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Kumar
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:21 am
Guest
On Feb 18, 10:21 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
Quote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldlywrote:
neighbor Tim Shoppa (sho...@trailing-edge.com) wrote:
convicted neighbor "kumar" <lordshiva5...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
....
Insulin therapy has been shown to benefit the prognosis in patients
with type 2 diabetes, but its initiation and intensification is often
delayed through concerns about hypoglycemia and weight gain. In
addition, weight gain is linked to the pathophysiology of type 2
diabetes and contributes to the overall risk for adverse
cardiovascular outcomes. This article attempts to summarize this issue
and examine the options available for weight management.
Results
Unfortunately, the great benefits of insulin therapy may be
potentially undermined by weight gain. Weight gain is physiologically
and psychologically undesirable, especially in patients with diabetes
who are already overweight. The fear of weight gain with some
medications contributes to psychological insulin resistance, which may
discourage patients from commencing or following insulin regimens.
However, new diabetes treatments and lifestyle interventions can be
used to mitigate these
....
As such, in view of above quotes and other commonly indicated datas
about weight gain/obesity related to type2, how avoiding overeating
or
eating optimally or right eating is unjustified and contradicted in
diabetics2 and other metabolic related problems?

Whether a person is contradicted or his mentionings?

One basic problem with most insulin treatments is that the timing of
insulin into the bloodstream is not perfect.

For the type-2 diabetic, becoming insulin requiring is a bigger
problem because it indicates that the underlying metabolic syndrome
(MetS) has been going on for far too long (typically years).

So sometimes there is too much insulin, other times too little insulin
for the "optimal" diet. Optimal diet obviously will vary from person
to person.

The optimal amount will not vary from person to person, however.

How it can be possible?

By GOD's design.

Whether 2pounds of mixed/desired foods intake is sufficient and
optimal(covering need for all nutrients) in all diabetic and normal
people?

Yes.





Hypoglycemia is a risk.

Indeed it is more likely to kill a type-2 diabetic outright than
hyperglycemia.

As can be seen in a different thread in a.s.d,
some folks seem genuinely surprised that even though they are a Type 2
and have become well educated about insulin therapy and dosing and
timing, they can still encounter hypoglycemia while taking too much
insulin. In that particular thread I'd regard the OP as above average
in intelligence and diabetes knowledge - if you get the drift that
insulin therapy has difficulties even when you're trying hard to do it
right, you'd be right. That particular thread also illustrates how
trying too hard to do it right can lead to the rollercoaster. But it
also has great power and there are many aspects to making the therapy
be more flexible.

Traditionally the diet was re-arranged to accomodate the insulin. This
is largely blamed for the weight gain of both Type 1's and Type 2's on
insulin. In folks with IR the additional high insulin levels in the
blood is associated with a lot of the other problems you like to talk
about.

New insulin types and pumps have some promise to limit weight gain
while on insulin therapy but it remains a fact that weight gain is
statistically likely. Even with the most modern dosing methods there
is some weight gain due to insulin therapy. And this cannot be
attributed solely to insulin resistance, which makes the effect even
larger.

Weight gain in a type-2 diabetic comes from overeating.

Overeating arises from the false belief that "hunger is bad."

I am tempted to go all Carl Lydick on Chung's ass for all the stupid
crap he posts about that make it sound like there is a single easy
answer.

Eating less is simple but not easy.

Indeed, it is practically impossible for someone who is not aware of
how much s/he is eating to eat less. Only folks who know in the heart
of their souls that "hunger is good" even want to know how much they
are eating.

Yes, just telling that eat less or eat optimal or eat this and that,
may not be practical, but telling specific amounts can be. Moreover,
it can be difficult and impractical to manipulate and practice
specific nutrients based diets persistently for long time and it may
also not valid/optimal all the times. I think 2P is for the sake of
practical purpose, for to cover unknown defficiencies and for
simplicity in practicing....obisiously if it don't cause
defficiencies.

Where there is hunger there is no deficiency.
If hunger is still there after taking 2P, then?




Please ignore all the stuff he writes. There is some truth to
it but his intense focus on a single solution causes him to ignore the
real world.

