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Science Forum Index » Language Translation Forum » Catalan and Nationalism
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| Edward Hennessey |
 Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:09 pm |
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| Peter Wells |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:54 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
<replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
Quote: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,1917
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Above is a link to an interesting article in today's Times.
Anyone also curious about what the French would call "sapes" may
also search the www.latimes.com website for another illuminating
piece on the practice of sartorial excess in the Congo.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
<replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
Quote: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,1917
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Above is a link to an interesting article in today's Times.
Anyone also curious about what the French would call "sapes" may
also search the www.latimes.com website for another illuminating
piece on the practice of sartorial excess in the Congo.
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that reference led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape", but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed a name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in African French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
only one p in my real address / un seul p dans ma véritable adresse |
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| Michèle |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:32 am |
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il se trouve que Peter Wells a formulé :
ngo.
Quote:
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that reference led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape", but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed a name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
Quote:
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in African French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
Sape, in French, can also mean "clothes" in slang.
ex avec le verbe : "Tu es bien sapé aujourd'hui !" |
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| Peter Wells |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:37 pm |
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On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:32:56 +0100, Michèle
<Bondmyrtillenospam@ôteryahoo.fr> wrote:
Quote: il se trouve que Peter Wells a formulé :
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,1917
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
ngo.
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that reference led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape", but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed a name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in African French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
Sape, in French, can also mean "clothes" in slang.
ex avec le verbe : "Tu es bien sapé aujourd'hui !"
Quite right, that was mentioned in the article concerned. I personally
would use it only in the plural, but slang is highly variable.
The name of the society I believe was a tongue-in-cheek acronym to
suit the fashion.
Another memory concerning the dress fanaticism of Zaîre as it then
was: it has been suggested that the sapeurs were a form of political
protest. While this may seem far-fetched, the dictator Mobutu would
only be seen in public wearing a rather elegant kind of traditional
tunic, similar to the Nehru jacket, and known as an "abacost", short
for "à bas le costume !" (down with European-style suits !); so the
sapeurs were indeed to some extent defying official policy.
The inventiveness of Francophone Africa's language is a source of
perpetual wonderment to the Metropolitan French, constrained as they
are by the Académie !
only one p in my real address / un seul p dans ma véritable adresse |
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| Edward Hennessey |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:38 pm |
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Peter Wells <ppwellstra@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:9b9an29nf8fpjjakp55f7klt0u7bi9enhi@4ax.com...
Quote: On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,191
7
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Above is a link to an interesting article in today's Times.
Anyone also curious about what the French would call "sapes"
may
also search the www.latimes.com website for another
illuminating
piece on the practice of sartorial excess in the Congo.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,191
7
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Above is a link to an interesting article in today's Times.
Anyone also curious about what the French would call "sapes"
may
also search the www.latimes.com website for another
illuminating
piece on the practice of sartorial excess in the Congo.
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that reference
led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape",
but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed a
name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in African
French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
PW:
I looked further under a +sape +congo +someone +(clothes OR
fashion) search string
and found some popular and some more academic commentary on the
topic which apparently has been the object of some study. It
wasn't clear to me, in measly support of the author of the piece,
whether my desultory reading had gone far enough to discredit the
possibility which is implicated in your last sentence that these
bon vivants had possibly
not adopted the stylization sape from the acronym. Actually, the
whole thing is tres triste
and very human.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey |
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| Edward Hennessey |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:39 pm |
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Michèle <Bondmyrtillenospam@ôteryahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:mn.2a787d6ce25ddcd6.31924@teryahoo.fr...
Quote: il se trouve que Peter Wells a formulé :
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,1917
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
ngo.
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that
reference led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape",
but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed
a name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in
African French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
Sape, in French, can also mean "clothes" in slang.
ex avec le verbe : "Tu es bien sapé aujourd'hui !"
Missy:
The word "ambianceurs" was worth the price of the morning paper.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey |
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| Michèle |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:44 pm |
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Edward Hennessey a exposé le 05/12/2006 :
Quote:
ex avec le verbe : "Tu es bien sapé aujourd'hui !"
Missy:
The word "ambianceurs" was worth the price of the morning paper.
Oui, it's true !
Quote:
Regards,
Edward Hennessey |
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| Edward Hennessey |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:51 pm |
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Edward Hennessey <replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote in message
Quote: Anyone also curious about what the French would call "sapes"
may
also search the www.latimes.com website for another
illuminating
piece on the practice of sartorial excess in the Congo.
"Sapient" is noteworthy in English for having a default
definitive irony in most circumstances unless otherwise
qualified. "Homo sap" is a literary phrase whose likely ironic
and unkind meaning defies my fullest recollection at the moment.
The English "sap" is, of course, a standard epithet for a
wooden-headed fool. Whether any of these terms have lively
counterparts in French which may play against "sape", the French
will know better.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey |
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| OJ |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:48 pm |
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Peter Wells a écrit :
Quote: On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:32:56 +0100, Michèle
Bondmyrtillenospam@ôteryahoo.fr> wrote:
il se trouve que Peter Wells a formulé :
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,1917
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
ngo.
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that reference led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape", but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed a name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in African French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
Sape, in French, can also mean "clothes" in slang.
ex avec le verbe : "Tu es bien sapé aujourd'hui !"
Quite right, that was mentioned in the article concerned. I personally
would use it only in the plural, but slang is highly variable.
The name of the society I believe was a tongue-in-cheek acronym to
suit the fashion.
Another memory concerning the dress fanaticism of Zaîre as it then
was: it has been suggested that the sapeurs were a form of political
protest. While this may seem far-fetched, the dictator Mobutu would
only be seen in public wearing a rather elegant kind of traditional
tunic, similar to the Nehru jacket, and known as an "abacost", short
for "à bas le costume !" (down with European-style suits !); so the
sapeurs were indeed to some extent defying official policy.
The inventiveness of Francophone Africa's language is a source of
perpetual wonderment to the Metropolitan French, constrained as they
are by the Académie !
only one p in my real address / un seul p dans ma véritable adresse
Yes you're right, slang is highly variable. We actually can say : "il
met toute sa thune dans les sapes" or "il met toutes ses thunes dans la
sape" with exactly the same meaning... He is very well dressed but he'll
leave you alone with the bill.
OJ |
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| cantueso |
| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:00 am |
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Edward Hennessey wrote:
Quote: Michèle <Bondmyrtillenospam@ôteryahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:mn.2a787d6ce25ddcd6.31924@teryahoo.fr...
il se trouve que Peter Wells a formulé :
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:09:22 GMT, "Edward Hennessey"
replyaddress-nonono@isp.com> wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-babel4dec04,1,1917
994.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
ngo.
I noted one slight error in one of the articles that
reference led me
to: the character reportedly referred to himself as a "sape",
but he
is in fact a "sapeur". The people involved derisively assumed
a name
that also means "sapper, military engineer".
The "society of leisure lovers and elegant persons" in
African French
is the Société des Ambianceurs et Personnes Elégantes - SAPE.
Sape, in French, can also mean "clothes" in slang.
ex avec le verbe : "Tu es bien sapé aujourd'hui !"
Missy:
The word "ambianceurs" was worth the price of the morning paper.
The first of your links does not work anymore, but even so (without
understanding the context) I meant to applaud your idea that a word
might be worth the price of a morning paper.
Quote:
Regards,
Edward Hennessey |
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