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| Danny Deger |
 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:05 pm |
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"Herb Schaltegger" <herb.schaltegger@gmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C1F0ADA7007119F0B042494F@enews.newsguy.com...
Quote: On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:07:27 -0600, Danny Deger wrote
(in article <45cb4ac0$0$503$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>):
Even a doctor can only hold you for 72 hours -- it takes two doctors
actually. After that it requires a judge.
Danny Deger
That may vary a great deal, depending on the specifics of each
jurisdiction's
laws regarding mental competency.
Good point. This is the law in Texas. See the following:
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/hs.toc.htm
Scroll down to Title 7: Mental Health and Mental Retardation.
Danny Deger |
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| AustinMN |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:37 pm |
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"Danny Deger" wrote:
Quote: I am currently suing NASA for
compensation under the Equal Opportunity System for the way they mishandled
my mental disability and the Texas board that licenses NASA's mental health
providers has finally had a hearing on their misconduct. I do not know the
outcome of these hearings.
And if you print off this post and show it to your lawyer, he may just
quit your case. I am sure he has told you not to discuss the case
qwith anyone; publishing details of it worldwide is not what he had in
mind.
Austin |
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| Derek Lyons |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:34 pm |
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"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Just to let you know, everyone that has seen my documentation agrees NASA
screwed me in 1999.
Of course - all they've seen is *your* documentation.
I'd be rather more interested in seeing *all* the documentation.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
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| Andre Lieven |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:47 pm |
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John Doe (jdoe@doe.org) writes:
Quote: Steven L. wrote:
AFAIK, no doctor has officially diagnosed Lisa Nowak as "crazy." If
they had, she would have been held for observation in a mental hospital.
You forgot the word "yet". It may be one of her lawyer's arguments that she
was mentally deranged and not in full control of her brain and thus
declared mentally insane.
Yes, many lawyers argue *against* the facts. How is this news ?
Quote: The fact that the alleged victim had a court order to keep Nowak away from
her means that Nowak had had that obsession for some time. This was not
something that came out without warning. One could argue that the obsession
grew to a point where Nowak was no longer in control of her emotions and
went nuts.
Its amazing how stupid some people are, in ASSuming that if a *woman* does
what appears to them to be a " crazy thing ", that that alone is some kind
of " proof ", admissable in a court of *law* even, that she is medically
certifyable.
Sheesh.
Quote: Where NASA can be faulted is not providing a large vat of jello in which
they would have put the two females in bikinis and let them fight it off.
(in front of an audience of astronauts and other nasa employees).
Youre eight, right ?
Andre |
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| robert casey |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:56 pm |
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Quote: I understand your point, and I don't take rehashing this lightly. I first
rejected the idea when a friend of mine mentioned my story might be news
worthy because it shows serious flaws in the mental health system at NASA.
But when the second one called and said the same, I had to reconsider. I
still don't know if I am going to contact the press on this. My goal would
be to strengthen my case in front of the Equal Opertunity system. There is
a good chance I can get a little over $300K.
Many years ago I had an incredibly bad boss at Bell Labs. He did
everything he could to cause me to fail and provide no support at all.
Word had it that this guy shafted others in the past. Well, eventually
I was forced to quit. However, a coworker who was less severely shafted
by him, and I, complained to a person in upper management about this
guy, Eventually he got laid off, likely because of our complaints
(though it probably doesn't show in any documentation). That was enough
for me. |
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| robert casey |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:59 pm |
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Quote:
The fact that the alleged victim had a court order to keep Nowak away
from her means that Nowak had had that obsession for some time. This was
not something that came out without warning. One could argue that the
obsession grew to a point where Nowak was no longer in control of her
emotions and went nuts.
NASA probably would never know of such court orders. She's not likely
to call up personnel and tell them about it.... |
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| Bill Baker |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:40 pm |
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On 2007-02-07 22:07:30 -0800, "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> said:
Quote: AFAIK, no doctor has officially diagnosed Lisa Nowak as "crazy." If
they had, she would have been held for observation in a mental hospital.