It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully and ignore that
which is untruthful in this world.

Though demons are real, there is nothing meaningful about them because
they will forever remain satan's sock-puppets.

May reading the following help you and others to cure their MetS and
quite possibly their type-2 diabetes:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp

Angels and devils are two opposite sided entities to balance.
Sometimes one dominates other time other. Due to current practices, if
we are progressing towards our ultimate destructions/decrease, one can
think logically that devils are dominating due to previous excessive
dominance of angels prevailed.

It will be the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ, Who will prevail.

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhDhttp://EmoryCardiology.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Kumar
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:58 am
Guest
On Feb 18, 10:21 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
Quote:
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
neighbor Chris Malcolm wrote:
convicted neighbot Kumar wrote:

""The reviewed data suggest that US health care providers should
endorse the American Heart Association's and European diabetes
associations' recommendations that diabetic persons achieve and
maintain a BMI of 25 kg/m2. Weight management may be the most
important therapeutic task for most obese Type 2 diabetic
individuals.
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/5/331""

I hate these general recommendations based on averages.

A type-2 diabetic with a BMI of 30 would benefit from losing weight to
a BMI of 25 provided what is lost is visceral adipose tissue (VAT) and
not muscle.

Btw, taking 2pounds of mixed/desired foods is sufficient and optimal
in all diabetics and normal people?

Yes.

Will more and continual insulin's exposure either as a result of
persisting hyperglycemia(IR) or medicated cause a person with obesity
and VAT, difficult to lose weight and eat less?

No.

Whether decresed breakdown of energy stores with normal eatings can
result into obesity and VAT ?

Can non-usages/breakdown of energy stores persistintly cause some
disorder, if energy requirements are just met from glucose in food?
Quote:
Whether glycogen's defficiencies or impairment in its breakdown due
to more and continual insulin can cause hunger? (pls see other topic
Diabetic and glycogen)

No. Glycogen deficiency could cause a loss of appetite.

What does it mean:

"Hunger is a feeling experienced when the glycogen level of the liver
falls below a threshold, usually followed by a desire to eat. The
usually unpleasant feeling originates in the hypothalamus and is
released through receptors in the liver. Although an average nourished
human can survive about 50 days without food intake [1], the sensation
of hunger typically begins after several hours without eating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger

"Increased glycogen synthesis - insulin forces storage of glucose in
liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of
insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete
it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin which is
directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin

After a meal has been digested and glucose levels begin to fall,
insulin secretion is reduced, and glycogen synthesis stops. About four
hours after a meal, glycogen begins to be broken down to be converted
again to glucose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen "

In view of above, how body can use glycogen stores, if insulin
exposure is more and continual? Why under such stiuation, till insulin
is exposed and glycogen breakdown is impaired/resisted by insulin, one
can't get hunger due to this reason?

Quote:
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhDhttp://EmoryCardiology.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:25 pm
Guest
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Quote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldlywrote:
neighbor Tim Shoppa (sho...@trailing-edge.com) wrote:
convicted neighbor "kumar" <lordshiva5...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
....
Insulin therapy has been shown to benefit the prognosis in patients
with type 2 diabetes, but its initiation and intensification is often
delayed through concerns about hypoglycemia and weight gain. In
addition, weight gain is linked to the pathophysiology of type 2
diabetes and contributes to the overall risk for adverse
cardiovascular outcomes. This article attempts to summarize this issue
and examine the options available for weight management.
Results
Unfortunately, the great benefits of insulin therapy may be
potentially undermined by weight gain. Weight gain is physiologically
and psychologically undesirable, especially in patients with diabetes
who are already overweight. The fear of weight gain with some
medications contributes to psychological insulin resistance, which may
discourage patients from commencing or following insulin regimens.
However, new diabetes treatments and lifestyle interventions can be
used to mitigate these
....
As such, in view of above quotes and other commonly indicated datas
about weight gain/obesity related to type2, how avoiding overeating
or
eating optimally or right eating is unjustified and contradicted in
diabetics2 and other metabolic related problems?

Whether a person is contradicted or his mentionings?

One basic problem with most insulin treatments is that the timing of
insulin into the bloodstream is not perfect.

