CO2's warming is not uniform, just as predicted 110 years ag

Main Page | Report this Page

Science Forum Index » Geology - Meteorology Forum » CO2's warming is not uniform, just as predicted 110 years ag

Page 1 of 6 Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Author

Message

Roger Coppock

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:56 am

Guest

In another thread, Skeptic wrote:

Quote:

No.. Global warming implies a slow and constant warming over
the whole globe.

The above statement is DEFINITELY NOT TRUE!

CO2 forced global warming theory,
as set out 110 years ago by Arrhenius, predicts:

-- more initial warming at the high numbered latitudes than the
Tropics,

-- more warming in the Northern Hemisphere than the Southern, and

-- more warming on land than in the sea,

-- more warming in dry deserts than humid places,

-- more warming in winter than in summer, and

-- more warming at night than the day.

In the 110 years since, these predictions have all come true.

If the entire planet showed "a slow and constant warming over
the whole globe," then one would have to reject greenhouse
gases as a cause of the warming.

Reference:
Arrhenius, Prof. Svante. "On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air
upon the Temperature of the Ground." The London, Edinburgh, and
Dublin Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science 5th Series.
Vol. 41. No. 251. April 1896: pp. 237-276.

Bawana

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:33 pm

Guest

Roger Coppock wrote:

Quote:

snip

Roger Coppock

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:06 am

Guest

Bawana wrote:

Quote:

Roger Coppock wrote:
snip

crickets

Yes, that's what happens with you post real science here.

Graham Peter Davis

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:39 am

Guest

Roger Coppock wrote:

Quote:

Bawana wrote:
Roger Coppock wrote:
snip

crickets

Yes, that's what happens with you post real science here.

Never mind, Roger, keep up the good work.

Graham

The Ghost In The Machine

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:27 pm

Guest

In sci.environment, Bawana
<mrbawana2u@yahoo.com>
wrote
on 20 Jan 2007 18:33:24 -0800
<1169346804.560086.13120@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:

Quote:

Roger Coppock wrote:
snip

crickets

There are a fair number of issues regarding global warming
(in particular, it could lead to *colder* winters in
some locales, as one gets more precipitation -- snow),
but responses like the above are hardly illuminating. :-)

Of course, the biggest issue is: what to do about it?
Also, there's a tradeoff: one simple way of dealing with
global warming is to jack up interest rates so that the
global economy crashes, throwing almost everyone in the
US out of work, decreasing road traffic, and shutting
down industries and power plants as people fail to pay
essential service bills.

Clearly, this isn't the most palatable of solutions.
Other solutions are even more drastic: as "Wargames" puts
it, "global thermonuclear war". (And AFAICT there still
are no winners. Lots of losers, but no winners. There is
the benefit, if one can call it that, of "nuclear winter".)

Or one can genetically alter the 1918 flu virus [*] (the
essentials have already been islated and tested on
macaque monkeys and mice) to make it even more lethal,
then spray it on such things as toilet seats, handles,
and drinking fountains at places such as busy airports by a
"janitorial service", leading to the deaths of hundreds
of millions or even billions of people.

That's even worse. :-)

Another possibility is to throw sand or gravel in orbit.
With enough gravel one would knock out all satellite
communications (the fragments of said satellites will also
serve as further missilery to pulverize anything left),
but also shade out the sun. The main issue here is
that we'll need an awful lot of gravel to shade the sun
but knocking out the satellites will require far less;
a 1 gram fragment moving at 3 km/s has 4500J of energy,
which doesn't sound like much until one realizes that a
60 grain bullet (about the size of a 9mm) moving at 1500
ft/s is only 406 J -- less than 1/10th the destructive
energy of our hypothetical sand grain.

(Granted, a 1 gram fragment is a bit made up;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_size suggests some
sand/rock/gravel sizes. Since SiO2 density is about
2000-2300 kg/m^3, a 1 gram sand fragment would have to be
almost 1 cm in diameter -- medium gravel, in other words.)

So what to do? Best solution I can come up with is along
the lines of Coppock's: stop everyone from using greenhouse
gases by banning coal burning, plant more trees and flowers
[+], and replace all transport traffic with H2-powered
vehicles. Doing so, however, yields some interesting
problems, among them setting up the infrastructure to
handle all of the H2 that will be required, and spending
hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars one PV
panel at a time, effectively as capital investiture and
thereby a business tax.

Or, of course, we can do nothing, and watch the ice
caps melt, deserts increase, and methane from Siberia's
permafrost overwhelm the atmosphere (one of the more
interesting risks).

