What about "golden rice"? It was my impression that this was intended
for adoption in less-developed countries.

'a woman would need to eat 16 lbs. of cooked rice every day in order to get
sufficient Vitamin A, if golden rice were her only source of the nutrient. A
child would need 12 lbs. More realistically, three servings of ½ lb. cooked
golden rice per day would provide only 10% of her daily Vitamin A
requirement,

Martin Branson <nybranson@hotmail.com> writes
Which brings up the more important point: Monsanto's only interest in
gaining legal status for GMO crops in Brazil is so that they can get
paid. After all, they can hardly expect the government's help in
collecting license fees for seeds in a nation where it is illegal to
grow them.

Monsanto's pledge makes them sound more like the United Way than
Enron. If they are going to chase a buck even if it means banging
around a few third world farmers, perhaps they should revise the
pledge.

Get real. Brazil and argentina world dominate soya exports and
increasingly cereals. They aren't a load of illiterate peasants but very
effective and usually very large farmers.

After all, when you have cleared the rainforest or pampas you are left
with a continent of good land to grow crops on with just a little
fertiliser required.

"Oz" <acoohdb@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
Monsanto's pledge makes them sound more like the United Way than
Enron. If they are going to chase a buck even if it means banging
around a few third world farmers, perhaps they should revise the
pledge.

Get real. Brazil and argentina world dominate soya exports and
increasingly cereals. They aren't a load of illiterate peasants but very
effective and usually very large farmers.

After all, when you have cleared the rainforest or pampas you are left
with a continent of good land to grow crops on with just a little
fertiliser required.

this year for the first time ever Argentina and Brazil together produced
more Soya than the US (GM of course). They are the big boys now.

"Charles Hawtrey" <chawtrey@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f7b496b.11472428@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
nybranson@hotmail.com (Martin Branson) staggered to the nearest
keyboard and wrote:
What about "golden rice"? It was my impression that this was intended
for adoption in less-developed countries.

'a woman would need to eat 16 lbs. of cooked rice every day in order to get
sufficient Vitamin A, if golden rice were her only source of the nutrient. A
child would need 12 lbs. More realistically, three servings of ½ lb. cooked
golden rice per day would provide only 10% of her daily Vitamin A
requirement, and less than 6% if she were breast-feeding. Yet even these
modest contributions are uncertain. In order to absorb beta carotene, the
human body requires adequate amounts of zinc, protein and fats, elements
often lacking in the diets of poor people. Those with diarrhea - common in
developing countries - are also unable to obtain vitamin A from golden
rice.'

http://www.foe.org/safefood/rice.html

What happens to it all ? I've heard it's mostly for animal feed ... but I have
no data. Anyone ?

Not my understanding of much of the soils in Brazil.
IIRC large amounts of the country are not very good for crops ... a main
reason why cutting trees, farming a few years then cutting more trees happens.

Fertiliser required sounds like it might be considerable.

developing countries - are also unable to obtain vitamin A from golden
rice.'

http://www.foe.org/safefood/rice.html

..and as an aside, I heard that this was going to be sold for lots of money
.. until someone worked out no one would pay for it

Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes

What happens to it all ? I've heard it's mostly for animal feed ... but I
have
no data. Anyone ?

Argentina and brazil export both maize, soya and beef and chicken.
By all accounts much of the chicken ends up in the EU, where producers
are hamstrung by heavy regulation and expensive feed.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
DEMON address no longer in use.

Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes

Not my understanding of much of the soils in Brazil.
IIRC large amounts of the country are not very good for crops ... a main
reason why cutting trees, farming a few years then cutting more trees happens.

Fertiliser required sounds like it might be considerable.

Fertiliser requirements match the offtake of the crop, which is hardly a
surprise.

By the 1950's, much of the UK chalkland soils (a great amount of
england) which had been farmed for some 3000 years was so depleted that
growing cereals became uneconomic. None the less with the coming of bag
fertiliser they pretty rapidly became very highly productive farmland,
some of the best in the UK.
So it would perhaps be a mistake to assume that depleted soils are not
appropriate for productive modern farming.

Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes
developing countries - are also unable to obtain vitamin A from golden
rice.'
http://www.foe.org/safefood/rice.html

..and as an aside, I heard that this was going to be sold for lots of money
.. until someone worked out no one would pay for it :)

My understanding was that the work was offered for free, non-commercial.

In article <n9RW3TFOxPg$EwTs@btopenworld.com>, Oz <acoohdb@btopenworld.com
wrote:
Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes

Not my understanding of much of the soils in Brazil.
IIRC large amounts of the country are not very good for crops ... a main
reason why cutting trees, farming a few years then cutting more trees happens.

Fertiliser required sounds like it might be considerable.

Fertiliser requirements match the offtake of the crop, which is hardly a
surprise.

Up to a point yes.

I suspect timing is important here .... if the soil isn't
very fertile to start with best start fertilising immediately.

If the soil is
better, you might be able to draw on the nutrients you have there for a while.

By the 1950's, much of the UK chalkland soils (a great amount of
england) which had been farmed for some 3000 years was so depleted that
growing cereals became uneconomic. None the less with the coming of bag
fertiliser they pretty rapidly became very highly productive farmland,
some of the best in the UK.
So it would perhaps be a mistake to assume that depleted soils are not
appropriate for productive modern farming.

Didn't mean to imply that ... just that they need more work and better
management (read "some management" ) to get often ordinary yields from.

In article <nNRW7fFNyPg$Eww+@btopenworld.com>, Oz <acoohdb@btopenworld.com
wrote:
Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes
developing countries - are also unable to obtain vitamin A from golden
rice.'
http://www.foe.org/safefood/rice.html

..and as an aside, I heard that this was going to be sold for lots of money
.. until someone worked out no one would pay for it :)

My understanding was that the work was offered for free, non-commercial.

Yep ... AFTER they'd tried to sell it IIRC

Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes
In article <n9RW3TFOxPg$EwTs@btopenworld.com>, Oz <acoohdb@btopenworld.com
wrote:
Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes

Not my understanding of much of the soils in Brazil.
IIRC large amounts of the country are not very good for crops ... a main
reason why cutting trees, farming a few years then cutting more trees
happens.

Fertiliser required sounds like it might be considerable.

Fertiliser requirements match the offtake of the crop, which is hardly a
surprise.

Up to a point yes.
Standard practice.

I suspect timing is important here .... if the soil isn't
very fertile to start with best start fertilising immediately.
No, you apply an excess to build soil fertility.
Again, standard practice.

If the soil is
better, you might be able to draw on the nutrients you have there for a while.
That's nutrient mining and is not at all sustainable.
One reason I think organic farming is stupid.

By the 1950's, much of the UK chalkland soils (a great amount of
england) which had been farmed for some 3000 years was so depleted that
growing cereals became uneconomic. None the less with the coming of bag
fertiliser they pretty rapidly became very highly productive farmland,
some of the best in the UK.
So it would perhaps be a mistake to assume that depleted soils are not
appropriate for productive modern farming.

Didn't mean to imply that ... just that they need more work and better
management (read "some management" ) to get often ordinary yields from.
All soils need good management to get decent yields.
In that respect they are no different to any other soils.
Some are easier than others, but that is life.

Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes
In article <nNRW7fFNyPg$Eww+@btopenworld.com>, Oz <acoohdb@btopenworld.com
wrote:
Bruce Sinclair <bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> writes
developing countries - are also unable to obtain vitamin A from golden
rice.'
http://www.foe.org/safefood/rice.html
..and as an aside, I heard that this was going to be sold for lots of money
.. until someone worked out no one would pay for it
My understanding was that the work was offered for free, non-commercial.

Yep ... AFTER they'd tried to sell it IIRC :)

Having seen a (well respected) horizon TV program that showed this (and
other) gm work, I do not believe this is the case. The 'developer' is a
university professor who was doing it entirely altruistically. Not
everyone does work just for money (although he was already salaried as a
professor).

Not my understanding of much of the soils in Brazil.
IIRC large amounts of the country are not very good for crops ... a main
reason why cutting trees, farming a few years then cutting more trees happens.

Fertiliser required sounds like it might be considerable.

Bruce