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Eric Stevens
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:33 pm
Guest
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:00:27 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bp2a30hl147d4thgf8d1tb3efhhgkhcr17@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:36:53 -0000, "Jim Webster"


The only obvious effects of Tunguska was blast damage to trees. There
will be no sign of this in 1500 years. There are more subtle traces
but these can only be found by specifically looking for them with
appropriate analytical techniques. The problem is that if there was a
similar event in 536AD, where do we start our specific search for
evidence?

It depends upon the size we need. For a start there are large areas of the
world where it might not have left records, but there are equally areas
where it would. Statistically it should hit sea so I suspect we could look
for histories of tidal waves (and if sufficiently high, these can leave
traces in coastal areas


Fair comment. The problem is that until very recently tidal waves have
been assumed to be due to earthquakes, sub-sea slumping etc.



Eric Stevens
Jim Webster
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:00 am
Guest
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:mska301vgfa2dk2bc8nfjphe7jqr6o32h8@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:00:27 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bp2a30hl147d4thgf8d1tb3efhhgkhcr17@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:36:53 -0000, "Jim Webster"


The only obvious effects of Tunguska was blast damage to trees. There
will be no sign of this in 1500 years. There are more subtle traces
but these can only be found by specifically looking for them with
appropriate analytical techniques. The problem is that if there was a
similar event in 536AD, where do we start our specific search for
evidence?

It depends upon the size we need. For a start there are large areas of
the
world where it might not have left records, but there are equally areas
where it would. Statistically it should hit sea so I suspect we could
look
for histories of tidal waves (and if sufficiently high, these can leave
traces in coastal areas


Fair comment. The problem is that until very recently tidal waves have
been assumed to be due to earthquakes, sub-sea slumping etc.

If the evidence is there, re-interpretation is legitimate. If someone has
dated some tidal wave to approximately 550AD then I think you can start
looking around the coasts of that basin and trying to calculate possible
impact. Obviously you have to keep in mind other alternatives.

Jim Webster

Quote:


Eric Stevens
Eric Stevens
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:56 pm
Guest
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:00:52 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:mska301vgfa2dk2bc8nfjphe7jqr6o32h8@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:00:27 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bp2a30hl147d4thgf8d1tb3efhhgkhcr17@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:36:53 -0000, "Jim Webster"


The only obvious effects of Tunguska was blast damage to trees. There
will be no sign of this in 1500 years. There are more subtle traces
but these can only be found by specifically looking for them with
appropriate analytical techniques. The problem is that if there was a
similar event in 536AD, where do we start our specific search for
evidence?

It depends upon the size we need. For a start there are large areas of
the
world where it might not have left records, but there are equally areas
where it would. Statistically it should hit sea so I suspect we could
look
for histories of tidal waves (and if sufficiently high, these can leave
traces in coastal areas


Fair comment. The problem is that until very recently tidal waves have
been assumed to be due to earthquakes, sub-sea slumping etc.

If the evidence is there, re-interpretation is legitimate. If someone has
dated some tidal wave to approximately 550AD then I think you can start
looking around the coasts of that basin and trying to calculate possible
impact. Obviously you have to keep in mind other alternatives.


I think that at this stage looking for a tidal wave would have you
ahead of the evidence. It is by no means agreed that whatever happened
was due to a meteor/comet/meteor shower.



Eric Stevens
Jim Webster
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:23 pm
Guest
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:a4uc30parglkhs6lv203htmrm6fhrmuf6u@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:00:52 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:mska301vgfa2dk2bc8nfjphe7jqr6o32h8@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:00:27 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bp2a30hl147d4thgf8d1tb3efhhgkhcr17@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:36:53 -0000, "Jim Webster"


The only obvious effects of Tunguska was blast damage to trees.
There
will be no sign of this in 1500 years. There are more subtle traces
but these can only be found by specifically looking for them with
appropriate analytical techniques. The problem is that if there was
a
similar event in 536AD, where do we start our specific search for
evidence?

It depends upon the size we need. For a start there are large areas of
the
world where it might not have left records, but there are equally
areas
where it would. Statistically it should hit sea so I suspect we could
look
for histories of tidal waves (and if sufficiently high, these can
leave
traces in coastal areas


Fair comment. The problem is that until very recently tidal waves have
been assumed to be due to earthquakes, sub-sea slumping etc.

