Alia ekspliko, supozante ke via rimarko estas ghusta, povus

[3] I can't find the word "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

[2] I'm not sure if "fari sian eblon" is an idiom. I can't tell what
it means from the literal meaning "doing one's capability".

[3] I can't find the work "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

"Rob" <exon1901@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8aac6f7f.0401191101.29401e2@posting.google.com...
Can anybody offer their own explanation on why many Brits when
speaking a language like French or Spanish attempt to put on a French
or Spanish accent, yet when a Frenchman or Spaniard is in Britain and
uses English, they very rarely put on an English sounding accent.

[en]

Speaking a foreign language with a native accent is very difficult for most
people. Maybe those French and Spaniards who are speaking English, do their
utmost best. And maybe many Britons who are speaking French or Spanish have
in fact a very English sounding accent, even though it may sound very
authentic to other Britons.

Another explanation, assuming that your observation is true, might be that
if Britons speak a foreign language it is often because they have chosen to
learn that language because they enjoy being able to speak it. French and
Spaniards on the other hand learn English usually because it is necessary
for them, but understandably most of them do not want to put too much effort
into it.

21 Jan 2004 13:11:26 +0100: LEE Sau Dan

[3] I can't find the word "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

My dictionary has the verb 'ekspliki', and translates it with (the
Dutch word for) explain. So 'ekspliko' could only mean "explanation".

"Jacques" == Jacques Guy <jguy@alphalink.com.au> writes:

21 Jan 2004 13:11:26 +0100: LEE Sau Dan

[3] I can't find the word "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

"Bertilo" == Bertilo Wennergren <bertilow@gmx.net> writes:

[2] I'm not sure if "fari sian eblon" is an idiom. I can't
tell what it means from the literal meaning "doing one's
capability".

[3] I can't find the work "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

"CHRIS" == CHRIS <tmtchris@my.netvigator.com> writes:

CHRIS> "Gerard van Wilgen" <gvanwilgen@planet.nl> Â*¶Â*g©Ã3¶lÂ¥Ã3·s»D
CHRIS> :buhmbs$40l$1@reader08.wxs.nl...

Paroli fremdan lingvon kun autentika akcento estas tre
malfacile por la plej multaj da homoj. Eble tiuj francoj kaj
hispanoj kiuj parolas la anglan, faras sian eblon. Kaj eble
multaj britoj kiuj parolas la francan au hispanan havas fakte
tre anglasonan akcenton, ech kvankam ghi sonas tre autentike al
aliaj britoj.

Alia ekspliko, supozante ke via rimarko estas ghusta, povus
esti ke se britoj parolas fremdan lingvon, tio estas ofte char
ili elektis lerni tiun lingvon char ili shatas povi paroli
ghin. Aliflanke, francoj kaj hispanoj lernas la anglan kutime
char tio estas necese por ili, sed kompreneble la plejmulto da
ili ne volas tro klopodi.

Gerard van Wilgen

CHRIS> Esperanto?

Bingo. It means:

Speaking a foreign language with authentic[1] accent is very difficult
for most people. Perhaps, those English-speaking Frenchmen and
Spaniards are trying their best [2]. Or the Britishmen who speak
French or Spanish indeed have an English accent, even though it sounds
very "authentic" to the other Britishmen.

From another point of view [3], suppose that your observation is
correct. It could be that when the Britishmen speak a foreign
language, it is he himself who chose to learn that language because he
likes the language. OTOH, Frenchmen or Spaniards learn English mostly
because they must learn it, although most of them don't want to do it.

[1] "authentic" may be better translated as "native" or "original".
[2] I'm not sure if "fari sian eblon" is an idiom. I can't tell what
it means from the literal meaning "doing one's capability".
[3] I can't find the work "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

It's really [toduzesSfOrsuZ]

(...) Is it /SfOrsuZ/ (with /O/, not /o/ ) because 'esforços' is
plural? So 'esforço' is in the same group of words as olho/olhos (
/oLu/ but /OLuS/ ), together with corpo, jogo, olho, ovo, porco and
povo? Do more words like that exist?

(And again, it amazes me that dictionaries don't mention this. Not
the ones I've seen, that is).

It's really [toduzesSfOrsuZ]

That soft /Z/ is what I often hear too. I know of no books that
acknowledge this. Perhaps it is not really voiced, but just lax
('softer' than a full [S] ).

/ or at best put an [I] (centre high unrounded) before s and S.

I added an alternative where the last s of 'esses' and the first of
'esforços' do coincide, as you suggested in your transcription. I
think you are that that sometimes (always? often?) happens, so I
added this http://rudhar.com/foneport/noteport.htm#Note20Corr to
http://rudhar.com/foneport/noteport.htm#Note20 I found a nice example
by Camane, in which both possibilities occur.