For the type-2 diabetic, becoming insulin requiring is a bigger
problem because it indicates that the underlying metabolic syndrome
(MetS) has been going on for far too long (typically years).

So sometimes there is too much insulin, other times too little insulin
for the "optimal" diet. Optimal diet obviously will vary from person
to person.

The optimal amount will not vary from person to person, however.

How it can be possible?

By GOD's design.

Whether 2pounds of mixed/desired foods intake is sufficient and
optimal(covering need for all nutrients) in all diabetic and normal
people?

Yes.

Hypoglycemia is a risk.

Indeed it is more likely to kill a type-2 diabetic outright than
hyperglycemia.

As can be seen in a different thread in a.s.d,
some folks seem genuinely surprised that even though they are a Type 2
and have become well educated about insulin therapy and dosing and
timing, they can still encounter hypoglycemia while taking too much
insulin. In that particular thread I'd regard the OP as above average
in intelligence and diabetes knowledge - if you get the drift that
insulin therapy has difficulties even when you're trying hard to do it
right, you'd be right. That particular thread also illustrates how
trying too hard to do it right can lead to the rollercoaster. But it
also has great power and there are many aspects to making the therapy
be more flexible.

Traditionally the diet was re-arranged to accomodate the insulin. This
is largely blamed for the weight gain of both Type 1's and Type 2's on
insulin. In folks with IR the additional high insulin levels in the
blood is associated with a lot of the other problems you like to talk
about.

New insulin types and pumps have some promise to limit weight gain
while on insulin therapy but it remains a fact that weight gain is
statistically likely. Even with the most modern dosing methods there
is some weight gain due to insulin therapy. And this cannot be
attributed solely to insulin resistance, which makes the effect even
larger.

Weight gain in a type-2 diabetic comes from overeating.

Overeating arises from the false belief that "hunger is bad."

I am tempted to go all Carl Lydick on Chung's ass for all the stupid
crap he posts about that make it sound like there is a single easy
answer.

Eating less is simple but not easy.

Indeed, it is practically impossible for someone who is not aware of
how much s/he is eating to eat less. Only folks who know in the heart
of their souls that "hunger is good" even want to know how much they
are eating.

Yes, just telling that eat less or eat optimal or eat this and that,
may not be practical, but telling specific amounts can be. Moreover,
it can be difficult and impractical to manipulate and practice
specific nutrients based diets persistently for long time and it may
also not valid/optimal all the times. I think 2P is for the sake of
practical purpose, for to cover unknown defficiencies and for
simplicity in practicing....obisiously if it don't cause
defficiencies.

Where there is hunger there is no deficiency.

If hunger is still there after taking 2P, then?

For someone who is healthy, yes.

"Hunger is good." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Quote:
Please ignore all the stuff he writes. There is some truth to
it but his intense focus on a single solution causes him to ignore the
real world.

It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully and ignore that
which is untruthful in this world.

Though demons are real, there is nothing meaningful about them because
they will forever remain satan's sock-puppets.

May reading the following help you and others to cure their MetS and
quite possibly their type-2 diabetes:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp

Angels and devils are two opposite sided entities to balance.
Sometimes one dominates other time other. Due to current practices, if
we are progressing towards our ultimate destructions/decrease, one can
think logically that devils are dominating due to previous excessive
dominance of angels prevailed.

It will be the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ, Who will prevail.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
kumar
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:04 am
Guest
On Feb 21, 4:25 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<ach...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
Quote:
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldlywrote:
neighbor Tim Shoppa (sho...@trailing-edge.com) wrote:
convicted neighbor "kumar" <lordshiva5...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
....
Insulin therapy has been shown to benefit the prognosis in patients
with type 2 diabetes, but its initiation and intensification is often
delayed through concerns about hypoglycemia and weight gain. In
addition, weight gain is linked to the pathophysiology of type 2
diabetes and contributes to the overall risk for adverse
cardiovascular outcomes. This article attempts to summarize this issue
and examine the options available for weight management.
Results
Unfortunately, the great benefits of insulin therapy may be
potentially undermined by weight gain. Weight gain is physiologically
and psychologically undesirable, especially in patients with diabetes
who are already overweight. The fear of weight gain with some
medications contributes to psychological insulin resistance, which may
discourage patients from commencing or following insulin regimens.
However, new diabetes treatments and lifestyle interventions can be
used to mitigate these
....
As such, in view of above quotes and other commonly indicated datas
about weight gain/obesity related to type2, how avoiding overeating
or
eating optimally or right eating is unjustified and contradicted in
diabetics2 and other metabolic related problems?

