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Science Forum Index » Engineering - Joining (Welding) Forum » Tig wleder, new vs used, miller vs lincoln
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| Rozamo |
 Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:32 pm |
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Guest
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Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance. |
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| BobH |
| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:33 pm |
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Guest
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Rozamo wrote:
Quote: Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance.
Hi,
I had a Miller Dialarc 250 HF that was a good DC welder and an OK old
technology AC welder. The square wave and other good stuff that the
newer machines have for AC really improves their aluminum welding
capability. On DC, amps is still amps and HF start works fine.
Good Luck,
Bob |
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| Ignoramus24699 |
| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:19 pm |
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On 10 Jan 2007 15:32:51 -0800, Rozamo <RodrigoZamoraB@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance.
I really like Hobart CyberTig, myself, not saying that it is better
than other old welders, but CyberTigs are very well constructed. Parts
are hard to find though.
i |
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| Robert Ball |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:57 am |
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Guest
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A newer inverter machine is a lot lighter ( hundreds of pounds lighter),
easier to move, has more flexibility, and inverters usually have better
TIG arc characteristics than transformer machines. Obviously as with
any general statement, there are exceptions to the rule. Power
consumption is probably less for inverter, but limited home use (I
assume) won't make much difference either way in your annual electric
bill. A transformer based unit with power factor correction draw huge
amounts of power both in use and at idle, over 30 amps I seem to recall;
.. I have a Lincoln inverter rated 300A on 3 phase, 250A on single phase
built in 1991 and it draws about 3 amps at idle (enough to run the
cooling fan). The Miller vs Lincoln question is like asking if a
redhead is better than a blond. Everyone has their own opinion, but
either one is better than nothing. Take what you can get. It may
depend on what you can find in the market at a price you feel good
about, or what is supported if you are in a rural area with only one
dealer in the area.
Rozamo wrote:
Quote: Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance.
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| Ignoramus16482 |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:02 am |
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:57:14 -0800, Robert Ball <rwballca@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote: A newer inverter machine is a lot lighter ( hundreds of pounds lighter),
easier to move, has more flexibility, and inverters usually have better
TIG arc characteristics than transformer machines. Obviously as with
any general statement, there are exceptions to the rule. Power
consumption is probably less for inverter, but limited home use (I
assume) won't make much difference either way in your annual electric
bill. A transformer based unit with power factor correction draw huge
amounts of power both in use and at idle, over 30 amps I seem to recall;
That would be 30 amps of current, the actual power draw of an idle
welder is not much, though the transformer heats up.
When I modified my Hobart CyberTig, the one thing I did was to make
sure that the main 3 phase transformer is only powered when welding.
Makes a big difference in heat produced, energy used, noise level,
etc.
i |
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| cyberzl1@yahoo.com |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:53 pm |
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Guest
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Rozamo wrote:
Quote: Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance.
I had a Miller 330 AB/P TIG welder. Very solid machine. I did mostly
carbon steel and stainless work with it. The previous owner had it in
a welding shop and used it strictly for aluminum work. I liked the
machine. Very full feature set for tuning TIG functionality.
I was doing a lot of lighter stainless work, and this machine worked
pretty good for it. The problems I had were more due to operator error
than the machine.
Sold it because I have a multiprocess machine now that covers the same
capabilities. Needed the space more than the machine, so sold it.
Very good starter machine. You won't hurt it. Nothing to really go
wrong with it, but if something does, it's going to be cheap.
JW |
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| Ed ke6bnl |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:13 pm |
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BobH wrote:
Quote: Rozamo wrote:
Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance.
Hi,
I had a Miller Dialarc 250 HF that was a good DC welder and an OK old
technology AC welder. The square wave and other good stuff that the
newer machines have for AC really improves their aluminum welding
capability. On DC, amps is still amps and HF start works fine.
Good Luck,
Bob
I have I believe the Dialarc 300 HF used, old and about 450lbs. For the
price of $700 about 7 yrs ago has been a great tool. Has done all I
needed it to with water cooled torch and cooler. There was no such
thing as inverter then that I new of or was so new it was not
practical. Ed ke6bnl |
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| Kryptoknight |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Guest
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other units to consider
htp - http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/index.htm
esab - http://www.esabna.com/
"Rozamo" <RodrigoZamoraB@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168471971.144141.107250@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Quote: Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance.
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| Too_Many_Tools |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:22 pm |
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I would point out that Miller does not support its Synchrowave TIG
welders as well as they would like you to think they do.
Ask them for a pulser accessory for their Synchrowave series and enjoy
the blank stare you get.
They discontinued this important accessory while still advertising it
as available and were selling the welders using this as a major selling
point.
My next welder will be Lincoln because of this.
TMT
Rozamo wrote:
Quote: Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance. |
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| Robert Ball |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:59 am |
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Guest
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The figure I cited was from the owner's manual that someone posted who
was looking for help with power connections. I was shocked at how much
it drew if the power factor correction option was installed; idle
current was very low without that option. My welding instructor
mentioned it when we were discussing power sources but I had no idea it
was so high even though someone said it was almost as much at idle as it
was when welding.
