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Science Forum Index » Astro - Seti Forum » Down side of going to the Moon
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| Matt Giwer |
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:21 am |
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Not really a down side but I got your attention.
It may be 15+ years in the future but bureaucracies do not change in so few years.
So regardless of that might appear a better objective and even if the first
short term stays on the moon turn out to be remarkably not worth a permanent
station on the moon there will be a permanent station on the moon.
If a better way to spend the money comes along, there will be a permanent
station on the moon.
Government does not react like free enterprise. In fact government does not
really react all that much at all.
So rest assured there will be a permanent base on the moon even if the only
people sent there are the basic minimum needed to keep it from becoming useless
like the international space station or whatever name it is this week.
What sort of brought this to mind was Russia announcing similar plans but
projecting the fractional mass to get to the moon and back against launch weight
decided to look into a space elevator first. In terms of launch weight 1% just
costs too much. Even 4% costs too much. |
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| Matt Giwer |
| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:24 am |
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Matt Giwer wrote:
As usual I am just rambling ...
....
Quote: What sort of brought this to mind was Russia announcing similar
plans but projecting the fractional mass to get to the moon and back
against launch weight decided to look into a space elevator first. In
terms of launch weight 1% just costs too much. Even 4% costs too much.
The problem with all space exploration is what DOD at least calls throw weight.
NASA appears to avoid that obvious term because its DOD origins means throwing a
nuke warhead into Russia or Israel or whomever.
It is the fraction of payload to launch weight.
It is the tonnage delivered to the destination as a fraction of what weight has
to leave the earth.
One can be reasonably confident that efficiency can 'eventually' be doubled but
that is about it. But 'eventually' is not in the definable future nor is how
long the asymptote will take to get there. The current rate of progress is only
promising for youngsters starting to read this newsgroup.
The Russians have it right. That is to explore alternate means of getting there
and they have a bit over 4% throw weight with their rockets today. The elevator
is exotic. The ion engine is piss poor for delivering tons of hardware and
worthless for people.
Of interest is the NASA plans were announced as a pie in the sky wish list.
There was no price tag. There were no serious schedules announced. I was in the
gov for 20 years and around it for 5 more. No dollars means no plan. This is
really no more than a pie in the sky wish list. You do not have a plan without
milestones and dollars attached to it. That is a fact.
But the bureaucracy will rule and solidify objectives years after they are
Overtaken By Events, OBE.
The US will be on Mars even if there is a monolith around Jupiter (the movie)
or Saturn (the novel). And if there is a monolith detected on the moon guarantee
there will be a bureaucratic struggle to preserve the original program despite
the immense interest in the new discovery. |
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| Brad Guth |
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:35 pm |
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"Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in message
news:TLxdh.7970$7T5.7018@tornado.tampabay.rr.com
Quote: The US will be on Mars even if there is a monolith around Jupiter (the movie)
or Saturn (the novel). And if there is a monolith detected on the moon guarantee
there will be a bureaucratic struggle to preserve the original program despite
the immense interest in the new discovery.
Mars or of something further away from our moon or especially Venus is
the agenda at hand. The Old Testament lords of their new and improved
Third Reich does exactly as it wants, just as it did before.
I'm afraid that I kid you not, and I bet you thought those Christ on a
stick Romans were a touch out of control as they performed on behalf of
their partners in crimes against humanity.
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Brad Guth
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Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
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| Brad Guth |
| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:38 am |
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December 14/15, 2006 PNW storm = terajoules
Instead of our fixing all sorts of nifty and life essential stuff that's
badly in need right here in River City, we and our DoD should blow our
future billions and limited energy resources on continuing their grand
ruse/sting of the century. Therefore, we have no apparent "down side of
going to the moon" and off to Mars at the very same time.
Too bad we didn't have a few hundred of those mega towers of nifty wind
power, not only for having extracted much of the wind energy (easily
stored as a product of surplus energy that's in the form of LH2 and/or
h2o2), but otherwise for having significantly moderated the collateral
damage from mother nature going postal.
Of course, this silly storm of ours is downright wussy compared to
future storms, as pumped to new and improved capability by global
warming, plus packing a greater percentage of methanes and CO2 for good
measure. Perhaps life doesn't get any better.
In addition to those better wind turbines and of stirling thermal energy
conversions that can just as easily share the same installation
space-efficient foundation/footprint, along with solar PV cells reaching
past the nearly ideal 40% efficiency mark, whereas all that's needed
(besides loads of relatively cheap PV cells that are 40+% efficient) are
the converters that'll make plain old h2o into LH2 and/or better stored
as h2o2.
Solar cells triple in efficiency
http://fullygeek.com/2006/12/solar-cells-triple-in-efficiency/
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Brad Guth
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Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
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