Whether a person is contradicted or his mentionings?

One basic problem with most insulin treatments is that the timing of
insulin into the bloodstream is not perfect.

For the type-2 diabetic, becoming insulin requiring is a bigger
problem because it indicates that the underlying metabolic syndrome
(MetS) has been going on for far too long (typically years).

So sometimes there is too much insulin, other times too little insulin
for the "optimal" diet. Optimal diet obviously will vary from person
to person.

The optimal amount will not vary from person to person, however.

How it can be possible?

By GOD's design.

Whether 2pounds of mixed/desired foods intake is sufficient and
optimal(covering need for all nutrients) in all diabetic and normal
people?

Yes.

Hypoglycemia is a risk.

Indeed it is more likely to kill a type-2 diabetic outright than
hyperglycemia.

As can be seen in a different thread in a.s.d,
some folks seem genuinely surprised that even though they are a Type 2
and have become well educated about insulin therapy and dosing and
timing, they can still encounter hypoglycemia while taking too much
insulin. In that particular thread I'd regard the OP as above average
in intelligence and diabetes knowledge - if you get the drift that
insulin therapy has difficulties even when you're trying hard to do it
right, you'd be right. That particular thread also illustrates how
trying too hard to do it right can lead to the rollercoaster. But it
also has great power and there are many aspects to making the therapy
be more flexible.

Traditionally the diet was re-arranged to accomodate the insulin. This
is largely blamed for the weight gain of both Type 1's and Type 2's on
insulin. In folks with IR the additional high insulin levels in the
blood is associated with a lot of the other problems you like to talk
about.

New insulin types and pumps have some promise to limit weight gain
while on insulin therapy but it remains a fact that weight gain is
statistically likely. Even with the most modern dosing methods there
is some weight gain due to insulin therapy. And this cannot be
attributed solely to insulin resistance, which makes the effect even
larger.

Weight gain in a type-2 diabetic comes from overeating.

Overeating arises from the false belief that "hunger is bad."

I am tempted to go all Carl Lydick on Chung's ass for all the stupid
crap he posts about that make it sound like there is a single easy
answer.

Eating less is simple but not easy.

Indeed, it is practically impossible for someone who is not aware of
how much s/he is eating to eat less. Only folks who know in the heart
of their souls that "hunger is good" even want to know how much they
are eating.

Yes, just telling that eat less or eat optimal or eat this and that,
may not be practical, but telling specific amounts can be. Moreover,
it can be difficult and impractical to manipulate and practice
specific nutrients based diets persistently for long time and it may
also not valid/optimal all the times. I think 2P is for the sake of
practical purpose, for to cover unknown defficiencies and for
simplicity in practicing....obisiously if it don't cause
defficiencies.

Where there is hunger there is no deficiency.

If hunger is still there after taking 2P, then?

For someone who is healthy, yes.
I asked, if hunger to take more food is there after taking 2P, what a

person should do? To eat more in view of hunger is good and
healthful?
Quote:
"Hunger is good." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.





Please ignore all the stuff he writes. There is some truth to
it but his intense focus on a single solution causes him to ignore the
real world.

It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully and ignore that
which is untruthful in this world.

Though demons are real, there is nothing meaningful about them because
they will forever remain satan's sock-puppets.

May reading the following help you and others to cure their MetS and
quite possibly their type-2 diabetes:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp

Angels and devils are two opposite sided entities to balance.
Sometimes one dominates other time other. Due to current practices, if
we are progressing towards our ultimate destructions/decrease, one can
think logically that devils are dominating due to previous excessive
dominance of angels prevailed.

It will be the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ, Who will prevail.