I don't think the full terms of her release on bail have been made
public. I would bet that she was released into Lindsay's custody with
the proviso that she be walked from the Houston airport right into a
secured mental health facility. I imagine that's where she is right
now. Her commital may be nominally voluntary but I bet if she tries to
leave until the docs have cleared her, there'll be a deputy outside the
front door waiting to take her into custody and ship her back to
Orlando.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:07 pm |
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"Derek Lyons" <fairwater@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45cd6d21.1849059687@news.supernews.com...
Quote: "Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just to let you know, everyone that has seen my documentation agrees NASA
screwed me in 1999.
Of course - all they've seen is *your* documentation.
If you know of a web site or FTP server I will gladly post all of the
documentation. If you ever see it you will find my docuemtation is mostly
exepts writen by NASA officials and the medical staff. It is really amazing
that NASA has such little regard for the law they document there own
violations of it. For example they clearly document they were in with the
judge to not give me my hearing and not give me an attorney. They also
clearly documented they knew my mental health was deteriating and they did
nothing to help me. I can email the one document on their relationship with
Judge Burwell if you wish. If anyone else would like to see it let me know.
I will gladly email it to you.
Danny Deger
Quote:
I'd be rather more interested in seeing *all* the documentation.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
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| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:18 pm |
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"robert casey" <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:d8Myh.22141$yx6.10731@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
snip
Quote:
Many years ago I had an incredibly bad boss at Bell Labs. He did
everything he could to cause me to fail and provide no support at all.
Word had it that this guy shafted others in the past. Well, eventually I
was forced to quit. However, a coworker who was less severely shafted by
him, and I, complained to a person in upper management about this guy,
Eventually he got laid off, likely because of our complaints (though it
probably doesn't show in any documentation). That was enough for me.
Unfortunately at NASA upper management is part of the problem. I made my
complaints to them and they not only ignored them, but took strong action to
silence me. NASA has a long history of abusive bosses. Some the stories
are now legends at NASA. A boss can throw coke cans, throw chairs, rage
using the f word, etc. This behavior is acceptable if you are in
management. Many people that routinely rage at their workers have been
promoted to high level positions.
In my case I was pretty much locked into my job due to my family situation.
If I could have left easily, I would have. I have a theory that bully
bosses combined with a job where it is not easy to leave is a major cause of
employees going postal. I will admit my mind snapped, but I am not a
violent person, so I didn't go postal.
Danny Deger |
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| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:24 pm |
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"robert casey" <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:jbMyh.22142$yx6.16975@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Quote:
The fact that the alleged victim had a court order to keep Nowak away
from her means that Nowak had had that obsession for some time. This was
not something that came out without warning. One could argue that the
obsession grew to a point where Nowak was no longer in control of her
emotions and went nuts.
NASA probably would never know of such court orders. She's not likely to
call up personnel and tell them about it....
Such orders are often served at work via NASA security. In my case I was
served with divorce papers at work and NASA was told they were restraining
orders to protect my children from me. I had it straightened out but in
addition to the other lies NASA told my doctors in 1999, they told them my
wife had restraining orders against me. Summary: it is very possible the
papers were served at work and NASA knew about them.
Danny Deger |
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| Bill Baker |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:25 pm |
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On 2007-02-08 08:07:27 -0800, "Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> said:
Quote: Even a doctor can only hold you for 72 hours -- it takes two doctors
actually. After that it requires a judge.
Don't assume that the law for involuntary commital is the same
everywhere else as it is in Texas. In California they can only hold
you 24 hours on a 5950. In Washington State, though, it's three days
and it only takes the judgement of a qualified mental health official
to do so. My mom was a county mental health officer in a rural WA
county and was authorized to order involuntary lockups. She was an
MSW, not an MD.
