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Science Forum Index » Geology - Satellite Navigation Forum » REALLY concerned about ETE vs ETA on Garmin 96C
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| Jarod (the puppy) |
 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:30 pm |
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Guest
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(Oh, sorry the C key is a bit dicky.)
I loaned my mate my 96C and he found a very concerning problem with
it when flying.
This problem has now appeared a couple of times - though the first
time was just put down to not reading the numbers correctly.
Flying along with the route page the ETE times were shown.
Just left YPMQ going north. It was about 12:22 we gather, but here's
where it gets interesting:
ETE ETA
YPMQ
(time now) 12:22
YKMP 4:16 12:27 ok
DRO 31:26 12:54 ok
YLIS 01:29 13:53 Huh?
DRO to YLIS...
REAL problem!
In reality he arrived closer to the ETA time, but how is the GPS
getting the ETE?
We've tried to get in touh with Garmin for help, but at best we get
what I think is lip service from their "asia marketing" people who
want the track log.
The other time which it happened was another long trip from Wagga to
Bendigo. Unfortunately he didn't take piccies of the GPS's two time
sets.
Anyone - please?
--
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Thanks.....
Jarod |
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| peter |
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:43 pm |
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Jarod (the puppy) wrote:
Quote: Just left YPMQ going north. It was about 12:22 we gather, but here's
where it gets interesting:
ETE ETA
YPMQ
(time now) 12:22
YKMP 4:16 12:27 ok
DRO 31:26 12:54 ok
YLIS 01:29 13:53 Huh?
DRO to YLIS...
REAL problem!
I don't have a 96C, but I'm not sure I see a problem above. Looks
like the ETE times are all referenced from the current location at
YPMQ at about 12:22. So it'll take just over 4 minutes to get to YKMP
at 12:27, a little over half an hour to get to DRO at 12:54, and about
an hour and a half to get to YLIS at 13:53.
On my GPS, the display distinguishes between times shown as
hrs:minutes vs. minutes:seconds in that the seconds are shown in a
smaller font - don't know how it's done on the 96C. |
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| Jarod (the puppy) |
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:04 pm |
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"p" == "peter" writes:
Slight update to this story too:
After a lot of digging around, we found the ORIGINAL photos from the
digital camera.
They were taken at about 11:44, not 12:22. So the whole set of ETE
times are off. Oh, I also didn't mean he was at YPMQ when those times
were given. He had left and was enroute. Just doing time calc's
while flying and noticed the "errors".
'Tis a great worry.
<:-/
p> Jarod (the puppy) wrote:
p> > Just left YPMQ going north. It was about 12:22 we gather, but
p> > here's where it gets interesting:
p>
p> > ETE ETA
p> > YPMQ
p> > (time now) 12:22
p> > YKMP 4:16 12:27 ok
p> > DRO 31:26 12:54 ok
p> > YLIS 01:29 13:53 Huh?
p> >
p> >
p> >
p> > DRO to YLIS...
p> >
p> >
p> > REAL problem!
p>
p> I don't have a 96C, but I'm not sure I see a problem above. Looks
p> like the ETE times are all referenced from the current location at
p> YPMQ at about 12:22. So it'll take just over 4 minutes to get to
p> YKMP at 12:27, a little over half an hour to get to DRO at 12:54,
p> and about an hour and a half to get to YLIS at 13:53.
p>
p> On my GPS, the display distinguishes between times shown as
p> hrs:minutes vs. minutes:seconds in that the seconds are shown in a
p> smaller font - don't know how it's done on the 96C.
p>
--
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Thanks.....
Jarod |
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| John |
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:51 pm |
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"Jarod (the puppy)" wrote
Quote: Slight update to this story too:
After a lot of digging around, we found the ORIGINAL photos from the
digital camera.
They were taken at about 11:44, not 12:22. So the whole set of ETE
times are off. Oh, I also didn't mean he was at YPMQ when those times
were given. He had left and was enroute. Just doing time calc's
while flying and noticed the "errors".
'Tis a great worry.
Could it be that the time on the camera is off? DST in Australia now, so
perhaps the camera hasn't been adjusted?
I believe peter is correct in interpreting the GPSr:
Port Macquarie to YKMP 4 minutes 16 seconds
Port Macquarie to DRO 31 minutes 26 seconds
Port Macquarie to YLIS 1 HOUR 29 MINUTES
regards,
John |
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| Jarod (the puppy) |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:49 am |
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"J" == "John" writes:
Well that is a very valid question/thought.