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhDhttp://EmoryCardiology.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:23 am
Guest
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Quote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
neighbor Chris Malcolm wrote:
convicted neighbot Kumar wrote:

""The reviewed data suggest that US health care providers should
endorse the American Heart Association's and European diabetes
associations' recommendations that diabetic persons achieve and
maintain a BMI of 25 kg/m2. Weight management may be the most
important therapeutic task for most obese Type 2 diabetic
individuals.
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/5/331""

I hate these general recommendations based on averages.

A type-2 diabetic with a BMI of 30 would benefit from losing weight to
a BMI of 25 provided what is lost is visceral adipose tissue (VAT) and
not muscle.

Btw, taking 2pounds of mixed/desired foods is sufficient and optimal
in all diabetics and normal people?

Yes.

Will more and continual insulin's exposure either as a result of
persisting hyperglycemia(IR) or medicated cause a person with obesity
and VAT, difficult to lose weight and eat less?

No.

Whether decresed breakdown of energy stores with normal eatings can
result into obesity and VAT ?

Obesity and VAT comes solely from overeating.

Quote:
Can non-usages/breakdown of energy stores persistintly cause some
disorder, if energy requirements are just met from glucose in food?

No.

Quote:
Whether glycogen's defficiencies or impairment in its breakdown due
to more and continual insulin can cause hunger? (pls see other topic
Diabetic and glycogen)

No. Glycogen deficiency could cause a loss of appetite.

What does it mean:

"Hunger is a feeling experienced when the glycogen level of the liver
falls below a threshold, usually followed by a desire to eat. The
usually unpleasant feeling originates in the hypothalamus and is
released through receptors in the liver. Although an average nourished
human can survive about 50 days without food intake [1], the sensation
of hunger typically begins after several hours without eating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger

False.

Quote:
"Increased glycogen synthesis - insulin forces storage of glucose in
liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of
insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete
it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin which is
directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin

After a meal has been digested and glucose levels begin to fall,
insulin secretion is reduced, and glycogen synthesis stops. About four
hours after a meal, glycogen begins to be broken down to be converted
again to glucose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen "

In view of above, how body can use glycogen stores, if insulin
exposure is more and continual?

Insulin resistance.

Quote:
Why under such stiuation, till insulin
is exposed and glycogen breakdown is impaired/resisted by insulin, one
can't get hunger due to this reason?

Hunger simply indicates that the stomach and the rest of the GI tract
is ready to receive and digest food.

"Hunger is good." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:24 pm
Guest
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Quote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldlywrote:
neighbor Tim Shoppa (sho...@trailing-edge.com) wrote:
convicted neighbor "kumar" <lordshiva5...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
....
Insulin therapy has been shown to benefit the prognosis in patients
with type 2 diabetes, but its initiation and intensification is often
delayed through concerns about hypoglycemia and weight gain. In
addition, weight gain is linked to the pathophysiology of type 2
diabetes and contributes to the overall risk for adverse
cardiovascular outcomes. This article attempts to summarize this issue
and examine the options available for weight management.
Results
Unfortunately, the great benefits of insulin therapy may be
potentially undermined by weight gain. Weight gain is physiologically
and psychologically undesirable, especially in patients with diabetes
who are already overweight. The fear of weight gain with some
medications contributes to psychological insulin resistance, which may
discourage patients from commencing or following insulin regimens.
However, new diabetes treatments and lifestyle interventions can be
used to mitigate these
....
As such, in view of above quotes and other commonly indicated datas
about weight gain/obesity related to type2, how avoiding overeating
or
eating optimally or right eating is unjustified and contradicted in
diabetics2 and other metabolic related problems?

Whether a person is contradicted or his mentionings?

One basic problem with most insulin treatments is that the timing of
insulin into the bloodstream is not perfect.

For the type-2 diabetic, becoming insulin requiring is a bigger
problem because it indicates that the underlying metabolic syndrome
(MetS) has been going on for far too long (typically years).

So sometimes there is too much insulin, other times too little insulin
for the "optimal" diet. Optimal diet obviously will vary from person
to person.

The optimal amount will not vary from person to person, however.

How it can be possible?

