Main Page | Report Page

 

  Science Forum Index » Philosophy Forum » How To Condition Someone [without them knowing it's happenin

Author Message
Immortalist
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:04 pm
 
How to condition one of your instructors to act in a certain way, without
him or her knowing it. Here's what you do;

[1] Explain what you're doing to as many people in the class as you can.

[2] Pick the behavior that you want to reinforce-walking back and forth,
standing in a particular spot, gesturing to the class with a piece of chalk,
or whatever.

The object of the game is to administer positive reinforcement every time
your instructor performs the behavior you have chosen. Look interested, nod
your head, ask questions, take notes. When he or she stops the behavior, go
to negative reinforcement. Look bored, act confused, shuffle your feet, look
at your watch, stare out the window. When your teacher goes back to the
chosen behavior, respond positively again. After a while, you should find
your teacher doing the behavior you selected most of the time. (One class
took "being near the radiator" as the behavior they wanted to reinforce. By
the end of the semester, their instructor was so well conditioned that he
simply sat on the radiator throughout each class.)

If you do this right, and have not been too obvious about it, you will see
that you have controlled someone's behavior without that person's knowledge.
You will have conditioned your instructor to act in a certain way because
she or he wants the positive feeling that comes with the interest you show.

Discovering philosophy / Thomas I. White. --Brief ed.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0135080037/

---------------------------------

How Socrates Played This Game

Socrates illustrates how simple instinctual reasoning capacities and inborn
learning skills can by trial and error cause a person to learn a very
complex skills.

Through a series of questions, Socrates demonstrates that this uneducated
kid can perform complex geometric math problems. Socrates does not tell the
boy anything about geometry; he simply asks him a series of questions that
lead him to answer the question correctly.

---------------------------------

To illustrate his theory that the truths of pure reason are not discovered
afresh but are painstakingly recollected from a previous existence, Plato
makes "Socrates" elicit some apparent knowledge of geometry from an
uneducated slave-boy. This is supposed both to confirm the Platonic idea
that some knowledge is recollected from an earlier existence and to show why
the teaching of Socrates is indeed, as Socrates had claimed, really like
midewifery.

The problem which "Socrates" sets the slave is that of determining the sides
of a square of a given area. He starts by drawing a square whose sides are
two feet long, and whose area is thus four square feet, and asks how long
the sides would have to be if its area were instead eight square feet. At
first the slave ignorantly reasons that the sides would have to be twice as
long as those of the original square, ie, four feet. By drawing another
diagram, "Socrates" soon shows him that this must be wrong, since the area
of such a square would be not eight but 16 square feet. The slave is
surprised to learn that he does not know as much as he thought he did.
"Socrates" notes that at this point "we have helped him to some extent
toward finding the right answer, for now not only is he ignorant of it but
he will be quite glad to look for it". Next, with the aid of further
diagrams and by asking the right questions about them, Socrates gradually
leads the slave to work out the answer for himself: the sides of a triangle
with twice the area of the original one would have to be the same length as
a diagonal drawn across the original square---which, in effect, boils down
to the famous theorem of Pythagoras. Bingo: since Socrates never actually
told him this, the slave must have "known" it already.

This little episode does not really prove Plato's theory of recollection, as
Plato himself acknowledged. But the story does illustrate a distinctly
Socratic thesis about knowledge and how it can be imparted. Socrates's
questions to the slave are indeed leading ones (and the diagrams help, too),
yet it is nevertheless true that the slave comes to see the answer for
himself. He has not simply been told it as one might be told how many feet
there are in a yard or what the capital of Greece is. He has come to
appreciate something through his own intellectual faculties. So Socrates can
modestly make his usual claim that he has not handed over any knowledge
himself but has just acted as a midwife to bring it out of somebody else.
And there is another thing: as Socrates points out, in order for the slave
to know this piece of mathematics properly, it is not quite enough for him
to work through the example just once:

At present these opinions [of the slave's] being newly aroused, have a
dreamlike quality. But if the same questions are put to him on many
occasions and in different ways, you can see that in the end he will have a
knowledge on the subject as accurate as anybody's...
This knowledge will not come from teaching but from questioning. He will
recover it for himself.

Repeated doses of Socratic questioning are called for. In other words, what
the slave needs is exactly the sort of treatment that the real Socrates
offered the largely ungrateful Athenians. As he says in the Apology, if
anyone claims to know about goodness "I shall question him and examine him
and test him". Thus in his fanciful story of assisted recollection, Plato
has given us a striking illustration of the sort of thing Socrates was doing
when he claimed to help other people deliver their own opinions. It is as if
Socrates were drawing out and firming up some knowledge that was already
there.

http://www.btinternet.com/~socratic/excerpt.htm
 
izzy
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:23 am
 
I have seen Beduoin children use Pavlovian psychology when herding
sheep and goats. When an animal begins to stray from the path they want
it to take, they throw a small pebble at that animal and yell KHi, KHi.
Sometimes, they just yell KHi, KHi without throwing the pebble. The
animal hears the KHi, KHi, thinks a pebble is on the way, and rejoins
the flock.