I dunno whether it's the [e~] which should be further from [E] /

On listening again, I see what you mean. That'll always be my weak
spot. There is interference from my own language too, which also has
the dictinction between /E/ and /e/, but not quite in the same way. I
also have perception difficulties with these two sounds:
http://rudhar.com/foneport/noteport.htm#Note8

or just the relatively low contrast between stressed and
unstressed syllables.

You're right. That sort of thing is also important, but is difficult
to describe and to acquire. I'll never reach perfection, I'll never
sound like a native. Trying to record a new attempt probably won't
make it much better.

In article <buhmbs$40l$1@reader08.wxs.nl>,
Gerard van Wilgen <gvanwilgen@planet.nl> wrote:

Speaking a foreign language with a native accent is very difficult for most
people. Maybe those French and Spaniards who are speaking English, do their
utmost best.

And maybe many Britons who are speaking French or Spanish have
in fact a very English sounding accent,

even though it may sound very
authentic to other Britons.

Another explanation, assuming that your observation is true, might be

Bertilo> Rather "doing one's possibility" = "doing what is
Bertilo> possible (for one)".

Then, it should be "fari sian eblaĵon". "Eblon" means capability or
possibility.

[3] I can't find the work "ekspliko". I'm assuming it's a
misspelling of "aspekto".

Bertilo> It's "ekspliko", but "ekspliko" is a somewhat unusual
Bertilo> word. Normally one uses "klarigo". The meaning is of
Bertilo> course "explanation".

Next time, I'd try "cie�io" instead, and take it for granted that the
listener/reader could relate it to the Mandarin word.

Jacques> Faut apprendre l'hexagonal mon gars. Chez nous
Jacques> "expliquer" (pron. [Eksplike]) means "to explain"

Yeah. I've forgotten that French is a prerequisite for learning
Esperanto.

This is one of the few words where my somewhat scant knowledge of
French permanently interferes with my English which I use on a daily
basis: each time I write "explanation" I have to force myself not to
write "explication" instead. Another one is the misuse of "proper" in
the meaning of "own" (that's at least a real false friend).

In article <m3n08ht17q.fsf@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de>, LEE Sau Dan wrote:

Jacques> Faut apprendre l'hexagonal mon gars. Chez nous
Jacques> "expliquer" (pron. [Eksplike]) means "to explain"

Yeah. I've forgotten that French is a prerequisite for learning
Esperanto. ;)

This is one of the few words where my somewhat scant knowledge of
French permanently interferes with my English which I use on a daily
basis: each time I write "explanation" I have to force myself not to
write "explication" instead. Another one is the misuse of "proper" in
the meaning of "own" (that's at least a real false friend).

Helmut Richter wrote:

This is one of the few words where my somewhat scant knowledge of
French permanently interferes with my English which I use on a daily
basis: each time I write "explanation" I have to force myself not to
write "explication" instead. Another one is the misuse of "proper" in
the meaning of "own" (that's at least a real false friend).

And, from German, be sure you don't write "consequent(ial)" when you
mean 'consistent',

or "respectively" when you mean 'bzw.'. Those seem to be two
problems that are never taught in English class in Germany!

In article <400FC69A.258E@worldnet.att.net>, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

Helmut Richter wrote:

This is one of the few words where my somewhat scant knowledge of
French permanently interferes with my English which I use on a daily
basis: each time I write "explanation" I have to force myself not to
write "explication" instead. Another one is the misuse of "proper" in
the meaning of "own" (that's at least a real false friend).

And, from German, be sure you don't write "consequent(ial)" when you
mean 'consistent',

You know the German definition of "konsequent"?

Konsequent heißt: Heute so, morgen so.

Inkonsequent heißt: Heute so, morgen so.

(Depends a bit on the intonation.)

or "respectively" when you mean 'bzw.'. Those seem to be two
problems that are never taught in English class in Germany!

Bureaucratic terms are sometimes hard to translate into English
without getting bureaucratic or archaic there as well. I am now using
"to wit" for "nämlich" and "albeit" for "wenn auch", which both sound
stilted and archaic in my ears but are at least correct to express the
meaning.

its position in the sentence is different: "A bzw. B" becomes "A or B,
resp.".

"beziehungsweise" has a second, wrong meaning: it replaces any
"und" in spoken language in order to give the speaker more time to
think about what he wanted to say; in American English, the same
function is achieved by starting the sentence with a "basically" that
is devoid of meaning.

Nice false friends are, of course, English loans or pseudo-loans that
have a different meaning, e.g. "handy" (mobile phone, perhaps a loan
from "handie-talkie" built in analogy to "walkie-talkie") or, less
dramatically wrong, "clever" (in English: smart, crafty, cunning, but
hardly clever).