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| Bill Baker |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:33 pm |
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On 2007-02-08 14:24:17 -0800, "Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> said:
Quote: Such orders are often served at work via NASA security...
I'm sorry, I just can't believe this. No non-goverment employer would
allow their security personnel to be used to serve papers in a private
legal matter. I can't believe that NASA is different just because
they're a government agency.
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| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:34 pm |
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"Bill Baker" <wabobo3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170970900_517@news-west.n...
Quote: On 2007-02-07 22:07:30 -0800, "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
said:
AFAIK, no doctor has officially diagnosed Lisa Nowak as "crazy." If they
had, she would have been held for observation in a mental hospital.
I don't think the full terms of her release on bail have been made public.
I would bet that she was released into Lindsay's custody with the proviso
that she be walked from the Houston airport right into a secured mental
health facility. I imagine that's where she is right now. Her commital
may be nominally voluntary but I bet if she tries to leave until the docs
have cleared her, there'll be a deputy outside the front door waiting to
take her into custody and ship her back to Orlando.
You are correct about release from a hospital where you have been
volentarilly admitted. If you ask to go home, the docs have 4 hours to
release you or tell you they are going to keep you. They have 24 hours to
do a more thourough exam. The doctor must then release you or automatically
set up a hearing before a judge. This is the law in Texas. Here is the
complete text of the Texas law on the subject.
§ 572.004. DISCHARGE. (a) A voluntary patient is
entitled to leave an inpatient mental health facility in accordance
with this section after a written request for discharge is filed
with the facility administrator or the administrator's designee.
The request must be signed, timed, and dated by the patient or a
person legally responsible for the patient and must be made a part
of the patient's clinical record. If a patient informs an employee
of or person associated with the facility of the patient's desire to
leave the facility, the employee or person shall, as soon as
possible, assist the patient in creating the written request and
present it to the patient for the patient's signature.
(b) The facility shall, within four hours after a request
for discharge is filed, notify the physician responsible for the
patient's treatment. If that physician is not available during
that period, the facility shall notify any available physician of
the request.
(c) The notified physician shall discharge the patient
before the end of the four-hour period unless the physician has
reasonable cause to believe that the patient might meet the
criteria for court-ordered mental health services or emergency
detention.
(d) A physician who has reasonable cause to believe that a
patient might meet the criteria for court-ordered mental health
services or emergency detention shall examine the patient as soon
as possible within 24 hours after the time the request for discharge
is filed. The physician shall discharge the patient on completion
of the examination unless the physician determines that the person
meets the criteria for court-ordered mental health services or
emergency detention. If the physician makes a determination that
the patient meets the criteria for court-ordered mental health
services or emergency detention, the physician shall, not later
than 4 p.m. on the next succeeding business day after the date on
which the examination occurs, either discharge the patient or file
an application for court-ordered mental health services or
emergency detention and obtain a written order for further
detention. The physician shall notify the patient if the physician
intends to detain the patient under this subsection or intends to
file an application for court-ordered mental health services or
emergency detention. A decision to detain a patient under this
subsection and the reasons for the decision shall be made a part of
the patient's clinical record.
(e) If extremely hazardous weather conditions exist or a
disaster occurs, the physician may request the judge of a court that
has jurisdiction over proceedings brought under Chapter 574 to
extend the period during which the patient may be detained. The
judge or a magistrate appointed by the judge may by written order
made each day extend the period during which the patient may be
detained until 4 p.m. on the first succeeding business day. The
written order must declare that an emergency exists because of the
weather or the occurrence of a disaster.
(f) The patient is not entitled to leave the facility if
before the end of the period prescribed by this section:
(1) a written withdrawal of the request for discharge
is filed; or
(2) an application for court-ordered mental health
services or emergency detention is filed and the patient is
detained in accordance with this subtitle.