The children's behavior enables them to control the flock with less
time and effort spent hunting for and throwing pebbles. BTW, the age
range of these kids is about 5 - 14 years. I have never seen adults
herding sheep or goats in the Negev or Sinai.

izzy
 
Brian Fletcher
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:56 am
 
"Immortalist" <Reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tEoRf.126165$4l5.50508@dukeread05...
[quote:18f98fc362]How to condition one of your instructors to act in a certain way, without
him or her knowing it. Here's what you do;

[1] Explain what you're doing to as many people in the class as you can.

[2] Pick the behavior that you want to reinforce-walking back and forth,
standing in a particular spot, gesturing to the class with a piece of
chalk, or whatever.

The object of the game is to administer positive reinforcement every time
your instructor performs the behavior you have chosen. Look interested,
nod your head, ask questions, take notes. When he or she stops the
behavior, go to negative reinforcement. Look bored, act confused, shuffle
your feet, look at your watch, stare out the window. When your teacher
goes back to the chosen behavior, respond positively again. After a while,
you should find your teacher doing the behavior you selected most of the
time. (One class took "being near the radiator" as the behavior they
wanted to reinforce. By the end of the semester, their instructor was so
well conditioned that he simply sat on the radiator throughout each
class.)

If you do this right, and have not been too obvious about it, you will see
that you have controlled someone's behavior without that person's
knowledge. You will have conditioned your instructor to act in a certain
way because she or he wants the positive feeling that comes with the
interest you show.

Discovering philosophy / Thomas I. White. --Brief ed.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0135080037/

---------------------------------

How Socrates Played This Game

Socrates illustrates how simple instinctual reasoning capacities and
inborn learning skills can by trial and error cause a person to learn a
very complex skills.

Through a series of questions, Socrates demonstrates that this uneducated
kid can perform complex geometric math problems. Socrates does not tell
the boy anything about geometry; he simply asks him a series of questions
that lead him to answer the question correctly.

---------------------------------

To illustrate his theory that the truths of pure reason are not discovered
afresh but are painstakingly recollected from a previous existence, Plato
makes "Socrates" elicit some apparent knowledge of geometry from an
uneducated slave-boy. This is supposed both to confirm the Platonic idea
that some knowledge is recollected from an earlier existence and to show
why the teaching of Socrates is indeed, as Socrates had claimed, really
like midewifery.

The problem which "Socrates" sets the slave is that of determining the
sides of a square of a given area. He starts by drawing a square whose
sides are two feet long, and whose area is thus four square feet, and asks
how long the sides would have to be if its area were instead eight square
feet. At first the slave ignorantly reasons that the sides would have to
be twice as long as those of the original square, ie, four feet. By
drawing another diagram, "Socrates" soon shows him that this must be
wrong, since the area of such a square would be not eight but 16 square
feet. The slave is surprised to learn that he does not know as much as he
thought he did. "Socrates" notes that at this point "we have helped him to
some extent toward finding the right answer, for now not only is he
ignorant of it but he will be quite glad to look for it". Next, with the
aid of further diagrams and by asking the right questions about them,
Socrates gradually leads the slave to work out the answer for himself: the
sides of a triangle with twice the area of the original one would have to
be the same length as a diagonal drawn across the original square---which,
in effect, boils down to the famous theorem of Pythagoras. Bingo: since
Socrates never actually told him this, the slave must have "known" it
already.

This little episode does not really prove Plato's theory of recollection,
as Plato himself acknowledged. But the story does illustrate a distinctly
Socratic thesis about knowledge and how it can be imparted. Socrates's
questions to the slave are indeed leading ones (and the diagrams help,
too), yet it is nevertheless true that the slave comes to see the answer
for himself. He has not simply been told it as one might be told how many
feet there are in a yard or what the capital of Greece is. He has come to
appreciate something through his own intellectual faculties. So Socrates
can modestly make his usual claim that he has not handed over any
knowledge himself but has just acted as a midwife to bring it out of
somebody else. And there is another thing: as Socrates points out, in
order for the slave to know this piece of mathematics properly, it is not
quite enough for him to work through the example just once:

At present these opinions [of the slave's] being newly aroused, have a
dreamlike quality. But if the same questions are put to him on many
occasions and in different ways, you can see that in the end he will have
a knowledge on the subject as accurate as anybody's...
This knowledge will not come from teaching but from questioning. He will
recover it for himself.

Repeated doses of Socratic questioning are called for. In other words,
what the slave needs is exactly the sort of treatment that the real
Socrates offered the largely ungrateful Athenians. As he says in the
Apology, if anyone claims to know about goodness "I shall question him and
examine him and test him". Thus in his fanciful story of assisted
recollection, Plato has given us a striking illustration of the sort of
thing Socrates was doing when he claimed to help other people deliver
their own opinions. It is as if Socrates were drawing out and firming up
some knowledge that was already there.

http://www.btinternet.com/~socratic/excerpt.htm
Dialectics or "drawing out that which is within others" (the Greek[/quote:18f98fc362]
definition of the word educte I believe),and is performed by both masters
and fools.

The masters soul purpose is to take a person on a journey of self discovery,
the fool, to "win friends and influence people".

BOfL
 
knucmo
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:46 am
 
Immortalist wrote:

(One class
[quote:9c04a4cca0]took "being near the radiator" as the behavior they wanted to reinforce. By
the end of the semester, their instructor was so well conditioned that he
simply sat on the radiator throughout each class.)
[/quote:9c04a4cca0]
I hope he didn't singe his arse!
 
 
Page 1 of 1    
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:21 am