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Science Forum Index » Medicine - Vision Forum » The Causes of Myopia
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| Guest |
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:23 pm |
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Mike Tyner wrote:
Quote: dr.sea...@yahoo.com> wrote
Dear DrG and Mike Tyner,
Could both of you please list all of the causes of axial myopia, all of
the reasons that axial elongation happens?
Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.
Dr. Leukoma wrote:
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Dear DrG,
Mike Tyner shared his view. What about you?
Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
Thanks.
I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.
Dear Mike Tyner, DrG, and all optometrists,
Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
S.Seagal |
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| Mike Tyner |
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:57 pm |
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<dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
Quote: Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
It doesn't contribute much.
So far, neither have you.
-MT |
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| Neil Brooks |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:00 am |
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Mike Tyner wrote:
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
It doesn't contribute much.
So far, neither have you.
Amen. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:14 am |
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Mike Tyner wrote:
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
It doesn't contribute much.
Dear Mike Tyner,
As little as it does, I am still very very very interested. Please
share it here. Please share your view here. Only then can I share the
"Myopia Control" method that really
works with all of you. Thank you very much.
Quote: So far, neither have you.
I am getting there, I promise. Please be patient. When we get there,
you will be extremely happy if you are the type of optometrist who
wants to solve myopia problems (axial elongation, retinal detachments,
etc.) in this world.
S.Seagal |
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| Neil Brooks |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:17 am |
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dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote: Mike Tyner wrote:
dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
It doesn't contribute much.
Dear Mike Tyner,
As little as it does, I am still very very very interested. Please
share it here. Please share your view here. Only then can I share the
"Myopia Control" method that really
works with all of you. Thank you very much.
So far, neither have you.
I am getting there, I promise. Please be patient. When we get there,
you will be extremely happy if you are the type of optometrist who
wants to solve myopia problems (axial elongation, retinal detachments,
etc.) in this world.
I presume you're also sitting on the infamous 200mpg carburetor? |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:31 am |
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the correlation between near work and myopia is simply that--- an
observed correlation in large population studies that show that people
who wear myopic prescriptions tend to be involved in activities that
involve lots of close work. not all myopes do near work, and lots of
people who do lots of near work are NOT myopes but the observation is
simply a statistical correlation. but if you are an eye doc you should
know that.
there are no studies that show what it is about close work that causes
myopia to develop. anyones "theory" or "guess" as to what causes it is
irrelevant to a practitioner who needs to know the proven facts-- on
HUMANS.
when the correlation was first demonstrated, then many vision
researchers tested the notion that increased ciliary muscle tone or
accommodation must be the cause. this has been tested in numerous
published studies that have been reviewed in this forum ad nauseum for
the last few years. these studies all have shown that reducing or
eliminating accommodation by using reading glasses or bifocals, or
having myopes remove their glasses to read, have NO EFFECT on
development of myopia. so much for the accommodations theory.
now a current theory is that individuals who have an inaccurate visual
response to near work (accommodative lag with resulting retinal blur,
near-point esophores) are the ones who develop myopia. this makes
sense because their also is a clear genetic component to myopia
development as well. that theory is being tested at the present time.
so NO ONE, including YOU, knows what causes myopia development. what
we know is WHAT DOES NOT INFLUENCE myopia development and that includes
plus readers, bifocals, overcorrection with minus, undercorrection with
minus, and gas permeable contact lenses.
anyone who claims they "know" what the true cause is and is treating
patients based upon their supposed knowledge should be stripped of
their license to practice and is a potential hazard to the public
health.
================================
dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote: Mike Tyner wrote:
dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
It doesn't contribute much.
Dear Mike Tyner,
As little as it does, I am still very very very interested. Please
share it here. Please share your view here. Only then can I share the
"Myopia Control" method that really
works with all of you. Thank you very much.
So far, neither have you.
I am getting there, I promise. Please be patient. When we get there,
you will be extremely happy if you are the type of optometrist who
wants to solve myopia problems (axial elongation, retinal detachments,
etc.) in this world.
S.Seagal |
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| Dan Abel |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:32 pm |
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In article <1167057099.500886.114520@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
p.clarkii@gmail.com wrote:
Quote: the correlation between near work and myopia is simply that--- an
observed correlation in large population studies that show that people
who wear myopic prescriptions tend to be involved in activities that
involve lots of close work. not all myopes do near work, and lots of
people who do lots of near work are NOT myopes but the observation is
simply a statistical correlation. but if you are an eye doc you should
know that.
there are no studies that show what it is about close work that causes
myopia to develop. anyones "theory" or "guess" as to what causes it is
irrelevant to a practitioner who needs to know the proven facts-- on
HUMANS.
I am convinced, based on anecdotal evidence with a sample size of one,
that in fact myopia causes close work. What else are you going to do if
you can't see at distance?
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Anybody can put a "dr." in front of their name on the internet. Anybody
can change their name to "seagal" on the internet. It doesn't always
mean that they have a license to practice medicine in the real world. |
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| Dan Abel |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:35 pm |
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In article <PhIjh.35401$B42.7024@newsfe12.phx>,
Neil Brooks <neil0502@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: I presume you're also sitting on the infamous 200mpg carburetor?
You are out of touch with reality. It's up to 400mpg.
:-)
Besides, when is the last time you've seen a new car with a carburetor? |
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| Dr. Leukoma |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:40 pm |
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dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Could you please explain in detail how the environment (working up
close, prolonged close work) causes myopia? Thank you very much.
