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| Guest |
 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:48 pm |
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For a long time, Jews have been liberal and pacifistic. This has been
getting them run over (pogroms, Nazis, etc), and worse, it has been
getting them considered cowards and weaklings.
So when Israel got some firepower, the people who believed such things
were aghast. "What? Jews can fight, after we've designated them as
cowards and weaklings? Something's not right with the world! We must
destroy them!"
What must be destroyed is the worldview that is behind such beliefs.
The bully cultures facing Israel must be broken up and broken down.
Kindness is not the same thing as weakness; and pacifism is not the
same thing as cowardice. And so I believe, in fighting Hezbollah, which
wants to hold the good people of Lebanon in a grip of fear, Israel is
standing up for everyone who's tired of being intimidated, especially
by the degenerate bullies of Middle East who made that place the pile
of garbage that it is now and want to reshape the world in its image.
I see Israel as doing the people of Lebanon a big favor by standing up
to the bullies. And I think that the people of Lebanon will appreciate
what Israel is doing in the end.
Ilya Shambat
http://ibshambat.blogspot.com |
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| Daniel T. |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:35 am |
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Guest
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In article <1153621554.256176.299380@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com wrote:
[quote:cf14978c93]For a long time, Jews have been liberal and pacifistic. This has been
getting them run over (pogroms, Nazis, etc), and worse, it has been
getting them considered cowards and weaklings.
So when Israel got some firepower, the people who believed such things
were aghast. "What? Jews can fight, after we've designated them as
cowards and weaklings? Something's not right with the world! We must
destroy them!"
What must be destroyed is the worldview that is behind such beliefs.
The bully cultures facing Israel must be broken up and broken down.
Kindness is not the same thing as weakness; and pacifism is not the
same thing as cowardice. And so I believe, in fighting Hezbollah, which
wants to hold the good people of Lebanon in a grip of fear, Israel is
standing up for everyone who's tired of being intimidated, especially
by the degenerate bullies of Middle East who made that place the pile
of garbage that it is now and want to reshape the world in its image.
I see Israel as doing the people of Lebanon a big favor by standing up
to the bullies. And I think that the people of Lebanon will appreciate
what Israel is doing in the end.
[/quote:cf14978c93]
Maybe the ones who survive will, and if they don't they will be subject
to house arrest.
The real question is, did the Hezbollah capture the Israeli soldiers
while invading Israeli land, or did they capture soldiers who were
invading their land. Since the border is in dispute (even the UN can't
decide where it is AFAIK) one simply can't tell. |
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| stevemur |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:41 am |
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Guest
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Daniel T. wrote:
[quote:9b76ce51ae]The real question is, did the Hezbollah capture the Israeli soldiers
while invading Israeli land, or did they capture soldiers who were
invading their land. Since the border is in dispute (even the UN can't
decide where it is AFAIK) one simply can't tell.
[/quote:9b76ce51ae]
I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this. Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state, "Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
In any case, they didn't undertake something of this scale because a
couple of guys were kidnapped. No general worth his salt would be that
impulsive. So the soldiers are a pretext.
Maybe it's important in international law which side of a border they
were kidnapped on. But I don't think there's going to be any war
crimes trial this time. The US and Britain will probably be strong
enough to decide which attacks are "Criminal" for a few more years, and
they've decided to back this one so far.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid
moves, only complicated stupid moves which make the rest of us wonder
at the possibility
that we might be missing something."
--Gamal Abdel Nasser |
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| Pinky & Perky sing sad so |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:32 am |
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Guest
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<ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1153621554.256176.299380@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[quote:c18d2d6987]
I see Israel as doing the people of Lebanon a big favor by standing up
to the bullies. And I think that the people of Lebanon will appreciate
what Israel is doing in the end.
[/quote:c18d2d6987]
'Appreciative'? - I should jolly well say so! Israel is doing them a huge
favour by destroying all those old houses, and roads, and bridges, and
hospitals, and power plants, and offices, and shops - not to mention all
those unproductive old people.
What an exciting brand-new Lebanon will emerge from all this demolition! -
just think of the design opportunities for building a swish new country that
incorporates the very latest in construction technology.
Think of the smooth highways that will replace the pot-holed tracks that are
being destroyed by the thoughtful Israeli's - no more bouncing about on
ancient rutted roads!, instead the Lebanese will be able to glide about
their new country in air-conditioned comfort.
Similarly, they're going to have new homes featuring the very latest labour
saving technology and home entertainment systems , brand new hospitals
crammed with the very latest hi-tech medical equipment, cool airy offices
and designer shopping malls that are carefully planned around gardens and
tumbling waterfalls.
And all thanks to Israel! - how could the Lebanese *not* be grateful?
It'll take some effort, of course - but as Lebanese will also need to
replace their children along with their infrastructure, there will be
plenty of opportunity for fun, along with all the hard work.
