anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?


A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/16/science/space/16shuttle.html?_r=2&ref=science&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

By JOHN SCHWARTZ, NY Times

Published: December 16, 2006

Photo caption: Capt. Robert L. Curbeam Jr. is set to make repairs today
outside the International Space Station, as he did on Tuesday. In 2001,
he became exposed to leaking ammonia while making repairs during a
spacewalk.



As he leads his third spacewalk on the shuttle Discovery's mission to
the International Space Station, one word is likely to be on Capt. Robert
L. Curbeam Jr.'s mind today: ammonia.

The foul-smelling chemical is used in the space station's cooling
systems because its low freezing point is well suited to the chill of
space.

But ammonia is also highly toxic, and it was at the center of a
frightening 2001 incident in which ammonia leaked from a cooling line and
coated Captain Curbeam's spacesuit.

It is a little-told story of cool competence and quick reaction under
pressure, and also a reminder, as the nation plans to return astronauts
to the Moon, that space is a tough neighborhood.

anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?

anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?

"Jim Oberg" <jameseoberg@houston.rr.com> wrote:

anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?

Massive problems - but resigned acceptance. 'Toxic' has become an
extremely overused word.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Derek Lyons" <fairwater@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45851866.54029015@news.supernews.com...
"Jim Oberg" <jameseoberg@houston.rr.com> wrote:

anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?

Massive problems - but resigned acceptance. 'Toxic' has become an
extremely overused word.


Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you that
there is no question about its toxicity.

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm

"George" <george@yourservice.com> wrote:

"Derek Lyons" <fairwater@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45851866.54029015@news.supernews.com...
"Jim Oberg" <jameseoberg@houston.rr.com> wrote:

anybody else but me have problems with the terminology in the caption?

Massive problems - but resigned acceptance. 'Toxic' has become an
extremely overused word.


Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell you
that
there is no question about its toxicity.

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm

Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for
years.

(Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are
not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.)

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I can
see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a major
city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it be."
Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

George wrote:

Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I
can see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in
a major city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just
leave it be." Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

I'll also add that phosphate fertilizer is *routinely* contaminated
with a material (cadmium) that does qualify as 'toxic'. There's some
concern about the long term effect of cadmium buildup in soils.

Paul

Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I can
see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a major
city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it be."
Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

Only a ignorant asshole would assume that because I believe a word is
misused that I don't recognize when a material is dangerous.

But you are more intent on making some obscure point than in engaging
your brain, so be a good lad and fuck off.

Derek Lyons wrote:
[...]
Only a ignorant asshole would assume that because I believe a word is
misused that I don't recognize when a material is dangerous.

But you are more intent on making some obscure point than in engaging
your brain, so be a good lad and fuck off.

Derek, perhaps you could be presuaded to make your point in a positive
way. What is a better description of the danger(s) of ammonia than
"toxic"?

It also appears that the value of ammonia as a fertlizer depend on it
being sufficiently diluted by the time that the plants in question are
getting it in their uptake. A quick look suggests this is done by
applying it at seed planting time in a thin spray, and allowing
weathering to dilute it.

Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the properties
of ammonia. The point is that a broad spectrum of words has been
replaced by the single word 'toxic'- which has resulted in a certain
amount of desensitizing by its overuse, and a certain amount of hype
regarding materials that are only mildly problematic.

Phosgene is toxic, Sarin is toxic, ammonia is merely (very) dangerous.

I was referring to the disposal method for contaminated soil cited in
the MSDS George linked - if ammonia was truly toxic, then the disposal
method would have been along the lines of "put the soil in barrels and
contact the Appropriate Authorities", not "use as fertilizer".