So, do you mean you don't know how the eye works and how environment
causes myopia? Are you really an optometrist?

Would it clarify anything for you to know that muscarinic agonists play a
part?

No, it would not. And we have not reached this part yet. This is only
the beginning of the discussion.

Is it illegal to discuss the causes of myopia in this forum? Just
wondering.

dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote

Could you please explain the environmental modulation part? How does
the environment cause myopia? Thanks.

You know, if your own textbooks didn't cover any of this, there's a pretty
good article on wikipedia, under the topic "myopia."

-MT

dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote

So, do you mean you don't know how the eye works and how environment
causes myopia? Are you really an optometrist?

Three questions, three answers: somewhat, no, and yes.

Would it clarify anything for you to know that muscarinic agonists play a
part?

No, it would not. And we have not reached this part yet. This is only
the beginning of the discussion.

No you were asking the *how* the environment causes myopia. Nobody knows.

Is it illegal to discuss the causes of myopia in this forum? Just
wondering.

You want simplistic answers for something nobody understands completely.

If you don't want to discuss M4 receptors in scleral collagen, then you
aren't really interested in "how."

-MT

Could you please list all of the causes of axial myopia, all of
the reasons that axial elongation happens?

Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.

Let's discuss how the eye works. So, Dr.G, please KINDLY share your
view on how the environment causes myopia since both Mike Tyner and you
believe that environment does contribute to myopia development.

So, Dr.G, please KINDLY explain in detail how the environment causes
myopia.

and you DON'T KNOW how the environment causes myopia. I thought
your textbook cover it.

No you were asking the *how* the environment causes myopia. Nobody knows.

Again, I thought your textbook cover it. And I thought they also teach
that at your optometry school. I wonder what they teach at your
optometry school?

I think you are trying to sidetrack to something else. I am asking how
the environment (prolonged close work) causes myopia, which mean how
does prolonged close work cause the eyeball to change.

dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
I think you are trying to sidetrack to something else. I am asking how
the environment (prolonged close work) causes myopia, which mean how
does prolonged close work cause the eyeball to change.

Nobody knows for sure. Well, maybe you, but you aren't telling.

-MT

the correlation between near work and myopia is simply that--- an
observed correlation in large population studies that show that people
who wear myopic prescriptions tend to be involved in activities that
involve lots of close work. not all myopes do near work, and lots of
people who do lots of near work are NOT myopes but the observation is
simply a statistical correlation. but if you are an eye doc you should
know that.

there are no studies that show what it is about close work that causes
myopia to develop. anyones "theory" or "guess" as to what causes it is
irrelevant to a practitioner who needs to know the proven facts-- on
HUMANS.

when the correlation was first demonstrated, then many vision
researchers tested the notion that increased ciliary muscle tone or
accommodation must be the cause. this has been tested in numerous
published studies that have been reviewed in this forum ad nauseum for
the last few years. these studies all have shown that reducing or
eliminating accommodation by using reading glasses or bifocals, or
having myopes remove their glasses to read, have NO EFFECT on
development of myopia. so much for the accommodations theory.

now a current theory is that individuals who have an inaccurate visual
response to near work (accommodative lag with resulting retinal blur,
near-point esophores) are the ones who develop myopia. this makes
sense because their also is a clear genetic component to myopia
development as well. that theory is being tested at the present time.

so NO ONE, including YOU, knows what causes myopia development. what
we know is WHAT DOES NOT INFLUENCE myopia development and that includes
plus readers, bifocals, overcorrection with minus, undercorrection with
minus, and gas permeable contact lenses.

anyone who claims they "know" what the true cause is and is treating
patients based upon their supposed knowledge should be stripped of
their license to practice and is a potential hazard to the public
health.

================================

It's not that I'm not telling,

dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:

Let's discuss how the eye works. So, Dr.G, please KINDLY share your
view on how the environment causes myopia since both Mike Tyner and you
believe that environment does contribute to myopia development.

So, Dr.G, please KINDLY explain in detail how the environment causes
myopia.

I never said that the environment causes myopia. I don't believe that
the environment causes myopia.

dr.sea...@yahoo.com> wrote
Dear DrG and Mike Tyner,
Could both of you please list all of the causes of axial myopia, all of
the reasons that axial elongation happens?

Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.

dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Dear DrG,
Mike Tyner shared his view. What about you?
Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
Thanks.

I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

Now, PRETTY PLEASE explain how you can reverse or slow the progression
of myopia.

DrG

I will, my dearest DrG, I will, I promise, however, if the discussion
doesn't begin, there is no use to go on. But I really hope we do
continue and get to the end.

It's not that I'm not telling, it is just that I was just about to
start the discussion and everyone seems to want me to shut up or stop
the discussion and someone said that I am a potential hazard to the
public health.

Who wants you to shut up? We just want you to start talking about your

dr.sea...@yahoo.com wrote:
It's not that I'm not telling, it is just that I was just about to
start the discussion and everyone seems to want me to shut up or stop
the discussion and someone said that I am a potential hazard to the
public health.

Who wants you to shut up? We just want you to start talking about your
theory of myopia prevention, something that seems to have eluded the
rest of us.

Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.