Lucky Lebanon! - I wouldn't be at all surprised if the populations of Syria
and Iran get so jealous at Lebanon's good fortune that they start pleading
with the Israeli's to bomb their own out-dated roads and buildings as well,
so that they too can build a shiny new country. |
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| AlanS |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:54 am |
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Guest
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On 22 Jul 2006 19:25:54 -0700, ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com wrote:
[quote:2819ff6fd8]For a long time, Jews have been liberal and pacifistic. This has been
getting them run over (pogroms, Nazis, etc), and worse, it has been
getting them considered cowards and weaklings.
So when Israel got some firepower, the people who believed such things
were aghast. "What? Jews can fight, after we've designated them as
cowards and weaklings? Something's not right with the world! We must
destroy them!"
[/quote:2819ff6fd8]
Two wrongs make not right. The assumption that it does has
unfortunately been the cornerstone of international decisionmaking in
the middle east. To be fair, when it comes to Israel/Palestine, we are
talking about not two but some two thousand wrongs (and counting).
[quote:2819ff6fd8]I see Israel as doing the people of Lebanon a big favor by standing up
to the bullies. And I think that the people of Lebanon will appreciate
what Israel is doing in the end.
[/quote:2819ff6fd8]
I was going to suggest a bet but I noticed you covered your bases.
It's also just as safe to say pigs will fly "in the end". |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:44 am |
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On 23-Jul-2006, "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote:6eb4ebea3e]n article <1153621554.256176.299380@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
ilya_shambat2004@yahoo.com wrote:
I see Israel as doing the people of Lebanon a big favor by standing up
to the bullies. And I think that the people of Lebanon will appreciate
what Israel is doing in the end.
Maybe the ones who survive will, and if they don't they will be subject
to house arrest.
[/quote:6eb4ebea3e]
Andthe proof for this lie is----
[quote:6eb4ebea3e]
The real question is, did the Hezbollah capture the Israeli soldiers
while invading Israeli land, or did they capture soldiers who were
invading their land. Since the border is in dispute (even the UN can't
decide where it is AFAIK) one simply can't tell.
[/quote:6eb4ebea3e]
-- doubtless the same for this one.
Susan |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:45 am |
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On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
[quote:7558a6b03d]I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this. Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state, "Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
[/quote:7558a6b03d]
Not nearly as fascinating as your deliberately ignoring the differences in
the groups.
Susan |
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| stevemur |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:04 pm |
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Guest
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flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
[quote:de9b332954]On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this. Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state, "Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
Not nearly as fascinating as your deliberately ignoring the differences in
the groups.
[/quote:de9b332954]
Maybe I'm not doing it deliberately. Why don't you tell me what
differences you see. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:05 pm |
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On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
[quote:5a04bf9b62]flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this. Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state, "Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
Not nearly as fascinating as your deliberately ignoring the differences
in
the groups.
Maybe I'm not doing it deliberately. Why don't you tell me what
differences you see.
[/quote:5a04bf9b62]
Terrorists do not use uniforms, so no one can identify them.
They also target civilians who have done nothing wrong.
Israel does the oposite of this. And that's just the tip of the
iceberg with what is wrong with your post.
But you knew all this before I posted.
Susan |
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| Daniel T. |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:33 pm |
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Guest
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In article <DoSwg.6321$yN3.6204@trnddc04>, flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
[quote:54bf7d8a0d]On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this. Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state, "Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
Not nearly as fascinating as your deliberately ignoring the differences
in
the groups.
Maybe I'm not doing it deliberately. Why don't you tell me what
differences you see.
Terrorists do not use uniforms, so no one can identify them.
They also target civilians who have done nothing wrong.
Israel does the oposite of this. And that's just the tip of the
iceberg with what is wrong with your post.
But you knew all this before I posted.
[/quote:54bf7d8a0d]
Israel has illegally occupied another country's territory since 1967,
targeting civilians who have done nothing wrong on a regular basses. I
don't think the fact that they wear uniforms is all that relevant. |
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| Miriam Cohen |
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:47 pm |
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Guest
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stevemur wrote:
[quote:8e91c0aeeb]flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this. Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state, "Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
Not nearly as fascinating as your deliberately ignoring the differences in
the groups.
Maybe I'm not doing it deliberately.
[/quote:8e91c0aeeb]
I'm amazed that you'd admit that.
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
In the beginning
the Word already was. |
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| Immortalist |
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:46 am |
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Guest
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Daniel T. wrote:
[quote:d3c14d3b3a]In article <DoSwg.6321$yN3.6204@trnddc04>, flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
Israel has illegally occupied another country's territory since 1967,
targeting civilians who have done nothing wrong on a regular basses. I
don't think the fact that they wear uniforms is all that relevant.
[/quote:d3c14d3b3a]
Why isn't it theirs?