Where's the balance point?

[*] other variants of e.g. staphylococcus are already
mutating in our hospitals to become resistant to
antibiotics as well. Even if we don't explicitly
experiment, we may already be experimenting by default.

[+] some areas might benefit from training trellises over
roadways, for example, leading to a "green tunnel"
effect.

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #40490127:
for(; Wink

;

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

God

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:16 am

Guest

"Bawana" <mrbawana2u@yahoo.com> wrote in message

Quote:

crickets

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that global
warming may be the most carefully and fully studied scientific topic in
human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president - National Academy of Sciences

Bob Brown

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:31 am

Guest

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Quote:

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

William Asher

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:45 am

Guest

Bob Brown wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com
wrote:

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that global
warming may be the most carefully and fully studied scientific topic
in human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president - National Academy of
Sciences

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

Are you one of those types with a high I.Q. that never achieved anything of
significance?

--
Bill Asher

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:20 am

Guest

Bob Brown wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com
wrote:

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that global
warming may be the most carefully and fully studied scientific topic in
human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president - National Academy of Sciences

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

Wow, that's so islamofascist, so christian, beating someone who says
something you don't like. Do you beat your wife and kids as well?

Quote:

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

Doesn't matter when you haven't got a brain.

--
The Tsiolkovsky Group : http://www.lifeform.org

My Planetary BLOB : http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Get A Free Orbiter Space Flight Simulator :

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

Lloyd Parker

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:29 am

Guest

In article <ungcr2hs8q7nj5o8u59m5n7chiln5cnk68@bbb.org>, Bob Brown <.> wrote:

Quote:

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:20:56 -0600, kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:

Bob Brown wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com
wrote:

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that global
warming may be the most carefully and fully studied scientific topic in
human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president - National Academy of
Sciences

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

Wow, that's so islamofascist, so christian, beating someone who says
something you don't like. Do you beat your wife and kids as well?

Wow, brought religion into this....something tells me you're one of
those people who have ALGore's movie on DVD and have told all your
friends to watch it.

I only beat my wife and kids when they really deserve it.

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

Doesn't matter when you haven't got a brain.

Ralphy doesn't appear to have a brain. Like most liberals, he thinks
with his politics FIRST and SECOND with logic.

200 Years of data extrapolates MILLIONS of years worth of climate
history<---THAT is a huge problem.

If you want someone to believe you, tell the truth.

Remember when people believed Cheese "made" rats?
These were scientists at the time and they soon found they were very
very wrong.

Global Warming [Man-Made] is the "Cheese making rats" in the 21st
century.

Oh gee, an idiot chimes in.

Quote:

It's also funny how we hear a dozen scientists make the claim that
MAN's actions cause global warming. The other 99% won't speak because
of the PC climate.

No, we hear 98% of scientists make that claim, you doofus.

Quote:

Reminds me of the days when people dare say the Earth was not the
center of the universe. Back then it was PC to say Earth was the
end-all-be-all of everything.

People DIED trying to going against the PC crowd. I fear we will soon
pass laws that place people in prison for questioning PC positions on
science.

We already have people comparing Global Warming questioners to
Holocaust Deniers. It's only a few more steps...

Is their a boxcar in your future?

Is there a lobotomy in your past?

Bob Brown

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:23 pm

Guest

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:20:56 -0600, kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:

Quote:

Bob Brown wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com
wrote:

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that global
warming may be the most carefully and fully studied scientific topic in
human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president - National Academy of Sciences

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

Wow, that's so islamofascist, so christian, beating someone who says
something you don't like. Do you beat your wife and kids as well?

Wow, brought religion into this....something tells me you're one of
those people who have ALGore's movie on DVD and have told all your
friends to watch it.

I only beat my wife and kids when they really deserve it.

Quote:

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

Doesn't matter when you haven't got a brain.

Ralphy doesn't appear to have a brain. Like most liberals, he thinks
with his politics FIRST and SECOND with logic.

200 Years of data extrapolates MILLIONS of years worth of climate
history<---THAT is a huge problem.

If you want someone to believe you, tell the truth.

Remember when people believed Cheese "made" rats?
These were scientists at the time and they soon found they were very
very wrong.

Global Warming [Man-Made] is the "Cheese making rats" in the 21st
century.

It's also funny how we hear a dozen scientists make the claim that
MAN's actions cause global warming. The other 99% won't speak because
of the PC climate.
Reminds me of the days when people dare say the Earth was not the
center of the universe. Back then it was PC to say Earth was the
end-all-be-all of everything.

