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Science Forum Index » Energy - Hydrogen Forum » They want $500 million subsidy for battery research
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| Pluto |
 Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:43 pm |
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U.S. Automakers Request $500 Million Battery Subsidy (Update3)
By John Lippert
Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG have
asked the U.S. government for $500 million over five years to subsidize research into
advanced batteries for cars and trucks.
The automakers made the request last month after meeting with President George W. Bush
in the White House in November, said Stephen Zimmer, an advanced engineering director at
DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler unit.
U.S.-based auto companies are in a race with rivals including Japan's Toyota Motor Corp.
to develop a lithium-ion battery for use in hybrids and other vehicles. They need a
product that won't overheat and is economical, durable, and rechargeable from a variety
of sources, including home outlets.
``The progress being made is tremendous, but the batteries are not prime-time ready
now,'' Zimmer said.
Since 1991, the U.S. government has subsidized battery research at the rate of about $25
million a year. Bush administration officials, during their Nov. 14 meeting with the
automakers, asked whether it was adequate, Zimmer said.
``They're asked whether we're doing enough to really have a competitive battery industry
in this country,'' he said. The ``answer was 'probably not.'''
Zimmer said he didn't know when the automakers will hear back from the White House on
their request. In a Jan. 7 interview, Chrysler Chief Executive Officer Tom LaSorda said
he and his counterparts at GM and Ford expect to meet with Bush again sometime during
2007.
Critical Technology
``Japan and other Asian countries have identified advanced batteries as a critical
competitive technology and are investing several hundred millions of dollars to support
their domestic manufacturers,'' said Greg Martin, a GM spokesman in Washington.
The U.S. needs a comparable effort in part because Japan won't share the results of this
research with U.S.-based firms, Martin said.
Julie Ruggiero, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Energy Department, didn't immediately return
calls seeking comment.
Toyota, the world's biggest seller of gasoline-electric hybrids, said yesterday that
it's working to develop smaller and more powerful batteries that can be used in vehicles
that get their initial charge from a home outlet.
It will be ``a long time'' before the technology is available, Executive Vice President
Masatami Takimoto said, declining to be more specific.
Power for Plug-Ins
Toyota and GM have both said that inadequate batteries are the most significant obstacle
to commercial production of plug-in hybrids. The vehicles can be charged at home and
then switch to a gasoline engine when the battery's power runs out.
Both automakers use nickel metal hydride batteries in their gasoline-electric hybrids.
The Energy Department provides subsidies for pre-competitive research into batteries and
other technologies in consultation with the U.S. Council for Automotive Research, a
cooperative established by the three automakers in 1992. Much of the actual research
takes place at universities, Zimmer said.
Don Walkowicz, executive direct of the Southfield, Michigan- based council, said he
expects to hear a reply from the White House on the funding request within the next few
weeks.
On Jan. 4, GM awarded two contracts to develop plug-in batteries. Johnson Controls-Saft
Advanced Power Solutions LLC and Cobasys, a joint venture of a Chevron Corp. subsidiary
and Energy Conversion Devices Inc., will compete to create a useable lithium-ion battery
for GM.
The subsidy request was reported earlier today by the Wall Street Journal.
To contact the reporter on this story: John Lippert in Detroit at jlippert@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: January 9, 2007 17:06 EST |
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| Dan Bloomquist |
| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:26 pm |
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Pluto wrote:
Read enough. |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:42 pm |
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Pluto wrote:
Quote: U.S. Automakers Request $500 Million Battery Subsidy (Update3)
That'll be against WTO rules.
Graham |
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| Pluto |
| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:46 pm |
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In the first place do these Cos like GM need that subsidy.?
500 million is peanuts for a 130 billion dollar company.
shame on them.
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45A5B20A.DC835F52@hotmail.com...
Quote:
Pluto wrote:
U.S. Automakers Request $500 Million Battery Subsidy (Update3)
That'll be against WTO rules.
Graham
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| tequila |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:00 am |
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| a lot more than you can say for fuel cells |
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| Damon Hill |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:52 pm |
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"Pluto" <pluto7@silver.com> wrote in news:eo476a$gl4$1
@reader01.singnet.com.sg:
Quote: In the first place do these Cos like GM need that subsidy.?
500 million is peanuts for a 130 billion dollar company.
shame on them.
They're presently operating billions in the red.