Upon his death [Herod] in 4 BCE the Romans directly ruled Judea and
there were frequent changes of policies by conflicting and
empire-building Caesars, generals, governors, and consuls who often
acted cruelly or to maximize their own wealth and power. Rome's
attitudes swung from tolerance to hostility against its Jewish
subjects, who had since moved throughout the Empire. The Romans,
worshipping a large pantheon, could not readily accommodate the
exclusive monotheism of Judaism, and the religious Jews could not
accept Roman polytheism. (It was in this tumultous climate that
Christianity first emerged, among a small group of Jews.) After a
famine and riots in 66 CE, the Judeans began to revolt against their
Roman rulers. The revolt was smashed by Titus Flavius, a Roman general
who later succeeded his father Vespasian as emperor. In Rome the Arch
of Titus still stands, showing enslaved Judeans and a menorah being
brought to Rome. It is customary for Jews to walk around, rather than
through, this arch.
The Arch of Titus depicts enslaved Judeans and objects from the Temple
being brought to Rome.The Romans all but destroyed Jerusalem; only a
single "Western Wall" of the Second Temple remained. After the end of
this first revolt, the Judeans continued to live in their land in
significant numbers, and were allowed to practice their religion. In
the second century the Roman Emperor Hadrian began to rebuild Jerusalem
as a pagan city while restricting some Jewish practices. Angry at this
affront, the Judeans again revolted led by Simon Bar Kokhba. Hadrian
responded with overwhelming force, putting down the revolution and
killing as many as half a million Jews. After the Roman Legions
prevailed in 135, Jews were not allowed to enter the city of Jerusalem
and most Jewish worship was forbidden by Rome. Following the
destruction of Jerusalem and the expulsion of the Jews, Jewish worship
stopped being centrally organized around the Temple, and instead was
rebuilt around rabbis who acted as teachers and leaders of individual
communities. No new books were added to the Jewish Bible after the
Roman period, instead major efforts went into interpreting and
developing the Halakhah, or oral law, and writing down these traditions
in the Talmud, the key work on the interpretation of Jewish law,
written during the first to fifth centuries CE.
Beginning of the Diaspora
Though Jews had settled outside Israel since the time of the
Babylonians, the results of the Roman response to the Jewish revolt
shifted the center of Jewish life from its ancient home to the
diaspora.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:23 am |
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On 23-Jul-2006, "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote:4e820961f6]n article <DoSwg.6321$yN3.6204@trnddc04>, flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 23-Jul-2006, "stevemur" <stevemur@cyberspace.org> wrote:
I don't think the captured soldiers are important in all this.
Israel
has lots of 'prisoners' of their own who could've been exchanged
for
them. That's been done before. (Note that Israel, as a state,
"Takes
prisoners": they do not kidnap. The people trained to kill for
Israel
are "Soldiers," never terrorists. I find the language of these
conflicts horribly fascinating.)
Not nearly as fascinating as your deliberately ignoring the
differences
in
the groups.
Maybe I'm not doing it deliberately. Why don't you tell me what
differences you see.
Terrorists do not use uniforms, so no one can identify them.
They also target civilians who have done nothing wrong.
Israel does the oposite of this. And that's just the tip of the
iceberg with what is wrong with your post.
But you knew all this before I posted.
Israel has illegally occupied another country's territory since 1967,
[/quote:4e820961f6]
Telling lies like this only exposes you for exactly what you are.
[quote:4e820961f6]targeting civilians who have done nothing wrong on a regular basses. I
don't think the fact that they wear uniforms is all that relevant.
[/quote:4e820961f6]
You have shown with these lies that you don't think *any* facts are
relevent.
Susan |
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| J Thomas |
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:39 pm |
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Guest
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flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
[quote:65b942f89f]On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:05:05 +0100, "Pinky & Perky sing sad songs for
the Lebanon" <incensed@themurderofinnocentchildren.com> wrote:
As a Jewish convert
WHich this liar is not.
[/quote:65b942f89f]
I don't suppose it matters to you, but this person was claiming that
you were a jewish convert and asking about your experience of it.
Are you saying that you are a liar and not a jewish convert? Or did you
simply completely misunderstand the question? |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:22 pm |
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On 24-Jul-2006, "J Thomas" <jethomas5@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:ab47fd2296]laviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:05:05 +0100, "Pinky & Perky sing sad songs for
the Lebanon" <incensed@themurderofinnocentchildren.com> wrote:
As a Jewish convert
Which this liar is not.
I don't suppose it matters to you, but this person was claiming that
you were a jewish convert and asking about your experience of it.
[/quote:ab47fd2296]
Actually, I had no idea what he was saying, if only because the poster
to whom I was actually responding snipped the rest of it, but I do know
from experience that this cowardly poster is a liar, and definteily not
interested in the truth.
As far as his "asking" me about it, I would only have to say "Why is he
now asking after years of making up the nastiest lies about it? Is he
actually, finally, admitting by asking insted of making up crap that he's
been lying all along?"
Susan |
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