Ignoramus16482 wrote:
Quote: On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:57:14 -0800, Robert Ball <rwballca@comcast.net> wrote:
A newer inverter machine is a lot lighter ( hundreds of pounds lighter),
easier to move, has more flexibility, and inverters usually have better
TIG arc characteristics than transformer machines. Obviously as with
any general statement, there are exceptions to the rule. Power
consumption is probably less for inverter, but limited home use (I
assume) won't make much difference either way in your annual electric
bill. A transformer based unit with power factor correction draw huge
amounts of power both in use and at idle, over 30 amps I seem to recall;
That would be 30 amps of current, the actual power draw of an idle
welder is not much, though the transformer heats up.
When I modified my Hobart CyberTig, the one thing I did was to make
sure that the main 3 phase transformer is only powered when welding.
Makes a big difference in heat produced, energy used, noise level,
etc.
i
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| Brent |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:34 am |
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Guest
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You mean the Offboard pulser right?
All the Synchrowaves now come with it built in even my litte baby
Synchrowave 200
Someone posted a project that seemed ot be an excellent way to build
one about 2 months ago i think its in the dropbox as TIG pulser if you
need the offboard model
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Quote: I would point out that Miller does not support its Synchrowave TIG
welders as well as they would like you to think they do.
Ask them for a pulser accessory for their Synchrowave series and enjoy
the blank stare you get.
They discontinued this important accessory while still advertising it
as available and were selling the welders using this as a major selling
point.
My next welder will be Lincoln because of this.
TMT
Rozamo wrote:
Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance. |
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| Too_Many_Tools |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:23 am |
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Yes I mean the pulser option for the Sychrowave series of Miller
welders....a very sore spot for many Miller owners.
The reason why users are fending for themselves with self made pulsers
is because Miller decided to obselete this option (along with many
other offerings) while then current product was being advertised as
having the capability. I along with many others notified them of the
"oversight" and Miller continued to advertise and sell product
claiiming that the capabilty was available....when they knew it was
not.
The current Synchrowave welders now have built in pulser
capability...because the competing Lincoln welders did.
If you buy a new or used Miller welder, I would research to make sure
ALL accessories and repairs are available BEFORE you buy the welder.
And if you buy the Miller welder, I would then buy EVERY accessory that
you want soon after since there is no guarantee that it will be
available tomorrow.
Miller has proven to a number of us that they cannot be trusted in
supporting their product line...both current and older units...and I
for one will remember that lesson when I buy my next welder.
I do want to add that the pulser option that was posted recently is an
excellent solution to the problem that Miller has caused the welder
community and the designer should be commended for sharing his efforts
with us.
TMT
Brent wrote:
Quote: You mean the Offboard pulser right?
All the Synchrowaves now come with it built in even my litte baby
Synchrowave 200
Someone posted a project that seemed ot be an excellent way to build
one about 2 months ago i think its in the dropbox as TIG pulser if you
need the offboard model
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I would point out that Miller does not support its Synchrowave TIG
welders as well as they would like you to think they do.
Ask them for a pulser accessory for their Synchrowave series and enjoy
the blank stare you get.
They discontinued this important accessory while still advertising it
as available and were selling the welders using this as a major selling
point.
My next welder will be Lincoln because of this.
TMT
Rozamo wrote:
Hello everybody,
I just took a TIG class and want to get a Tig welder. I believe that
most of the work I will be doing is mild steel, but also some stainless
steel and ocasionally aluminum.
I would like a welder with a pulser cause most of my welds will be thin
stuff, but I guess that this is not critical. I like the old machines
because they have more meat and don't have all the electronics that are
so easy to screw. I know that the Miller/Lincoln question is more of a
preference.
Any suggestions on specific models? Thanks a lot in advance. |
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| Ignoramus9726 |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:35 am |
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The saddest part of all this (availability of pulsers) is that the
cost of adding a pulser to a welder that is microcontroller driven,
amounts to whatever is the cost of potentiometer or other user input
gizmo that sets pulsing. Otherwise pulsing all done by software.
In other words, it is basically a software option that comes at almost
no cost to the manufacturer.
i |
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| Too_Many_Tools |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:16 pm |
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Guest
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Quote:
In other words, it is basically a software option that comes at almost
no cost to the manufacturer.
True...for a manufacturer it is easy money...
For anyone who is buying a welder, determine what the cost (and
availability of) repairs and accessories BEFORE you buy the welder...it
will likely change your buying decision.
TMT
Ignoramus9726 wrote:
Quote: The saddest part of all this (availability of pulsers) is that the
cost of adding a pulser to a welder that is microcontroller driven,
amounts to whatever is the cost of potentiometer or other user input
gizmo that sets pulsing. Otherwise pulsing all done by software.
In other words, it is basically a software option that comes at almost
no cost to the manufacturer.
i |
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| Rozamo |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:02 pm |
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Thanks for all the replies, I will be slightly more specific now,
although the replies have made my decision more difficult, now I am
thinking about portability (I had been loking at transformers only).
I have been looking at the Syncrowave 200 and as many of you have
pointed out it is nice to know that they are including the pulser
capabilities on the new models (certainly a pulser will help until I
have the appropiate technique). My concern is with all the electronics
involved, are this machines reliable or is it better to have knobs as
the old ones.
The other machine I have been looking at is a Lincoln Square Wave 300,
which they don't make any more. The school that I went to have one and
it is a really nice machine, pulser included. It looks more solid than
the Syncrowave but it is a lot heavier.
I haven't looked at inverters but they certainly look nice, the only
'but' with them is that the ones with AC capabilities are way more than
what I have to spend. I will do more research so these haven't been
discarded yet.
Any comments on these two models, any issues?
Thanks again,
Rodrigo |
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