On 2 Feb 2004 23:42:18 -0800, dunkers@pacbell.net (Duncan Craig)
wrote:

--- snip ----

That was not the question. They were different and neither one owed
much to the other.

Well, I believe the contrary. There was bound to be interaction and
influence. Maps travel.


The Kuang Yu Thu pre-dated
Portuguese explorations of the African coastlines and we know that
Portuguese'discoveries'of islands off of Somalia in 1490 where
definitively documented by China in 1225.

That may well be so. But what knowledge did the Portuguese have of the
Chinese knowledge of South America?

I'm not sure what you mean
by 'mapping techniques. Either a map is accurate, or not.

Whether or not a map is accurate is one thing. How it was produced,
plotted and drawn is quite another.

Which has nothing to do with the information on the map, which could
have been transmited by third parties such as the Arab or Indian
mariner-merchants.
Also, there is something obvious that supports this position: maps
travel.
If one looks at the times that were the "Age of Discovery", we find
that it was preceded by an intense level of interaction between the
nautical city-states of Europe. From Marco Polo and Conti returning
with spices, porcelein, vermicelli, the fo ti process of silk
production, to Montecorvino becoming Bishop of China in 1308, we see a
broad intimate relationship wich deepened with the Ming.
To believe there was no cartographic influence is unsupported given
the level of involvement between the oligarchy of Europe and the
Imperial throne of China.


There is a difference in what we are saying. I'm stating that the
Europeans didn't learn to make maps from the Chinese. They were making
them already and used charting techniques quite different from those
of china. You are saying that some of the INFORMATION on chinese maps
found its way onto European maps. I would not dispute that but it
probably was a two way process.


These two men, Dom Pedro (Henrys older brother) and Niccolo Da Conti, seem to be at the nexus of Chinese, Arab and European charting of the oceans. Dom Pedro
traveled for twelve years and returned to Portugal with a world map.

And since nobody but the Chinese builds cities, canals, etc etc...

Yah, OK.

Ross Clark

I wasn't inferring that they were Chinese. More likely Harrapan.

Duncan,
would you be so kind as to explain why you arrived at the Harrapan
conclusion?

Inger E

Just speculation,... given the docks and grain facilities at Lothal

Eric Stevens wrote:

One thing Menzies hasn't mentioned are the chinese figurines found in
an Irish bog some time in the 18th century. I've been trying to look
up details without success but they were mentioned in this news group
possibly five years ago.


Googling with "Chinese figurines Irish bog" on
sci.archaeology gives nothing;

with "Chinese figurines Ireland" gives this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=536d1r%24npu%40shore.shore.net&rnum=2

which contains the terms but does not say Chinese figurines
were found in an Irish bog.

So can we have your evidence please?