By GOD's design.

Whether 2pounds of mixed/desired foods intake is sufficient and
optimal(covering need for all nutrients) in all diabetic and normal
people?

Yes.

Hypoglycemia is a risk.

Indeed it is more likely to kill a type-2 diabetic outright than
hyperglycemia.

As can be seen in a different thread in a.s.d,
some folks seem genuinely surprised that even though they are a Type 2
and have become well educated about insulin therapy and dosing and
timing, they can still encounter hypoglycemia while taking too much
insulin. In that particular thread I'd regard the OP as above average
in intelligence and diabetes knowledge - if you get the drift that
insulin therapy has difficulties even when you're trying hard to do it
right, you'd be right. That particular thread also illustrates how
trying too hard to do it right can lead to the rollercoaster. But it
also has great power and there are many aspects to making the therapy
be more flexible.

Traditionally the diet was re-arranged to accomodate the insulin. This
is largely blamed for the weight gain of both Type 1's and Type 2's on
insulin. In folks with IR the additional high insulin levels in the
blood is associated with a lot of the other problems you like to talk
about.

New insulin types and pumps have some promise to limit weight gain
while on insulin therapy but it remains a fact that weight gain is
statistically likely. Even with the most modern dosing methods there
is some weight gain due to insulin therapy. And this cannot be
attributed solely to insulin resistance, which makes the effect even
larger.

Weight gain in a type-2 diabetic comes from overeating.

Overeating arises from the false belief that "hunger is bad."

I am tempted to go all Carl Lydick on Chung's ass for all the stupid
crap he posts about that make it sound like there is a single easy
answer.

Eating less is simple but not easy.

Indeed, it is practically impossible for someone who is not aware of
how much s/he is eating to eat less. Only folks who know in the heart
of their souls that "hunger is good" even want to know how much they
are eating.

Yes, just telling that eat less or eat optimal or eat this and that,
may not be practical, but telling specific amounts can be. Moreover,
it can be difficult and impractical to manipulate and practice
specific nutrients based diets persistently for long time and it may
also not valid/optimal all the times. I think 2P is for the sake of
practical purpose, for to cover unknown defficiencies and for
simplicity in practicing....obisiously if it don't cause
defficiencies.

Where there is hunger there is no deficiency.

If hunger is still there after taking 2P, then?

For someone who is healthy, yes.

I asked, if hunger to take more food is there after taking 2P, what a
person should do?

Find good things to do instead of things to eat.

Quote:
To eat more in view of hunger is good and
healthful?

To eat the optimal amount to become ever hungrier and healthier is
wiser.

Quote:
"Hunger is good." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
kumar
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:29 pm
Guest
On Feb 22, 6:24 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<ach...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
Quote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldlywrote:
neighbor Tim Shoppa (sho...@trailing-edge.com) wrote:
convicted neighbor "kumar" <lordshiva5...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
....
Insulin therapy has been shown to benefit the prognosis in patients
with type 2 diabetes, but its initiation and intensification is often
delayed through concerns about hypoglycemia and weight gain. In
addition, weight gain is linked to the pathophysiology of type 2
diabetes and contributes to the overall risk for adverse
cardiovascular outcomes. This article attempts to summarize this issue
and examine the options available for weight management.
Results
Unfortunately, the great benefits of insulin therapy may be
potentially undermined by weight gain. Weight gain is physiologically
and psychologically undesirable, especially in patients with diabetes
who are already overweight. The fear of weight gain with some
medications contributes to psychological insulin resistance, which may
discourage patients from commencing or following insulin regimens.
However, new diabetes treatments and lifestyle interventions can be
used to mitigate these
....
As such, in view of above quotes and other commonly indicated datas
about weight gain/obesity related to type2, how avoiding overeating
or
eating optimally or right eating is unjustified and contradicted in
diabetics2 and other metabolic related problems?

Whether a person is contradicted or his mentionings?

One basic problem with most insulin treatments is that the timing of
insulin into the bloodstream is not perfect.

For the type-2 diabetic, becoming insulin requiring is a bigger
problem because it indicates that the underlying metabolic syndrome
(MetS) has been going on for far too long (typically years).