--Damon |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:07 pm |
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Damon Hill wrote:
Quote: "Pluto" <pluto7@silver.com> wrote
In the first place do these Cos like GM need that subsidy.?
500 million is peanuts for a 130 billion dollar company.
shame on them.
They're presently operating billions in the red.
And still think the answer is to pursue large vehicle development despite the
Japs showing otherwise.
Graham |
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| John Ladasky |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:42 am |
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Pluto wrote:
Quote: General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG have
asked the U.S. government for $500 million over five years to subsidize research into
advanced batteries for cars and trucks.
[snip]
Quote: Since 1991, the U.S. government has subsidized battery research at the rate of about $25
million a year. Bush administration officials, during their Nov. 14 meeting with the
automakers, asked whether it was adequate, Zimmer said.
``They're asked whether we're doing enough to really have a competitive battery industry
in this country,'' he said. The ``answer was 'probably not.'''
[snip the rest]
And MY question is, why should the auto companies be receiving research
support for batteries when they don't make them? Companies which MAKE
BATTERIES are much better candidates for grants.
Yes, I know that some of America's new-tech automotive battery
companies are jointly owned by car companies (and oil companies -- talk
about a conflict of interest). The article mentioned Cobasys. But
many battery companies are not tied to Detroit (A123, Altair
Nanotechnologies) and, in my judgment, it is these free-agents which
have been making the most progress.
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
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| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:46 am |
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John Ladasky wrote:
Quote: And MY question is, why should the auto companies be receiving research
support for batteries when they don't make them?
Well, they shouldn't but they're desperate for any handout to keep their SUV production lines
moving.
Quote: Companies which MAKE BATTERIES are much better candidates for grants.
I agree.
Graham |
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| Josh Hill |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:52 pm |
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:42:02 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Pluto wrote:
U.S. Automakers Request $500 Million Battery Subsidy (Update3)
That'll be against WTO rules.
Did you read the whole article?
' "Japan and other Asian countries have identified advanced batteries
as a critical competitive technology and are investing several hundred
millions of dollars to support their domestic manufacturers,'' said
Greg Martin, a GM spokesman in Washington. The U.S. needs a comparable
effort in part because Japan won't share the results of this
research with U.S.-based firms, Martin said.'
So either it isn't against the WTO rules or Japan et al are ignoring
them -- in which case fuck 'em . . .
--
Josh
[Truly] I say to you, [...] angel [...] power will be able to see that [...]
these to whom [...] holy generations [...]. After Jesus said this, he departed.
- The Gospel of Judas |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:53 am |
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Josh Hill wrote:
Quote: Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pluto wrote:
U.S. Automakers Request $500 Million Battery Subsidy (Update3)
That'll be against WTO rules.
Did you read the whole article?
' "Japan and other Asian countries have identified advanced batteries
as a critical competitive technology and are investing several hundred
millions of dollars to support their domestic manufacturers,'' said
Greg Martin, a GM spokesman in Washington. The U.S. needs a comparable
effort in part because Japan won't share the results of this
research with U.S.-based firms, Martin said.'
So either it isn't against the WTO rules or Japan et al are ignoring
them -- in which case fuck 'em . . .
What's the bet the US lobbyists are exaggerating ? Or even making it up ?
Graham |
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| Josh Hill |
| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:57 pm |
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On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 04:53:48 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Josh Hill wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pluto wrote:
U.S. Automakers Request $500 Million Battery Subsidy (Update3)
That'll be against WTO rules.
Did you read the whole article?
' "Japan and other Asian countries have identified advanced batteries
as a critical competitive technology and are investing several hundred
millions of dollars to support their domestic manufacturers,'' said
Greg Martin, a GM spokesman in Washington. The U.S. needs a comparable
effort in part because Japan won't share the results of this
research with U.S.-based firms, Martin said.'
So either it isn't against the WTO rules or Japan et al are ignoring
them -- in which case fuck 'em . . .
What's the bet the US lobbyists are exaggerating ? Or even making it up ?
Well, the last people in the world I trust are corporate lobbyists!
OTOH, it would be true to nature for the Japanese, who are famous or
it and with whom I had some professional dealings along those lines
back in the early days of HDTV: even when they claim their research is
open and promise to send you the results, it somehow never arrives.
--
Josh
[Truly] I say to you, [...] angel [...] power will be able to see that [...]
these to whom [...] holy generations [...]. After Jesus said this, he departed.
- The Gospel of Judas |
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