are a lot of resources available that might be better suited to
educating yourself than this NG. There are so many scammers and looneys
around that regulars tend to get a mite testy at times. But honest
questions will usually be answered honestly.

Regards,

Bill Ward





http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse153.pdf

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:51 pm
Guest
On Feb 19, 3:12 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote:
"gb6...@yahoo.com" wrote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham

You don't believe it can run on air?

It can't.

Graham

I changed the introduction so you understand what this car is.
It runs on a battery. The battery is powered like a hybrid
car. A hybrid car is not a free energy car. Japanese haven't
figured out how to make hybrid cars free in terms of energy
yet.

www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:54 pm
Guest
On Feb 19, 1:59 pm, "Don W" <dontcal...@illcallu.net> wrote:
Quote:
gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1171913144.356884.101500@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...>www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

If this is a 4th grade science fair project, may I suggest a little more
critical thinking before reaching your conclusion? Water is already burned
hydrogen and it takes a lot more energy to 'unburn' it than the energy
contained in the unburned hydrogen. Of the energy contained in unburned
hydrogen, only a small fraction can be recovered as electricity. Of the
energy used for electrolysis, about half is lost as heat.

Learn about HHV and LHV as this may be the source of at least part of your
error. Also be careful not to mix units of power and units of energy
(Watt-hours are not the same thing as horsepower or Watts.) Also, if 90hp
is used for propulsion of the vehicle, then it is not available for making
electricity for electrolysis.

Don W.

There is no conclusion. This is a real commercial design for a
hydrogen
car. It may take days of study to understand this car, it is a thesis.

George
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:18 pm
Guest
Quote:
www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/new_hydrogen_car.htm

You're an idiot.

Graham

I agree he is.

Ideas are dangerous - Stalin. Work is mandatory - Stalin.
Orwell's factory is safety - Stalin. Ideas are for Stalin - Stalin.
Don Lancaster
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Guest
gb6724@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Japanese haven't
figured out how to make hybrid cars free in terms of energy
yet.

its the sushi.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
Page 1 of 8    Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:58 am