So sometimes there is too much insulin, other times too little insulin
for the "optimal" diet. Optimal diet obviously will vary from person
to person.

The optimal amount will not vary from person to person, however.

How it can be possible?

By GOD's design.

Whether 2pounds of mixed/desired foods intake is sufficient and
optimal(covering need for all nutrients) in all diabetic and normal
people?

Yes.

Hypoglycemia is a risk.

Indeed it is more likely to kill a type-2 diabetic outright than
hyperglycemia.

As can be seen in a different thread in a.s.d,
some folks seem genuinely surprised that even though they are a Type 2
and have become well educated about insulin therapy and dosing and
timing, they can still encounter hypoglycemia while taking too much
insulin. In that particular thread I'd regard the OP as above average
in intelligence and diabetes knowledge - if you get the drift that
insulin therapy has difficulties even when you're trying hard to do it
right, you'd be right. That particular thread also illustrates how
trying too hard to do it right can lead to the rollercoaster. But it
also has great power and there are many aspects to making the therapy
be more flexible.

Traditionally the diet was re-arranged to accomodate the insulin. This
is largely blamed for the weight gain of both Type 1's and Type 2's on
insulin. In folks with IR the additional high insulin levels in the
blood is associated with a lot of the other problems you like to talk
about.

New insulin types and pumps have some promise to limit weight gain
while on insulin therapy but it remains a fact that weight gain is
statistically likely. Even with the most modern dosing methods there
is some weight gain due to insulin therapy. And this cannot be
attributed solely to insulin resistance, which makes the effect even
larger.

Weight gain in a type-2 diabetic comes from overeating.

Overeating arises from the false belief that "hunger is bad."

I am tempted to go all Carl Lydick on Chung's ass for all the stupid
crap he posts about that make it sound like there is a single easy
answer.

Eating less is simple but not easy.

Indeed, it is practically impossible for someone who is not aware of
how much s/he is eating to eat less. Only folks who know in the heart
of their souls that "hunger is good" even want to know how much they
are eating.

Yes, just telling that eat less or eat optimal or eat this and that,
may not be practical, but telling specific amounts can be. Moreover,
it can be difficult and impractical to manipulate and practice
specific nutrients based diets persistently for long time and it may
also not valid/optimal all the times. I think 2P is for the sake of
practical purpose, for to cover unknown defficiencies and for
simplicity in practicing....obisiously if it don't cause
defficiencies.

Where there is hunger there is no deficiency.

If hunger is still there after taking 2P, then?

For someone who is healthy, yes.

I asked, if hunger to take more food is there after taking 2P, what a
person should do?

Find good things to do instead of things to eat.

To eat more in view of hunger is good and
healthful?

To eat the optimal amount to become ever hungrier and healthier is
wiser.

"Hunger is good." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.
Thanks.
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhDhttp://EmoryCardiology.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:31 pm
Guest
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Quote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor Kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
convicted neighbor kumar wrote:
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

<snip>

Quote:
Eating less is simple but not easy.

Indeed, it is practically impossible for someone who is not aware of
how much s/he is eating to eat less. Only folks who know in the heart
of their souls that "hunger is good" even want to know how much they
are eating.

Yes, just telling that eat less or eat optimal or eat this and that,
may not be practical, but telling specific amounts can be. Moreover,
it can be difficult and impractical to manipulate and practice
specific nutrients based diets persistently for long time and it may
also not valid/optimal all the times. I think 2P is for the sake of
practical purpose, for to cover unknown defficiencies and for
simplicity in practicing....obisiously if it don't cause
defficiencies.

Where there is hunger there is no deficiency.

If hunger is still there after taking 2P, then?

For someone who is healthy, yes.

I asked, if hunger to take more food is there after taking 2P, what a
person should do?

Find good things to do instead of things to eat.

To eat more in view of hunger is good and
healthful?

To eat the optimal amount to become ever hungrier and healthier is
wiser.

"Hunger is good." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Thanks.

You are welcome.

All thanks and praises belong to GOD, Whom I love with all my heart,
soul, mind, and strength.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com


Quote:
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhDhttp://EmoryCardiology.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
 
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