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| J Thomas |
 Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:15 pm |
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flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
[quote:927ddcda34]On 27-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 26-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
Of course. It says what jewishness defines for you. For someone else
it might mean something else.
But that's of no consequence; that doesn;t makle others right.
I think that you and I have an unbridgeable gap, something that as
civilised people with a sense of tolerance we can only smile and shrug
and agree to disagree on. I can't hope to convince you, and as a
civilised person with a sense of tolerance it isn't necessary that I
try -- we can live peacefully in the same world without agreeing.
Certainly.
But I am trying to make a point that I think you are missing.
Everyone is certainly allowed to have opinions.
But there are times, and this is one of them, where opinions -
certainly not laymen's opinions - really do not count.
[/quote:927ddcda34]
You're welcome to that opinion. It hardly matters except to you and the
small minority of people who agree with you. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:15 am |
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On 27-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:9ffe77c68e]flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 27-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 26-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
Of course. It says what jewishness defines for you. For someone
else
it might mean something else.
But that's of no consequence; that doesn;t makle others right.
I think that you and I have an unbridgeable gap, something that as
civilised people with a sense of tolerance we can only smile and shrug
and agree to disagree on. I can't hope to convince you, and as a
civilised person with a sense of tolerance it isn't necessary that I
try -- we can live peacefully in the same world without agreeing.
Certainly.
But I am trying to make a point that I think you are missing.
Everyone is certainly allowed to have opinions.
But there are times, and this is one of them, where opinions -
certainly not laymen's opinions - really do not count.
You're welcome to that opinion. It hardly matters except to you and the
small minority of people who agree with you.
[/quote:9ffe77c68e]
First off, since you are discussing Judaism, only Jewish law can apply.
What you are saying is exactly like saying that "One person believes
America citizens are either born or naturalized, and another person
believes that long-time residency in the country and behaving like an
American confers citizenship."
Do you get what I'm saying?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but there are times when
opinion cannot count.
Susan |
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| J Thomas |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:39 am |
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Guest
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flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
[quote:cbc1f46438]On 27-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
You're welcome to that opinion. It hardly matters except to you and the
small minority of people who agree with you.
First off, since you are discussing Judaism, only Jewish law can apply.
What you are saying is exactly like saying that "One person believes
America citizens are either born or naturalized, and another person
believes that long-time residency in the country and behaving like an
American confers citizenship."
[/quote:cbc1f46438]
You're welcome to that opinion. But the majority of jewish people
disagree with you.
No, israeli law is not the only thing that applies. Or did you mean
something else?
[quote:cbc1f46438]Do you get what I'm saying?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but there are times when
opinion cannot count.
[/quote:cbc1f46438]
This is not one of those times. There is no general agreement about
what it means to be jewish. But I respect your opinion about it. You
aren't wrong any more than any of the other opinions about the topic
held by large numbers of jewish people are wrong. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:28 am |
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On 28-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:d32bd54d0e]laviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 27-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
You're welcome to that opinion. It hardly matters except to you and
the
small minority of people who agree with you.
First off, since you are discussing Judaism, only Jewish law can apply.
What you are saying is exactly like saying that "One person believes
America citizens are either born or naturalized, and another person
believes that long-time residency in the country and behaving like an
American confers citizenship."
You're welcome to that opinion. But the majority of jewish people
disagree with you.
[/quote:d32bd54d0e]
That is absolutely untrue - there aren't any Jews who believe that
it's racial, & only uneducated ones who think it's just some weird
"I can be uit if I think it".
You'd have to pony up some proof if you weant me to believe that,
& there is none.
[quote:d32bd54d0e]
No, israeli law is not the only thing that applies. Or did you mean
something else?
[/quote:d32bd54d0e]
Since I never mentioned Israel, & I mentioned Jewish law, yes, I
meant Jewish law.
[quote:d32bd54d0e]
Do you get what I'm saying?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but there are times when
opinion cannot count.
This is not one of those times. There is no general agreement about
what it means to be jewish.
[/quote:d32bd54d0e]
There most certainly is.
There is disagreement about the exact nature of those laws,
absolutely. But all agree that either your mother is Jewish or
you have to cvonvert - a very small minority *also* believe that
the father can confer it. They are the American Reform, & even
they mostly hold it as a matter of dogma, not in practice.