(g) A plan for continuing care shall be prepared in
accordance with Section 574.081 for each patient discharged. If
sufficient time to prepare a continuing care plan before discharge
is not available, the plan may be prepared and mailed to the
appropriate person within 24 hours after the patient is discharged.
(h) The patient or other person who files a request for
discharge of a patient shall be notified that the person filing the
request assumes all responsibility for the patient on discharge.
(i) On receipt of a written request for discharge from a
patient admitted under Section 572.002(3)(B) who is younger than 18
years of age, a facility shall consult with the patient's parent,
managing conservator, or guardian regarding the discharge. If the
parent, managing conservator, or guardian objects in writing to the
patient's discharge, the facility shall continue treatment of the
patient as a voluntary patient.
Added by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 76, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1991.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 107, § 6.46, eff. Aug. 30,
1993; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 705, § 4.02, eff. Aug. 30, 1993;
Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1000, § 4, eff. June 20, 2003; Acts
2005, 79th Leg., ch. 48, § 1, eff. May 17, 2005.
§ 572.005. APPLICATION FOR COURT-ORDERED TREATMENT. (a)
An application for court-ordered mental health services may not be
filed against a patient receiving voluntary inpatient services
unless:
(1) a request for release of the patient has been filed
with the facility administrator; or
(2) in the opinion of the physician responsible for
the patient's treatment, the patient meets the criteria for
court-ordered mental health services and:
(A) is absent from the facility without
authorization;
(B) is unable to consent to appropriate and
necessary psychiatric treatment; or
(C) refuses to consent to necessary and
appropriate treatment recommended by the physician responsible for
the patient's treatment and that physician completes a certificate
of medical examination for mental illness that, in addition to the
information required by Section 574.011, includes the opinion of
the physician that:
(i) there is no reasonable alternative to
the treatment recommended by the physician; and
(ii) the patient will not benefit from
continued inpatient care without the recommended treatment.
(b) The physician responsible for the patient's treatment
shall notify the patient if the physician intends to file an
application for court-ordered mental health services.
Added by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 76, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1991.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 903, § 1.04, eff. Aug. 30,
1993. |
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| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:39 pm |
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"Bill Baker" <wabobo3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170973609_1005@news-west.n...
Quote: On 2007-02-08 08:07:27 -0800, "Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> said:
Even a doctor can only hold you for 72 hours -- it takes two doctors
actually. After that it requires a judge.
Don't assume that the law for involuntary commital is the same everywhere
else as it is in Texas. In California they can only hold you 24 hours on
a 5950. In Washington State, though, it's three days and it only takes
the judgement of a qualified mental health official to do so. My mom was
a county mental health officer in a rural WA county and was authorized to
order involuntary lockups. She was an MSW, not an MD.
Good point. See my other post for a link to the Texas law. But she is in
Texas now and under Texas law for these maters. It is also interesting to
note a law enforcement officer can on their own decide they are dealing with
a mental health case and take the person to a hosipital for evaluation and
the possibility of involentary admission/commitment. This bypasses the
judge for the initial process to take the person in. This happens fairly
often.
Danny Deger
Quote:
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| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:44 pm |
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"Bill Baker" <wabobo3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170974094_1006@news-west.n...
Quote: On 2007-02-08 14:24:17 -0800, "Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> said:
Such orders are often served at work via NASA security...
I'm sorry, I just can't believe this. No non-goverment employer would
allow their security personnel to be used to serve papers in a private
legal matter. I can't believe that NASA is different just because they're
a government agency.
You are correct. I misspoke a bit. For my divorce case I was told by
management to report to the security office at 4:00pm. When I got there the
security officer intoduced me the Harris County Constable. The Constable
did the actually serving. But NASA security was in on the process to get me
into their office and was well aware of what was going on. My managment was
also informed. Bottom line is, in my case, NASA was well aware I had been
served. Of course, if you are served at home, NASA might not find out.
Danny Deger
Quote:
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