I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

so NO ONE, including YOU, knows what causes myopia development. what
we know is WHAT DOES NOT INFLUENCE myopia development and that includes
plus readers, bifocals, overcorrection with minus, undercorrection with
minus, and gas permeable contact lenses.

anyone who claims they "know" what the true cause is and is treating
patients based upon their supposed knowledge should be stripped of
their license to practice and is a potential hazard to the public
health.

I never said that the environment causes myopia. I don't believe that
the environment causes myopia.

I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

I may die of cancer one day, thanks to physicians who obviously want to
keep the cure a secret from me.

DrG

Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the cancer (<<myopia>>)
literature. The contribution of diet (<<environment (working up close, prolonged
close work)>>) is small, and the contribution of sulfuric acid (<<corrective lenses>>) is nil.

I believe that it is genetically based with dietary (<<environmental>>) modulation.

It doesn't contribute much. So far, neither have you.

it has NO EFFECT on development of cancer (<<myopia>>). so much for the dietary
(<<accommodations>>) theory.

so NO ONE, including YOU, knows what causes cancer (<<myopia>>) development. what
we know is WHAT DOES NOT INFLUENCE cancer (<<myopia>>) development and that > includes .........
(<<plus readers, bifocals, overcorrection with minus, undercorrection with
minus, and gas permeable contact lenses.>>)

anyone who claims they "know" what the true cause is and is treating
patients based upon their supposed knowledge should be stripped of
their license to practice and is a potential hazard to the public
health.

I never said that the diet (<<environment>>) causes cancer (<<myopia>>). I don't believe > that the diet (<<environment>>) causes cancer (<<myopia>>).

dr.sea...@yahoo.com wrote:

I will, my dearest DrG, I will, I promise, however, if the discussion
doesn't begin, there is no use to go on. But I really hope we do
continue and get to the end.

So, begin it, or don't. You are the one who professes to have
something to teach me. So, get to it.

Drg

dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
Thanks.

I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:

I am 20/15 now. I guess that mean it's cured. And this is also true.

Now, we'll begin our discussion......

S.Seagal

Could you please explain the environmental modulation part?

Dear DrG,

Dr. Leukoma wrote:
dr.sea...@yahoo.com wrote:
It's not that I'm not telling, it is just that I was just about to
start the discussion and everyone seems to want me to shut up or stop
the discussion and someone said that I am a potential hazard to the
public health.

Who wants you to shut up? We just want you to start talking about your
theory of myopia prevention, something that seems to have eluded the
rest of us.

When I ask about the causes of myopia in another thread, the answer I
got were:
Mike Tyner wrote:
Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.

Dr. Leukoma wrote:
I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

I guess these two answers means environment is a cause but small.

And then in the beginning of this thread I wrote:

Dear Mike Tyner, DrG, and all optometrists,

Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia?

Then Mike Tyner's answer changed from "small" to "It doesn't contribute
much"

And then p.clarkii said it has "NO EFFECT on development of myopia. so
much for the accommodations theory"

p.clarkii also wrote:
so NO ONE, including YOU, knows what causes myopia development. what
we know is WHAT DOES NOT INFLUENCE myopia development and that includes
plus readers, bifocals, overcorrection with minus, undercorrection with
minus, and gas permeable contact lenses.

anyone who claims they "know" what the true cause is and is treating
patients based upon their supposed knowledge should be stripped of
their license to practice and is a potential hazard to the public
health.

Dear DrG, What does p.clarkii mean by that?

And then you wrote:
I never said that the environment causes myopia. I don't believe that
the environment causes myopia.

which is completely different from:
I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

Dear DrG,
what do all these mean? From "small" to "not much" to "NO EFFECT"
......

Dr. Leukoma wrote:
I may die of cancer one day, thanks to physicians who obviously want to
keep the cure a secret from me.

DrG

In order to cure cancer, we have to first know what causes cancer.
Here it goes:

Dear fellow doctors,

What is the causes of cancer?

DrA:
Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the cancer (<<myopia>>)
literature. The contribution of diet (<<environment (working up close, prolonged
close work)>>) is small, and the contribution of sulfuric acid (<<corrective lenses>>) is nil.

DrB:
I believe that it is genetically based with dietary (<<environmental>>) modulation.

Dear fellow doctors:
Please explain how diet causes cancer?

DrA:
It doesn't contribute much. So far, neither have you.

DrC:
it has NO EFFECT on development of cancer (<<myopia>>). so much for the dietary
(<<accommodations>>) theory.

so NO ONE, including YOU, knows what causes cancer (<<myopia>>) development. what
we know is WHAT DOES NOT INFLUENCE cancer (<<myopia>>) development and that > includes .........
(<<plus readers, bifocals, overcorrection with minus, undercorrection with
minus, and gas permeable contact lenses.>>)

anyone who claims they "know" what the true cause is and is treating
patients based upon their supposed knowledge should be stripped of
their license to practice and is a potential hazard to the public
health.

DrB:
I never said that the diet (<<environment>>) causes cancer (<<myopia>>). I don't believe > that the diet (<<environment>>) causes cancer (<<myopia>>).

==================================

Incidentally, I had stage 4 cancer more than three years ago. I think
it's cured. At least the Doctors said it is. I changed my diet
completely, since then. This is true. Also, I was myopic before, and
I am 20/15 now. I guess that mean it's cured. And this is also true.

Now, we'll begin our discussion......

S.Seagal

There are many types of cancers and many theories of myopia. Which
theory of myopia explains your success in eliminating it?

DrG