People DIED trying to going against the PC crowd. I fear we will soon
pass laws that place people in prison for questioning PC positions on
science.

We already have people comparing Global Warming questioners to
Holocaust Deniers. It's only a few more steps...

Is their a boxcar in your future?

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:25 pm

Guest

Bob Brown wrote:

Quote:

Or do you just play one on the internet?

William Asher

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:51 pm

Guest

Bob Brown wrote:

Quote:

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:45:10 +0000 (UTC), William Asher
gcnp58@yahoo.com> wrote:

Bob Brown wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God"
BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote:

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that
global warming may be the most carefully and fully studied
scientific topic in human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president -
National Academy of Sciences

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

Are you one of those types with a high I.Q. that never achieved
anything of significance?

I think I understand. I make a point, which no one dare make, and the
personal insults begin.

This newsgroup is more about politics than science.

The point is you attacked the president of the NAS. I wonder why you think
you know more than he does. What exactly in your educational or
professional background leads you to believe you know more about climate
science than the president of the NAS, who is himself an atmospheric
chemist. Your attack was so negative and so personal it sounds like you
are angry at him for being successful.

Cicerone's statement makes some sense in that the physics of radiative
transfer and the chemistry of the atmosphere as related to climate
change are fairly well understood. In contrast, the reasons why a
particular carcinogen causes fatal tumors in some people but not others is
not well understood. I'm just curious why you think this is so specious a
concept as to justify physical assault. If you want to criticize the
science, by all means talk about the science rather than slapping people
because their statements make you angry.

--
Bill Asher

God

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:34 pm

Guest

"God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote

Quote:

"Bob Brown" <.> wrote

Quote:

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

Of course you would. It is standard RepubliKKKan practice to silence,
through any means possible - including murder - anyone who speaks against
their conservative Liedeology.

Bob Brown

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:22 pm

Guest

On Tue, 23 Jan 07 15:29:17 GMT, lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

Quote:

In article <ungcr2hs8q7nj5o8u59m5n7chiln5cnk68@bbb.org>, Bob Brown <.> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:20:56 -0600, kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:

Bob Brown wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:16:17 -0500, "God" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com
wrote:

"We understand the mechanisms of CO2 and climate better than we do
of what causes lung cancer. ... In fact, it is fair to say that global
warming may be the most carefully and fully studied scientific topic in
human history." - Ralph Cicerone, president - National Academy of
Sciences

Ok, can we make a deal with Ralph to not pass laws and force me to
drive a car that could kill me if I hit a pole doing 1.9 mph?

Based on that QUOTE, I'd fire Ralph. If I couldn't fire him I'd at
least smack him so hard my hand print was on his face for several
months.

Wow, that's so islamofascist, so christian, beating someone who says
something you don't like. Do you beat your wife and kids as well?

Wow, brought religion into this....something tells me you're one of
those people who have ALGore's movie on DVD and have told all your
friends to watch it.

I only beat my wife and kids when they really deserve it.

OMG PHD, OMG I GOT A DEGREE....Uh...where are the brakes?

Doesn't matter when you haven't got a brain.

Ralphy doesn't appear to have a brain. Like most liberals, he thinks
with his politics FIRST and SECOND with logic.

200 Years of data extrapolates MILLIONS of years worth of climate
history<---THAT is a huge problem.

If you want someone to believe you, tell the truth.

Remember when people believed Cheese "made" rats?
These were scientists at the time and they soon found they were very
very wrong.

Global Warming [Man-Made] is the "Cheese making rats" in the 21st
century.

Oh gee, an idiot chimes in.

It's also funny how we hear a dozen scientists make the claim that
MAN's actions cause global warming. The other 99% won't speak because
of the PC climate.

No, we hear 98% of scientists make that claim, you doofus.

Reminds me of the days when people dare say the Earth was not the
center of the universe. Back then it was PC to say Earth was the
end-all-be-all of everything.

People DIED trying to going against the PC crowd. I fear we will soon
pass laws that place people in prison for questioning PC positions on
science.

We already have people comparing Global Warming questioners to
Holocaust Deniers. It's only a few more steps...

Is their a boxcar in your future?

Is there a lobotomy in your past?

When the "man-made" Global Warming people get their way and pass the
laws they want you will be very sorry.
It will be too late then.

Go buy a bike, it's going to come in handy.

Page 1 of 6 Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next All times are GMT - 5 Hours The time now is Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:18 pm Science Forum Index