I have a hunch that, at one time, we had a lot more hominid cousins
that we do now. And now, they're all gone.
No egzactly. Turns out, there is NO MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, but a period

On Jan 30, 4:44 pm, richard.nacam...@yahoo.com wrote:
I have a hunch that, at one time, we had a lot more hominid cousins
that we do now. And now, they're all gone.
No egzactly. Turns out, there is NO MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, but a period
of time during which sometimes more than one sperm enters.
If both are XX or YY, nobody notices the diff. But if one of each the
result is someone who is XXY, ala known as hermaphroditic.

Its a lot more common that people know. most often there is no obvious
external sign. Genetics is a crap shoot.
But whatever chromomes, the DNA dont zip together like a new jacket,
but more like an old one. There are loops that hang out that get
joined with snippets of DNA from whatever source that matches well
enough.

The reported different count in Neanderthals or other hominids...
makes no diff. Haplotypes will match up anyway. While any given
individual has only one mother, there may be more than one father. So,
when both Homo Erectus, Homo Neanderthalis, or whatever and Homo
sapiens all deposit sperm, the sperm wars begin, and the hybridization
process becomes gonzo more difficult to analyze.

The critical factor really, was not the Y but the X. Sykes, "The Seven
Daughters of Eve" shows that there are only seven Native European
mtDNA lines. Africa has 160 or so, scores in other gene pools, even
the relatively isolated Australian natives. Why only 7? Well, 9, if
you count a couple mtDNA lines found only in Finland.

Loud music!

Well, lookit african women. wider hips, easier delivery of newborns.
During the hybridization process the HNS females had problems and
didnt stay in the gene pools. Neither did most of the Semetic/African
lines that came into Europe. Only a few had pelvises flexible enough
to handle the diversity that hybridization produces.

"Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote in message
....
And the frosting on the cake is this (oh, oh) macro looking paragraph that
is just as incorrect now as it was when Ms Day dropped it into SAP the first
time. Did you meet the guy that used to come in here - closing his eyes and
singing, "La, la, la?" Or did he have his fingers in his ears? Tough to
tell, he may have been a product of the hybridization process.

On Feb 2, 2:08 pm, "Jois" <firstj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote in message
...
And the frosting on the cake is this (oh, oh) macro looking paragraph
that
is just as incorrect now as it was when Ms Day dropped it into SAP the
first
time. Did you meet the guy that used to come in here - closing his eyes
and
singing, "La, la, la?" Or did he have his fingers in his ears? Tough to
tell, he may have been a product of the hybridization process.


Maybe Day saw the subject line as a mating call, d'ya reckon? ...

Ross Macfarlane :-)

Inasmuch as I'm a dude, I'm not one of those making unsubstantiated
assumptions.

And to stay on thread, Stuart Kauffman, The Origins of Order, goes to
some length showing how small isolated populations produce lots of
genetic diversity. Given the paucity of hominid remians, the principle
would apply.

He also notes how, is a set is isolated, but then comes in contact
with a large population, whatever mutations may have evolved, gets
washed out.

One example that comes to mind was a woman's body, remarkably well
preserved in a mysterious fluid, found in NE China, had AB blood.
Which is Native European. But the woman, in all other respects looked
completely Chinese.

Its only been since the eolithic that there were any large populations
that would have washed out mutations. Prior to that, all mixing would
have been among small tribes or villages where the better adapted
mutations would have been sustained, and where the diversity of
ecosystems would have made a diff.

The usual response of the alpha males to the arrival of any strange
male was to kill him. The usual response of matriarchic tribes would
have been to consider keeping him around if he showed any promise. The
usual response to either on meeting a strange female would be to keep
her, adding her to the harem of the former, where she would be bred.
With matriarchies, they commonly had herbal birth control, and would
await breeding her pending an assessment of her talent and
personality. Matriarchies were far less interested in breeding
airheads who would require more case management.

Back when there were still Homo Erectus and Homo Neanderthalis, groups
were smaller in number and more widely dispersed as well as more
obviously suffering from inbreeding, and thus more accepting of any
new blood of either sex.

Later on, when regions that had enough tribes to fill up an ecosystem,
as LeBlanc shows in "Constant Battles", there was chronic warfare in
which any novel males showing up would have been killed. But the
violence level eventually gets to the point where populations are
devastated. Its just to dangerous to go foraging, and tribal
territories shrink to an absolute minimum, with a consequent drop in
the birth rate, less inter-tribal exchange of women, worse inbreeding,
and sometimes the total collapse with some tribes going extinct.

The more densely populated regions also suffered period episodes of
pandemic. So- when the number of survivors was small enough, any new
blood of either sex would be admitted into a tribe. Which relieved
some of the inbreeding problems, an increase in population, and then
more warfare as the numbers again exceeded the carrying capacity of
the ecosystem.

Gibbon kinda picks up on this in The Decline and Fall of The Roman
empire, in how waves of barbarians would attack the frontiers until
the legions came in and practiced a scorched earth policy beyond the
borders they wanted to defend. After the genocide, small groups would
again infiltrate the area, and be made up of exiles or survivors who'd
been driven out by one barbarian tribe or other. One tribe he
mentions, the "allmanni" were consciously aware of this, and was made
up entirely of exiles or refugees from other tribes, with a standard
policy of accepting anyone who cared to join them.

I expect that these cycles of violence went on as soon as hominids got
to the point of filling up an ecosystem, and that after the carnage,
the few survivors would not have been so picky about accepting other
hominid lines into their tribes. So, of course, hybridization would
have been tried between the Neanderthal, Homo Erectus, or whatever
other hominid lines were about, and from what we now know about
conception and DNA, that would have produced some successful cross
breeding. But eventually, Homo sapiens became the mass popuation which
appeared to have washed out all other earlier strains. However, as
with the Chinese body, there remain some traits among extant
populations in some regions that reflect the hybridization process.