[quote:d32bd54d0e]But I respect your opinion about it. You
aren't wrong any more than any of the other opinions about the topic
held by large numbers of jewish people are wrong.
[/quote:d32bd54d0e]
True, but that's because most Jews agree with me.
Susan |
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| J Thomas |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:36 am |
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Guest
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flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
[quote:b28c3da5e7]On 28-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
First off, since you are discussing Judaism, only Jewish law can apply.
What you are saying is exactly like saying that "One person believes
America citizens are either born or naturalized, and another person
believes that long-time residency in the country and behaving like an
American confers citizenship."
You're welcome to that opinion. But the majority of jewish people
disagree with you.
That is absolutely untrue - there aren't any Jews who believe that
it's racial, & only uneducated ones who think it's just some weird
"I can be uit if I think it".
You'd have to pony up some proof if you weant me to believe that,
& there is none.
[/quote:b28c3da5e7]
I doubt that there are many jews who think it's only racial, and I
would be surprised to find more than a tiny minority who believe it's
for anybody who claims it. But there are certainly more than three
alternatives here.
[quote:b28c3da5e7]No, israeli law is not the only thing that applies. Or did you mean
something else?
Since I never mentioned Israel, & I mentioned Jewish law, yes, I
meant Jewish law.
[/quote:b28c3da5e7]
As far as I know israel is the only nation that enforces something that
might properly be called jewish law.
[quote:b28c3da5e7]Do you get what I'm saying?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but there are times when
opinion cannot count.
This is not one of those times. There is no general agreement about
what it means to be jewish.
There most certainly is.
There is disagreement about the exact nature of those laws,
absolutely. But all agree that either your mother is Jewish or
you have to cvonvert - a very small minority *also* believe that
the father can confer it. They are the American Reform, & even
they mostly hold it as a matter of dogma, not in practice.
[/quote:b28c3da5e7]
Is there agreement that converting to Reform makes you jewish? The last
I heard there wasn't agreement that the majority of jews are jews.
[quote:b28c3da5e7]But I respect your opinion about it. You
aren't wrong any more than any of the other opinions about the topic
held by large numbers of jewish people are wrong.
True, but that's because most Jews agree with me.
[/quote:b28c3da5e7]
I expect most agree to the statement you just made. But that's a far
cry from agreeing about who's jewish or about what it means to be
jewish. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:26 pm |
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On 28-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:64da7bff53]flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 28-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
First off, since you are discussing Judaism, only Jewish law can
apply.
What you are saying is exactly like saying that "One person believes
America citizens are either born or naturalized, and another person
believes that long-time residency in the country and behaving like
an
American confers citizenship."
You're welcome to that opinion. But the majority of jewish people
disagree with you.
That is absolutely untrue - there aren't any Jews who believe that
it's racial, & only uneducated ones who think it's just some weird
"I can be uit if I think it".
You'd have to pony up some proof if you weant me to believe that,
& there is none.
I doubt that there are many jews who think it's only racial, and I
would be surprised to find more than a tiny minority who believe it's
for anybody who claims it. But there are certainly more than three
alternatives here.
No, israeli law is not the only thing that applies. Or did you mean
something else?
Since I never mentioned Israel, & I mentioned Jewish law, yes, I
meant Jewish law.
As far as I know israel is the only nation that enforces something that
might properly be called jewish law.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but there are times
when
opinion cannot count.
This is not one of those times. There is no general agreement about
what it means to be jewish.
There most certainly is.
[/quote:64da7bff53]
actually, I apologize.
I missed the part about "means to be", and you did NOT mean
"how you get to be" Jewish.
I totally misread it, and have no idea why.
[quote:64da7bff53]There is disagreement about the exact nature of those laws,
absolutely. But all agree that either your mother is Jewish or
you have to cvonvert - a very small minority *also* believe that
the father can confer it. They are the American Reform, & even
they mostly hold it as a matter of dogma, not in practice.
Is there agreement that converting to Reform makes you jewish?
[/quote:64da7bff53]
And this is what I meant by "disagreement about the exact nature of these
laws".
Susan |
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