Thing is that if the time is wrong (no on summer time) then it would
be an hour SLOW, not fast.
So the time would have been 12:44. That would be kind of impossible,
as I hadn't got to YKMP.
Update on that. Ok, I really goofed with that "fact". The camera's
clock is about 40 mins slow. So, given 11:44 the time would of been
about 12:20 - which would make sense. Just left YPMQ checking the
next leg's times.
I'm trying to dig up the GPS track log too for confirmation, but alas
I know that it won't tell me when that data was taken. I should of
taken a shot of the lat/long, distances and GPS time too!
Next time.
Got the flight log from my mate. Details follow:
YPMQ: Time out 12:12 - ok so that kind of kills the 11:44 part.
YKMP: (overfly) :27
DRO: (Overfly) :57
YLIS: 14:05
Now, as he had just left YPMQ the final track taken is moot as he
didn't quite go to DRO but cut in a bit to the east.
That is beside the point. The problem is that just after leaving
Port' the ETE and ETA times didn't add up.
As I may of mentioned the ETA times were more correct than the ETE
times.
Yes, I agree with how the times may be interpreted - the difference
between HH:MM and MM:SS where HOURS have a leading 0 if less than 10.
However after looking at the photos again, BOTH numbers have leading
0's on the numbers.
Now another intersting point:
ETE: 04:16
31:26
01:29
TOTAL: 01:49
Ok, let's look at this new point.
4:16 (as minutes) + 31:26 (as minutes) = 35:42 + 1:29 (as hours) =
4:Well, more than 1 hour 49 minutes.
J> Could it be that the time on the camera is off? DST in Australia
J> now, so perhaps the camera hasn't been adjusted?
J>
J> I believe peter is correct in interpreting the GPSr:
J>
J> Port Macquarie to YKMP 4 minutes 16 seconds
J> Port Macquarie to DRO 31 minutes 26 seconds
J> Port Macquarie to YLIS 1 HOUR 29 MINUTES
J>
J> regards,
J> John
J>
J>
--
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Thanks.....
Jarod |
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| peter |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:57 pm |
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Jarod (the puppy) wrote:
Quote: "J" == "John" writes:
That is beside the point. The problem is that just after leaving
Port' the ETE and ETA times didn't add up.
As both John and I have tried to point out, the times are *not*
inconsistent if the ETE is indicating the total time enroute to each
of the designated locations from the current spot. You indicated:
YKMP 4:16 12:27 ok
DRO 31:26 12:54 ok
YLIS 01:29 13:53 Huh?
So let's assume the current time was 12:23:03, then:
adding the 4min, 16 sec. gives an ETA at YKMP of 12:27:19
adding the 31min, 26sec gives an ETA at DRO of 12:54:29
adding the 1HOUR, 29MINUTES, ??sec. gives an ETA at YLIS of up to
13:52:32 (if the ?? is really 29 seconds).
Note that those ETAs all agree perfectly with the ones you cite above
(12:27, 12:54, and 13:53) when rounded to the nearest minute.
Quote:
As I may of mentioned the ETA times were more correct than the ETE
Since they agree, they are both equally correct (or incorrect). The
actual ETA/ETE times may certainly vary due to course changes, winds
encountered, speed changes, etc.
Quote: Ok, let's look at this new point.
4:16 (as minutes) + 31:26 (as minutes) = 35:42 + 1:29 (as hours) =
4:Well, more than 1 hour 49 minutes.
No need to add them if the ETE in each case is already the total time
needed to get from your current position to each respective
destination.
Quote: J> I believe peter is correct in interpreting the GPSr:
J
J> Port Macquarie to YKMP 4 minutes 16 seconds
J> Port Macquarie to DRO 31 minutes 26 seconds
J> Port Macquarie to YLIS 1 HOUR 29 MINUTES |
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| Jarod (the puppy) |
| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:09 am |
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"p" == "peter" writes:
Appologies to both you and John,
I didn't understand what was meant.
Since then I have also done MORE asking and have now had it explained
that the ETE time is cumulative and not point to point.
Maybe my fault for not knowing this "point" but the manual doesn't
really explain it and my previous GPS - also from Garmin - did
declare ETE times are point to point.
I guess it was an interesting leasson for me/us to learn.
--
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Thanks.....
Jarod |
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