Please refer to this paper:
A Unifying Theory of Refractive Error Development
GEORGE K. HUNG, KENNETH J. CIUFFREDA
Bulletin of Mathematical Biology (2000) 62, 1087-1108
These two authors discuss the neuromodulators that control sensitivity
to retinal defocus, as it relates to contrast. Hung and Ciuffreda
invoke a time-sensitive function involving a change in retinal defocus.
Other researchers are investigating the quality of retinal defocus in
the parafoveal area as being a stimulus for axial elongation, based
upon the findings that neuromodulation seems to occur elsewhere in the
retina.
Which way do you lean, doctor?
DrG |
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| Dr. Leukoma |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:23 pm |
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Hung and Ciuffreda still believe that genetic based axial growth is the
PRIMARY cause of myopia. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:54 pm |
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Dr. Leukoma wrote:
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Just to confirm, what is the success rate for myopia control in your
office?
It's difficult to say how much worse the myopes in my practice would
have gotten without my intervention because I don't treat one eye and
use the other for a control, treat one group and not the other, etc.
What would you do if you know of a myopia control method that really
works?
It it was safe, efficacious, and practical to use, then I would employ
it. If it involves putting small children into helmets with plus
lenses in front of their eyes 24/7, then I would defer.
Yes, it is safe, efficacious, and practical to use. No helmets are
used. I solve myopia problem (axial elongation, etc.) with glasses, not helmets.
Inquiring minds wish to know.
You will know it. I am going to share it with you.
Quote:
I don't regard myself as being a dogmatic person, and if such a method
was presented and backed by sound science, then I would embrace it.
But, I happen to believe that we are indeed on the cusp of having such
a method(s), and I think that this is a great time to be an
optometrist.
DrG
You are right, DrG, it really is a great time to be an optometrist.
And I really enjoy solving myopia problems (eyeball elongation, retinal
detachment, etc.) instead of creating more myopia problems.
Mike Tyner wrote:
Quote: dr.sea...@yahoo.com> wrote
Dear DrG and Mike Tyner,
Could both of you please list all of the causes of axial myopia, all of
the reasons that axial elongation happens?
Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.
Dr. Leukoma wrote:
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com wrote:
Dear DrG,
Mike Tyner shared his view. What about you?
Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
Thanks.
I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.
Dear DrG,
I am not interested in what Hung and Ciuffreda believe. And I am not
only interested in the PRIMARY cause of myopia, but I am interested in
all of the causes of myopia. And you wrote "I believe that it is
genetically based with environmental modulation."
Since this is a discussion forum, let's discuss it
The Reál Bev wrote:
Quote:
WELCOME TO THE SCI.MED.VISION NEWSGROUP
The purpose of this newsgroup is to discuss issues related to
eye health and vision care from a scientific viewpoint.
Issues for discussion include (but are not limited to): how
the eye works, vision problems and how they may be corrected,
eye health concerns, how they happen and how they may be
remedied, as well as items related to new research and
associated findings.
Let's discuss how the eye works. So, Dr.G, please KINDLY share your
view on how the environment causes myopia since both Mike Tyner and you
believe that environment does contribute to myopia development.
Even though Mike Tyner wrote "It doesn't contribute much.", it does not
matter. Since the environment is a cause and since this is a
discussion forum and since your "Inquiring minds wish to know" the
method of solving myopia problems (axial elongation, etc.) with
glasses, not helmets, so, LET'S DISCUSS IT.
So, Dr.G, please KINDLY explain in detail how the environment causes
myopia.
I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my heart.
S.Seagal
Dr. Leukoma wrote:
Quote: Hung and Ciuffreda still believe that genetic based axial growth is the
PRIMARY cause of myopia. |
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| Neil Brooks |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:17 pm |
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Your unilateral approach to "discussion" grows tiresome.
Maybe it's just me.... |
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| Mike Tyner |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:24 pm |
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<dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
Quote: So, Dr.G, please KINDLY explain in detail how
the environment causes myopia.
Why do you think we know?
Would it clarify anything for you to know that muscarinic agonists play a
part?
-MT |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:54 pm |
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Dear Mike, DrG, William Stacy, p.clarkii, and all optometrists,
Mike Tyner wrote:
Quote: dr.seagal@yahoo.com> wrote
So, Dr.G, please KINDLY explain in detail how
the environment causes myopia.
Why do you think we know?
Because all of you are optometrists who are really really smart, who
have finished your education in optometry school, who really really
know how the eye works. So, please share it with me. Please teach me
how the eye works. Please explain how the environment causes myopia
since you wrote "The contribution of environment (working up close,
prolonged close work) is small" which means you admit that it is a
factor even though you later wrote "It doesn't contribute much" as if
you are trying to hide something
Quote: Why do you think we know?
So, do you mean you don't know how the eye works and how environment
causes myopia? Are you really an optometrist?
Quote: Would it clarify anything for you to know that muscarinic agonists play a
part?
-MT
No, it would not. And we have not reached this part yet. This is only
the beginning of the discussion.
Is it illegal to discuss the causes of myopia in this forum? Just
wondering.
Thank you all in advance for teaching me how the eye works, and how the
environment causes myopia.
Sincerely,
S.Seagal |
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| Neil Brooks |
| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:12 pm |
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Moving ever-so-surely from tiresome to condescending, sarcastic, and
patronizing.
Gee. What a cliffhanger. |
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