If the evidence is there, re-interpretation is legitimate. If someone has
dated some tidal wave to approximately 550AD then I think you can start
looking around the coasts of that basin and trying to calculate possible
impact. Obviously you have to keep in mind other alternatives.


I think that at this stage looking for a tidal wave would have you
ahead of the evidence. It is by no means agreed that whatever happened
was due to a meteor/comet/meteor shower.

Of course, although it there was something appropriate for the period it
might be interesting.
I haven't ignored your other post, I was giving it the time it deserved.
Trying to look at sources of evidence, obviously it is unlikely any object
that was disintegrating at such a rate was still recognisable, but I note
the comment "For strong climatic effects to be expected, the 'IRAS
trail' would have to be at least 1000 times denser than those now
observed, and might be visible as a milky patch of light in the night
sky, drifting through the zodiacal light."
This would give hope that such trails might still be detected. If such were
found, they would at least show that such objects do exist which undermines
one objection to that particular theory.

Jim Webster
Eric Stevens
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:59 pm
Guest
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 22:23:58 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:a4uc30parglkhs6lv203htmrm6fhrmuf6u@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:00:52 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:mska301vgfa2dk2bc8nfjphe7jqr6o32h8@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:00:27 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bp2a30hl147d4thgf8d1tb3efhhgkhcr17@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:36:53 -0000, "Jim Webster"


The only obvious effects of Tunguska was blast damage to trees.
There
will be no sign of this in 1500 years. There are more subtle traces
but these can only be found by specifically looking for them with
appropriate analytical techniques. The problem is that if there was
a
similar event in 536AD, where do we start our specific search for
evidence?

It depends upon the size we need. For a start there are large areas of
the
world where it might not have left records, but there are equally
areas
where it would. Statistically it should hit sea so I suspect we could
look
for histories of tidal waves (and if sufficiently high, these can
leave
traces in coastal areas


Fair comment. The problem is that until very recently tidal waves have
been assumed to be due to earthquakes, sub-sea slumping etc.

If the evidence is there, re-interpretation is legitimate. If someone has
dated some tidal wave to approximately 550AD then I think you can start
looking around the coasts of that basin and trying to calculate possible
impact. Obviously you have to keep in mind other alternatives.


I think that at this stage looking for a tidal wave would have you
ahead of the evidence. It is by no means agreed that whatever happened
was due to a meteor/comet/meteor shower.

Of course, although it there was something appropriate for the period it
might be interesting.
I haven't ignored your other post, I was giving it the time it deserved.
Trying to look at sources of evidence, obviously it is unlikely any object
that was disintegrating at such a rate was still recognisable, but I note
the comment "For strong climatic effects to be expected, the 'IRAS
trail' would have to be at least 1000 times denser than those now
observed, and might be visible as a milky patch of light in the night
sky, drifting through the zodiacal light."
This would give hope that such trails might still be detected. If such were
found, they would at least show that such objects do exist which undermines
one objection to that particular theory.

A Google search on "comet debris trail" produces a rich haul
commencing with:

"Of course, it's also possible that the fragments will completely
disintegrate into dust, in which case nothing observable will be
left."

http://www.aas.org/publications/baas/v35n4/dps2003/405.htm
"Cometary debris trails where first discovered by the Infrared
Astronomical Satellite[1] in thermal emission at mid-IR
wavelengths and have only recently have been detected in
reflected visible light [2,3]".

http://www.davidchandler.com/debris.htm

http://www.comet-track.com/meteor/leonids98/leonids98.html

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/28feb_tucanids.htm
"This isn't the first dust trail from a long-period comet Jenniskens
has studied. In 1995, members of the Dutch Meteor Society
assisted him in triangulating meteors from a spectacular burst of
alpha-Monocerotids over Spain that year. They demonstrated
that the dust was in a long period orbit (much longer than 150
years). "That shower proved long-period comets have dust trails,"
he says. "And it showed peculiar aspects such as sodium-poor
meteoroids with unusually high density."

http://www.aas.org/publications/baas/v30n3/dps98/423.htm

... plus many more.



Eric Stevens
 
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